I would love to have "Stonehenge architect" as a job title.
gosub100 4 hours ago [-]
Monolithic codebase though
1-more 1 hours ago [-]
I'm counting the liths and I'm getting a lot more than mono
Zancarius 54 minutes ago [-]
That's because I think it's more accurate to call it a megalithic codebase. :)
stymaar 1 hours ago [-]
Don't threaten me with good times.
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
It's still modular.
oumua_don17 2 hours ago [-]
And probably a prototype deployed to production!!!
oaiey 12 hours ago [-]
They really miss out on opportunities here.
sgt 8 hours ago [-]
> We offer flexible working arrangements where the role allows. This role can be based at our offices in Swindon, or worked on a hybrid pattern. You will be required to attend our Swindon offices 1 day per week.
Pretty decent flexibility though.
zeafoamrun 2 hours ago [-]
Yes but you can have a pint down at the pub on a warm summer evening with your colleagues after work. Almost makes up for it.
vanuatu 12 hours ago [-]
that is abysmal!
soupfordummies 3 hours ago [-]
36 hour work week, flexible hours, 25 paid holidays and a 10% pension though...
Ndymium 11 hours ago [-]
As a Finnish dev with 12 years of experience, I can only aspire for such salary.
ksec 11 hours ago [-]
Are you serious? Sarcasm
Don't translate well on internet.
Ndymium 2 hours ago [-]
This is what it looks like right now. Unless there's some huge economic boom coming, which I doubt.
IshKebab 11 hours ago [-]
He's serious. American programming salaries are an extreme outlier. You guys are in for a massive shock if they ever normalise.
vanuatu 3 hours ago [-]
American eng comp is commensurate with the money American tech brings in, you could even argue underpaid
stymaar 60 minutes ago [-]
Most of the “money American tech brings in” comes from the magnificent seven. US software engineering salaries are high even outside of those. In fact, it's high even in companies that are merely burning investor's money.
vanuatu 41 minutes ago [-]
there are plenty of american cos that bring in tons of money that are outside the mag7.
vc funded companies pay high so they can grow and eventually bring in lots of money, and america has the deepest vc pockets so it reaps the rewards of the biggest exits
sph 3 hours ago [-]
Comparing US and European salaries is the closest thing to comparing apples to oranges.
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
What fruit are UK salaries here?
sph 2 hours ago [-]
Red Delicious
treis 58 minutes ago [-]
Ah so terrible
nonethewiser 3 hours ago [-]
Why would they "normalize"? Do you think Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Amazon, etc. are going to relocate to the EU or something? Are all the venture capitalists going to flock to Spain?
The mechanics driving compensation arent "normal." American pay is driven by the underlying mechanics. The USA didn't just randomly win at tech.
There are real factors that could reduce US compensation, but calling that "normalization" assumes the current gap exists for no reason. It exists because the US software industry is structurally different from most of Europe.
afavour 3 hours ago [-]
> Why would they "normalize"?
Globalization? Look at manufacturing, it moved to a country where things are a lot more affordable. In a world where remote collaboration gets easier and easier and you're able to pay software engineers half the world away a lot less there's no way it wouldn't have an effect on the domestic market.
vanuatu 2 hours ago [-]
feel like that narrative has died given the return of RTO. In person work is really valuable
and the talent is just better in the US on average (mostly because of immigration!), software is so levered one good Eng can 1000x the value of a bad one
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
If demand for software developers decreases due to AI, salaries are likely to decrease as well. Take the academic world for comparison, where supply of very smart people vastly exceeds the demand.
vanuatu 2 hours ago [-]
I suspect demand for software is nearly infinitely elastic, so far we’ve seen demand and comp for engineers increase as coding agents got better
Academia for comparison doesn’t make money…maybe a better comparison is HFT? Plenty of very very smart people playing a zero sum game, yet their comp has only increased
nonethewiser 41 minutes ago [-]
I already addressed this in my comment. There are real factors that could reduce US compensation, but calling that "normalization" assumes the current gap exists for no reason.
monkey_monkey 8 hours ago [-]
Or in the next few years as AI devours the profession.
eterm 12 hours ago [-]
That's a fairly standard wage outside London for senior developers.
UK wages are not great.
siva7 11 hours ago [-]
i wouldn't call that standard wage, rather the lowest end of the spectrum where you could theoretically shop a "senior" outside of london.
And that includes London, it lists "excluding London" as £65k.
People overestimate how much senior devs in the UK earn, even after knowing they're not well paid, my usual response to hearing we should be earning £90k+ is, "well give us a job then"!
sgt 8 hours ago [-]
A friend is making about £180k / yr in London, and they bought a house recently in London. I think that's a lot, and his wife also makes a similar amount, slightly more. That seems to be the minimum, otherwise you're a renter for life. Pretty nuts.
sobiolite 3 hours ago [-]
London property is expensive, but £180k is a lot more than the "minimum". I am on half that, and I managed to buy.
stuaxo 6 hours ago [-]
Outside of Finance that's high for London.
iso1631 43 minutes ago [-]
Median property price in London is £542k [0]
Assuming a 90% mortgage that's 487k mortgage
That's two people on £70k each at a 3.5 multiple. £60k at a 4x multiple.
Two people on £180k would get you a £1.5m house, twice the average semi.
That is an extremely high salary, and very far from the minimum required to buy, even on your own. A dual £350k income is truly astonishing. You could buy most houses in London in cash after saving for 5 years.
short_sells_poo 2 hours ago [-]
What? No that will not allow you to buy "most houses in London in cash after saving for 5 years" unless you live far out of town in a tiny place and eat plain rice for 5 years, and even then it'll be long odds.
First, you'll take home slightly over half of that net of various taxes and deductions, but let's be generous and say your take-home is 200k. You live very frugally, don't go out, don't really buy anything and keep your costs at 50k a year, including rent (!). That leaves you with 150k a year, so after 5 years you have 750k. This allows you to buy a modest 2-3 bed row house with a postage stamp sized garden in one of the less desirable areas of the city.
If you want something that doesn't look like a shed, you are looking at 1 million pounds and up, more like 1.5 million. If you want in a nice area and large garden, make it 2 million.
tempfile 2 hours ago [-]
What are you smoking? The median house price in London is 500k. At 750k you can afford 77% of houses and at a million you are in the top 10%. 50k per year is also a preposterously high expenditure. Rent will be your leading expense by probably a factor of 10. You could put aside 3k a month for rent (again, totally preposterous number) and not touch the sides.
The only thing I can think of that would even come close to making a difference is having children. Then all bets are off, they can cost as much as you like.
uxcolumbo 8 hours ago [-]
As a senior dev?
What sector?
sgt 7 hours ago [-]
A product lead/architect in Finance.
philipwhiuk 8 hours ago [-]
Probably FANG or finance.
dwroberts 8 hours ago [-]
The balancing force to this though, is that cost of living outside of London is massively lower
Natfan 3 hours ago [-]
american salaries must be ridiculous if £70k (~$93.5k) is considered "abysmal(ly)" low!
as others have said, some may be in for a very rude awakening...
nonethewiser 3 hours ago [-]
$93.5K isn't abysmally low in the USA. Average is about 66k
$93.5k is abysmally low for a Senior Solutions Architect in the USA. I would expect at least $175k if not $200k+ on average. Plus stock and bonuses.
calumcl 3 hours ago [-]
This is a job for a charity - you're never getting stock + bonuses + competitive pay in a third sector job. UK pay is not near US but this is probably still median SWE pay outside tech roles and London + FAANG + others will pay closer with what you're suggesting with the mentioned bonuses/stock.
nonethewiser 2 hours ago [-]
You are explaining why the pay is what it is.
I am comparing average pay in UK/US for a senior solutions architect position.
I dont understand what your comment has to do with my comparison of pay. Mind you, the comment I replied to speculated about this comparison. Hence why I provided more specifics.
afavour 3 hours ago [-]
Stock... in Stonehenge?
I think comparing a job like this purely on salary terms misses a lot. It's a prestige job that will be the highlight of someone's CV for the rest of their career. Not to mention 25-28 days vacation.
As someone that's lived both in the US and outside of it there's no denying US salaries are top of the game. But there are a lot of other factors that go into a person's life than salary alone. Long hours in US jobs are not rare at all. I expect folks at Stonehenge are out the door at 5pm sharp.
nonethewiser 2 hours ago [-]
> I think comparing a job like this purely on salary terms misses a lot.
OK maybe. But that's how the salary compares.
Please re-read the comment I replied to. He speculated about salary differences and I gave solid numbers. You are arguing against some unspoken claim that I never made (something like "more money is always better").
vanuatu 3 hours ago [-]
For that level of experience you can prob get 200k in a MCOL area in the US, or up to 500k+ in HCOL
The rest of the world has already been in a rude awakening, talented engineers should be compensated well no matter where they happen to live
FinnKuhn 3 hours ago [-]
And this is for a 36 hour work week.
ForHackernews 3 hours ago [-]
Yes, American salaries are ridiculous in a global context. The rest of the world should demand better.
yzydserd 12 hours ago [-]
Maybe you missed the “25% discount in our shops and cafes” perk for the day you need to be in the office. Score.
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
Wait till you see UK wages, when it's the UK arm of a US firm....
blitzar 11 hours ago [-]
wait till you hear about the stock grants and vesting schedule
shalmanese 11 hours ago [-]
Be warned though, the equity you are granted will be exceedingly illiquid.
londons_explore 9 hours ago [-]
And you'll have to pay taxes on it despite it being unsellable.
Screw those things up, and those taxes will bankrupt you because they can exceed all your other earnings.
9 hours ago [-]
SLHamlet 12 hours ago [-]
RE Your predecessor
No one knows who he was, or what he was doing.
But his legacy remains hewn in the HR dock of Stonehenge.
nDRDY 10 hours ago [-]
Some say he was let go after a design error lead to some dwarves kicking over the first stonehenge.
tekchip 11 hours ago [-]
"From £64,189 p.a. depending on skills and experience"
I maintained a collection of well organized rocks as a child. Surely that gets me a bit more than base pay right?
fergie 10 hours ago [-]
Must be a rockstar
kitd 3 hours ago [-]
Good at aligning rocks with stars
Lio 8 hours ago [-]
There's got to be a way to shoehorn in a Spinal Tap reference here, I just haven't had enough coffee yet to think of it.
philipwhiuk 7 hours ago [-]
The height of the stones goes to 13!
stinkbeetle 10 hours ago [-]
I'm afraid that won't even get a foot in the door in this market. You must have at least 5 years experience managing Salisbury megaliths to meet the selection criteria.
blitzar 9 hours ago [-]
even if you grind lots of leet-stone problems?
hmokiguess 2 hours ago [-]
Stonehenge! Stonehenge! Lots of stones in a row! (chor)
...
And they moved it (Stonehenge!)
And they dragged it (Stonehenge!)
And they rolled it 46 miles from Waleeees! - Heeey (46 miles from Wales! )
And hey, at £64K per annum, you'll want a Honda Civic - a car you can trust.
madrox 13 hours ago [-]
Building a henge, are we?
kombookcha 12 hours ago [-]
You bastards, you never told me 200 miles. 200 miles in this day and age! I don't even know where I live now!
madrox 11 hours ago [-]
I wish the Christians would hurry up and get here
kombookcha 10 hours ago [-]
God, I had that entire Dress To Kill show loaded up on my old timey mp3-player along with Definite Article, Glorious and Sexie. Barely any room for music, but I was giggling my way through every day trying not to look too insane in public.
Izzard probably rewired my brain more than any other single comedian.
curtisblaine 11 hours ago [-]
Technically Stonehenge is not an henge (even the term henge comes from Stonehenge)
> Ironically, even though Stonehenge has an earthwork circle around it (the earliest phase of the monument), it isn’t officially a ‘proper’ henge, as the main ditch is external to the main bank. It has to make do with being a ‘proto-henge’.
I was slightly disappointed when I first visited Stonehenge as the standard tours keep you fairly far away and roped off.
But, I took a modestly more expensive "Inner Stones" tour a few months ago and lucked out being selected to be fully alone for a minute. It was a profound experience being in the middle of such a historic place.
Highly, highly recommended!
fanatic2pope 42 minutes ago [-]
I really enjoyed Newgrange in Ireland. It's huge, you can go inside it and as part of the tour they turn out the lights and simulate what it looks like on the solstice.
Best of all go during the summer solstice when there is free public access. It’s really quite fun.
During the the 1980s and ‘90s there were regular clashes between new age hippies and police stopping them from reaching Stonehenge during summer solstice before public access was allowed.
madaxe_again 10 hours ago [-]
I highly recommend avebury, about 20 minutes down the road. Absolutely enormous megalithic complex, huge man-made hill, and you can just wander where you wish, go hug a menhir, whatever you fancy - and there’s hardly ever more than a handful of other people there. Oh and it’s free.
TheOtherHobbes 10 hours ago [-]
You must have gone at a quiet time. Avebury can be absolutely heaving in the Summer and on the traditional pagan quarter days.
It also has a pub, a restaurant, a gift shop, a museum founded by a marmalade magnate, and if you're really rich you can buy one of the houses inside the circle.
Generally a happier experience than Stonehenge.
If megalithic rocks are your thing there's also the nearby West Kennet Longbarrow, which is far more likely to be deserted, especially at night, although if you go on the quarter days (nights) you'll probably meet weirdly-dressed people lighting candles and throwing spells around.
jbaber 7 hours ago [-]
West Kennet Longbarrow's also appropriately spooky. I've been there with people too scared to stay inside.
Quarrel 13 hours ago [-]
Damnit. No WFH option.
teaearlgraycold 13 hours ago [-]
Unless Stonehenge is your home
andrewstuart 11 hours ago [-]
“Work From Henge”
mattoxic 12 hours ago [-]
I would have thought you'd need to be a druid
flurdy 4 hours ago [-]
Ask one of the Ylvis brothers
VikingCoder 3 hours ago [-]
Does this seem like a Netflix show to anyone else?
bobmcnamara 3 hours ago [-]
Experience?
I'm the head of pebble hedge!
xtorol 13 hours ago [-]
Due to a typo in the paperwork sent to HR by the hiring manager, they are only paying 64,189 pence. The director was last heard chastising HR, saying "It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel."
hmokiguess 2 hours ago [-]
Next up: Forward Deployed Wizard
rpaddock 6 hours ago [-]
In the fall of 2023 I tried to visit Stonehenge.
We arrived at 15:15 local time.
I was riding in the passenger seat.
There was a male and female police officer standing at the side of the road, beside a "Road Closed" sign blocking the entrance.
The male police officer came to my window and started yelling in my face:
"We are closed!! Come back another day!!!"
I knew it would be pointless to argue with this a-hole and there was no other day in my schedule that we could come back. So we left and never got to see it.
Do these old rocks get tired at three in the afternoon or what?
I'll be sending this Head of Stonehenge an email about the experiance...
pnut 4 hours ago [-]
Sounds like VIP/head of state visit and terrible communication skills.
rjmunro 3 hours ago [-]
Last entry is at 3pm in winter because it takes a while to queue then catch the shuttle bus etc. and it gets dark, so closes at 5pm.
But if there were actual Police, not just English Heritage security, it sounds like something strange was happening that day, like a VIP visit or something.
It gets so busy that it's recommended to book a timeslot in advance on the website, even if you are a member and don't have to pay.
AlotOfReading 3 hours ago [-]
The stones don't get tired, but the humans running the visitor center and keeping the tourists in line do. Operating a highly visited historical site like Stonehenge takes significantly more work than people realize.
3 hours ago [-]
throw310822 10 hours ago [-]
Better than Head of Easter Island.
onion2k 12 hours ago [-]
"If I get the role, what will my budget for repairs be?"
manarth 6 hours ago [-]
Don't forget the twice-a-year realignment when the clocks change for daylight saving
zuzululu 13 hours ago [-]
really wish i keot my british passport
faangguyindia 13 hours ago [-]
i know quite a few dev ops and frontend guys who were employed for last 4 years and are now driving taxi in india.
readthenotes1 13 hours ago [-]
"Job type
Permanent"
I bet they enjoyed typing that in.
"5,000 years+ -- depends on you"
Might be another option if it were freeform text
12_throw_away 10 minutes ago [-]
I assumed "permanent" was industry jargon for "the ideal candidate will be sealed in the Pandorica for all time", but it's something I'd probably clarify during the phone screen.
russellbeattie 12 hours ago [-]
I caught a live stream of Stonehenge during this past Winter Solstice (it was cloudy, naturally) and the streamer provided a bit of trivia that I hadn't heard before:
George Washington's English ancestors, specifically Sir Lawrence Washington, were the owners of the West Amesbury Estate in Wiltshire, England, which included the land where the ancient Stonehenge monument sits. (Via Google)
If you hadn't that before, welcome to the "Huh, that's a funny coincidence" club.
hdgvhicv 11 hours ago [-]
Rich people have lots of descenders who tend to be rich.
Washington was a wealthy landowner in the British Empire, hardly surprising his ancestors were wealthy landowners.
robotresearcher 10 hours ago [-]
What’s it a coincidence with?
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
"Rich man had a rich family, how queer"
lifestyleguru 9 hours ago [-]
Land owners also had married within family so I you checked their family tree two persons could be simultaneously spouses and cousins. That's a coincidence!
13 hours ago [-]
Mistletoe 12 hours ago [-]
Honestly feels like a dream job. Imagine your ancestors smiling down on you if you are from Britain or just human.
kijin 12 hours ago [-]
Considering the location, I would imagine that the ancestors prefer to haunt the barrows at night. Still a dream job if that's your thing. Just watch out for the occasional Nazgûl. :)
nephihaha 2 hours ago [-]
Or Nigel. No one knows who they were or what they were doing...
_alternator_ 13 hours ago [-]
On the front page? LLMs got lots of us programmers dreaming of leaving the profession, I suppose.
tyre 13 hours ago [-]
Is this not super cool regardless? Even if you love tech, was a fun little gem.
celsius1414 13 hours ago [-]
Missed opportunity to say they’re ‘looking for a rock star to lead our team!’
peebee67 12 hours ago [-]
They pretty much are, too. It certainly reads like some tech job ads. Rock star with 30 years experience. Graduate wages.
tkocmathla 11 hours ago [-]
The median income in the UK is currently sitting at £2,627 / week or £31,524 / year [1]. This is advertising more than double that at £64,189, not quite graduate wages!
Due to advancements in calendar technology made in the last couple hundreds of years, the profile for this role has changed and tasks are now different.
laszlojamf 13 hours ago [-]
"a solid leader who can carry the weight of our massive responsibility"
chappi42 12 hours ago [-]
They don't look for rock stars. English heritage wants ideology:
"You can connect with others through our EDI networks as a member or ally. These include Ethnic Diversity, Faith & Belief, Social Equity, LGBTQ+, Neurodivergence, Age, Disability and Gender Health and Wellbeing."
(Should have mentioned Talibans, handy to blow up misplaced stones)
kitd 11 hours ago [-]
Why is that ideology?
chappi42 10 hours ago [-]
DEI, "woke ideology". It is not ideology in a strict sense.
kitd 6 hours ago [-]
True. I'd say "anti-DEI" is the real ideology.
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
Are you ok?
chappi42 10 hours ago [-]
What do you mean?
applfanboysbgon 6 hours ago [-]
Going off on unprompted rambling about 'woke ideology' and the Taliban in response to a random pun makes you appear, to observers, deeply mentally unwell.
pants2 13 hours ago [-]
Sounds like a very cool job, and not sure about the UK job market, but seems to be wildly underpaid for the qualifications!
kristianc 12 hours ago [-]
This, shockingly, is actually quite well paid considering for the UK.
Lead Data Scientist for the UK Government is currently advertising for a salary of £57,670 - £67,500.
Not disagreeing, but it's also worth something to know, and say, that you are in charge of Stonehenge.
sva_ 13 hours ago [-]
Must be an extraordinary honor to be in charge of a bunch of rocks over there.
cyclopeanutopia 11 hours ago [-]
Wait until you learn some people are swapping bits all day long, isn't that crazy?
kefabean 11 hours ago [-]
I call them Bit Shepherds
650REDHAIR 12 hours ago [-]
Yes?
loeg 13 hours ago [-]
This is like a 90th percentile UK salary.
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
In reality, because the "salaries" higher than this aren't paying in PAYE.
bdavbdav 7 hours ago [-]
I’m not sure that’s strictly true. I think you’ve got to go a long way up the salary ladder until you’re in a situation where you can command more complicated arrangements (certainly when working for larger companies)
zipy124 4 hours ago [-]
no. Most UK income statistics are based on total taxable income, not salary.
YZF 12 hours ago [-]
36 hours per week. 25 days vacation (going to 28). Pension contributions. You can buy extra leave. Epic location, fun job, decent salary for the UK (where e.g. you don't pay for healthcare)...
ifjfkfkfkfj 2 hours ago [-]
> you don't pay for healthcare
It is bloody expensive, if you want life saving surgery now, not in two years!
robotresearcher 10 hours ago [-]
You do pay for healthcare, from the taxes on that salary.
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
Fun fact, so do Americans, just they don't get the service for it!
wyclif 1 hours ago [-]
Fun fact, so do Brits. Just try scheduling a procedure with the NHS and check the wait time.
philipwhiuk 35 minutes ago [-]
Urgency based on medical reasons rather than financial wealth.
Crazy huh?
Tepix 11 hours ago [-]
Yeah, the 25 days of vacation are a bit disappointing, in Germany 30 days are standard.
wyclif 1 hours ago [-]
Talked to a German guy who was here on holiday recently. When I told him that in the US it's typical to get two weeks vacation when starting a new job, you should have seen his eyes bug out. It was hilarious.
tikkabhuna 11 hours ago [-]
Is that including or excluding bank holidays? In the UK, 25 days excluding the 8 bank holidays is pretty standard.
ascorbic 10 hours ago [-]
This is a decent salary for a heritage job. It is a very poorly-paid sector. On building sites with archaeological excavations, the person driving the digger is likely to be paid more than the archaeologists, who probably have postgraduate degrees.
jrflo 12 hours ago [-]
I'm not in the UK, but from what I understand that's actually decent. US salaries, particularly in tech, are wildly higher than in most of Europe.
oaiey 12 hours ago [-]
UK tech salaries are also not high. And 64k pounds for a history and/or business major is quite right. Do not forget also: history is a overrun study with many people afterwards driving taxis
phyzix5761 12 hours ago [-]
Don't forget to deduct the 25% effective tax rate.
this isnt all that *bad for something in the conservation / heritage / ngo sector
edit: *obviously its not a wonderful salary, but for the sector....well I've seen worse.
moomin 11 hours ago [-]
The charity sector rarely pays well.
swarnie 13 hours ago [-]
Just a smidge over $63k after tax and before gibbs.
The job market over here is shocking.
loeg 13 hours ago [-]
This is equivalent to $85,700 USD, not $63k.
theodric 13 hours ago [-]
Read it again. $63k after tax and before "gibbs" i.e. government-provided social distributions.
hdgvhicv 10 hours ago [-]
63k after tax in the us is about 86k before tax, so about the same.
Although in the us you have to pay for healthcare on top of that.
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
You pay for a private healthcare plan, and the US government pays tax money to the same healthcare companies to prop up the system.
loeg 2 hours ago [-]
You're double-counting the individual.
dismalaf 13 hours ago [-]
Lol in Canada 64,000 pounds = $120K CAD which would put you in the 92nd income percentile.
ai-roundup 13 hours ago [-]
[dead]
y-curious 13 hours ago [-]
Especially considering minimum wage “salary” in the UK is ~24k GBP, 64k is nothing imo. They call it the “wage squeeze”
UnfitFootprint 13 hours ago [-]
Average full time salary is 40k GBP. It’s +50% on the average which seems right for a non profit organisation in a non exec role
jacknews 12 hours ago [-]
It is a leadership role though.
I don't know how many staff there are, but it's surely one of EH's most important locations.
laurencerowe 11 hours ago [-]
The UK has had substantially less wage inequality than the US for a long time. The UK “wage squeeze” is median/minimum wage which has gone from the 1/3 to 2/3 since ~2000 as the minimum wage has been raised. But the relevant difference here would be around 90th percentile/median which is 1.85 in UK vs 2.4 in US and even higher in California.
hdgvhicv 11 hours ago [-]
And over time the ratio is similar - 90%ile about 1.9 times median for the last 30 years.
loeg 13 hours ago [-]
This is like 90th percentile UK salary. It's good pay for the UK, a poor country.
gbro3n 13 hours ago [-]
The UK is still the 5th biggest economy in the world. Public infrastructure feels like it's under huge strain however, and there is also a big problem with inequality, which seems to be changing under Labour, albeit slowly.
somenameforme 12 hours ago [-]
Raw economy size can be misleading in two ways. The value of a dollar is much less or much more depending on where you're at. So an economy of 10 shekels might mean an economy of 100 widgets, or it might mean an economy of 1 widget. Purchasing power parity (PPP) attempts to account for that. The second is that economies are largely a product of population. An economy of a million making a million shekels is quite a bit different than an economy of 10 making a million shekels, so you also want to look at per capita values. Even both of these adjustments combined [1] can be extremely misleading (see: Ireland and many other places...), but they provide at least a less unreasonable basis for comparison than nominal dollars. And the UK is currently 30th there.
I think GDP per capita can also be misleading though - the GDP per capita of Luxembourg or Brunei is high, but they're such small countries that it's kind of irrelevant.
Setting aside the special cases (tiny, oil money, weird finance sectors, tax havens etc) there's basically a handful of countries which are clearly doing something right - the US, Taiwan, the north-eastern European countries (Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden). Most of the other "developed countries" are sitting in the same sort of GDP per capita range of $65-$75k. Ranking these isn't so meaningful - the difference between the UK and France is only 1.5%.
somenameforme 5 hours ago [-]
Maybe! Our modern economic system are essentially driven by endless debt, and that only began in 1971 after the end of Bretton Woods. Even Germany has recently hopped on the debt train. Personally I not only don't think it's sustainable, and if not then it may well end up being one of the shortest lived economic experiments ever.
Something to keep in mind is that in the 70s digital tech also started to come into its own and that basically provided a massive economic boon to countries worldwide, but especially in the US. And so the concept of endless infinite exponential growth, as the current experiment effectively requires, was coincidentally paired alongside an era that made that briefly seem possible.
But now that that era is fading, the consequences of our actions are catching up to us. For instance in the US interest on the debt is now about 3% of the GDP, and the debt itself about 120% of GDP. And as faith in the debt falters, that will increase exponentially because rates for borrowing (which is how the government 'prints' money) will increase, due to reduced demand paired with increases in supply for such.
--
Basically instead of looking at GDP or whatever, I'd look to things on life contentment, optimism, and so on. If those are positive, then I think a government must be doing something right. If those are negative, then who cares what this metric or that says?
kristianc 12 hours ago [-]
Inquality has barely moved per Gini in the last thirty years, and GDP is very misleading.
Until it's destroyed by the people who destroyed the country last time.
Seems they are hell-bent on getting rid of them
geysersam 13 hours ago [-]
Let's not be delusional. The UK is not a poor country, and 64K is low by US tech standards but it's good by any other measure.
loeg 12 hours ago [-]
The UK is poor and sprinting as fast as it can towards being poorer.
leoedin 7 hours ago [-]
This is such a misuse of the word poor. Have you actually been to a poor country?
The UK is poorer than the US - sure. But it's wealthier than most other countries in the world. Not just in terms of GDP per capita or average household wealth, but also in infrastructure terms - the cumulative effect of being a wealthy industrialised country for so long is a huge amount of infrastructure.
I think it's fair to say that UK wealth growth has slowed at the same time as many other countries have caught up. So the UK is no longer the leader it once was. But that's very different from saying it's a poor country. It's just not.
geysersam 4 hours ago [-]
By your definition 95% of the world population live in 'poor' countries. I guess if that's how you want to use the word that's up to you, but people outside of your bubble will literally not understand what you are saying.
kristianc 12 hours ago [-]
If the UK were a US state, its GDP per capita would rank it roughly on par with or just below Mississippi, making it the poorest state in the union.
aEJ04Izw5HYm 11 hours ago [-]
While true from a per capita equivalency and too close for comfort, the median net worth of an adult in the UK is roughly $150,000, while in Mississippi it's $15,000. Also, its public services are provided, which substantially affects the quality of life.
bpodgursky 12 hours ago [-]
It's not a "good" wage in the US. It's exactly median.
Which is fine, someone has to be median, but really underwhelming for the (presumably highly-educated and talented) head of the #1 national historical monument.
mrwh 12 hours ago [-]
It's £64K, not $64K (which is indeed about the median in the US). So, not bad.
bpodgursky 12 hours ago [-]
Ah I misread that, but $86k is still not good for a highly educated professional.
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
Highly educated?
It's a leadership role, there's no education requirements on it.
oaiey 12 hours ago [-]
It is good for a professional with specialization in history.
hdgvhicv 10 hours ago [-]
Superintendent of Mount Rushmore is paid $125–160k
enraged_camel 13 hours ago [-]
Yeah, but 25 days holiday plus bank holidays means you're working like half the year at most. ;)
dylan604 12 hours ago [-]
And don't you knock of at lunch on Fridays anyways? So that's like a 4 day work week, because let's face it, you're not really doing anything on the day you're knocking off early anyways. See you at the pub!
marysol5 10 hours ago [-]
Read-Only-Fridays, and having a pub lunch so you're not doing much all afternoon anyway!
green_wheel 13 hours ago [-]
What's your role?
I'm a CSO.
Oh nice, Strategy or Security?
Stonehenge.
quuxplusone 13 hours ago [-]
"Just to be clear, you are saying you manage a hedge fund, right?"
"Yeah, a henge fund."
"Hedge fund."
"Henge fund."
"Hedge."
"Henge."
"...I think we're on the same page."
appplication 12 hours ago [-]
This had me giggling, thank you
bfeist 13 hours ago [-]
Heard of it?
smashah 13 hours ago [-]
Stonehenge would be a great AI Lab name!
Rendered at 17:13:07 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
[1]: https://www.nps.gov/jotr/learn/nature/skull-rock-trail.htm
* Must provide own sickle, and robes.
Somewhat less eminent job title though.
Pretty decent flexibility though.
vc funded companies pay high so they can grow and eventually bring in lots of money, and america has the deepest vc pockets so it reaps the rewards of the biggest exits
The mechanics driving compensation arent "normal." American pay is driven by the underlying mechanics. The USA didn't just randomly win at tech.
There are real factors that could reduce US compensation, but calling that "normalization" assumes the current gap exists for no reason. It exists because the US software industry is structurally different from most of Europe.
Globalization? Look at manufacturing, it moved to a country where things are a lot more affordable. In a world where remote collaboration gets easier and easier and you're able to pay software engineers half the world away a lot less there's no way it wouldn't have an effect on the domestic market.
and the talent is just better in the US on average (mostly because of immigration!), software is so levered one good Eng can 1000x the value of a bad one
Academia for comparison doesn’t make money…maybe a better comparison is HFT? Plenty of very very smart people playing a zero sum game, yet their comp has only increased
UK wages are not great.
People overestimate how much senior devs in the UK earn, even after knowing they're not well paid, my usual response to hearing we should be earning £90k+ is, "well give us a job then"!
Assuming a 90% mortgage that's 487k mortgage
That's two people on £70k each at a 3.5 multiple. £60k at a 4x multiple.
Two people on £180k would get you a £1.5m house, twice the average semi.
[0] https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=2025-...
First, you'll take home slightly over half of that net of various taxes and deductions, but let's be generous and say your take-home is 200k. You live very frugally, don't go out, don't really buy anything and keep your costs at 50k a year, including rent (!). That leaves you with 150k a year, so after 5 years you have 750k. This allows you to buy a modest 2-3 bed row house with a postage stamp sized garden in one of the less desirable areas of the city.
If you want something that doesn't look like a shed, you are looking at 1 million pounds and up, more like 1.5 million. If you want in a nice area and large garden, make it 2 million.
The only thing I can think of that would even come close to making a difference is having children. Then all bets are off, they can cost as much as you like.
What sector?
as others have said, some may be in for a very rude awakening...
$93.5k is abysmally low for a Senior Solutions Architect in the USA. I would expect at least $175k if not $200k+ on average. Plus stock and bonuses.
I am comparing average pay in UK/US for a senior solutions architect position.
I dont understand what your comment has to do with my comparison of pay. Mind you, the comment I replied to speculated about this comparison. Hence why I provided more specifics.
I think comparing a job like this purely on salary terms misses a lot. It's a prestige job that will be the highlight of someone's CV for the rest of their career. Not to mention 25-28 days vacation.
As someone that's lived both in the US and outside of it there's no denying US salaries are top of the game. But there are a lot of other factors that go into a person's life than salary alone. Long hours in US jobs are not rare at all. I expect folks at Stonehenge are out the door at 5pm sharp.
OK maybe. But that's how the salary compares.
Please re-read the comment I replied to. He speculated about salary differences and I gave solid numbers. You are arguing against some unspoken claim that I never made (something like "more money is always better").
The rest of the world has already been in a rude awakening, talented engineers should be compensated well no matter where they happen to live
Screw those things up, and those taxes will bankrupt you because they can exceed all your other earnings.
No one knows who he was, or what he was doing.
But his legacy remains hewn in the HR dock of Stonehenge.
I maintained a collection of well organized rocks as a child. Surely that gets me a bit more than base pay right?
...
And they moved it (Stonehenge!)
And they dragged it (Stonehenge!)
And they rolled it 46 miles from Waleeees! - Heeey (46 miles from Wales! )
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klJhWr_FTaE
Izzard probably rewired my brain more than any other single comedian.
> Ironically, even though Stonehenge has an earthwork circle around it (the earliest phase of the monument), it isn’t officially a ‘proper’ henge, as the main ditch is external to the main bank. It has to make do with being a ‘proto-henge’.
https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/what-is...
But, I took a modestly more expensive "Inner Stones" tour a few months ago and lucked out being selected to be fully alone for a minute. It was a profound experience being in the middle of such a historic place.
Highly, highly recommended!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange
During the the 1980s and ‘90s there were regular clashes between new age hippies and police stopping them from reaching Stonehenge during summer solstice before public access was allowed.
It also has a pub, a restaurant, a gift shop, a museum founded by a marmalade magnate, and if you're really rich you can buy one of the houses inside the circle.
Generally a happier experience than Stonehenge.
If megalithic rocks are your thing there's also the nearby West Kennet Longbarrow, which is far more likely to be deserted, especially at night, although if you go on the quarter days (nights) you'll probably meet weirdly-dressed people lighting candles and throwing spells around.
I'm the head of pebble hedge!
I was riding in the passenger seat.
There was a male and female police officer standing at the side of the road, beside a "Road Closed" sign blocking the entrance.
The male police officer came to my window and started yelling in my face:
"We are closed!! Come back another day!!!"
I knew it would be pointless to argue with this a-hole and there was no other day in my schedule that we could come back. So we left and never got to see it.
Do these old rocks get tired at three in the afternoon or what?
I'll be sending this Head of Stonehenge an email about the experiance...
But if there were actual Police, not just English Heritage security, it sounds like something strange was happening that day, like a VIP visit or something.
It gets so busy that it's recommended to book a timeslot in advance on the website, even if you are a member and don't have to pay.
I bet they enjoyed typing that in.
"5,000 years+ -- depends on you"
Might be another option if it were freeform text
George Washington's English ancestors, specifically Sir Lawrence Washington, were the owners of the West Amesbury Estate in Wiltshire, England, which included the land where the ancient Stonehenge monument sits. (Via Google)
If you hadn't that before, welcome to the "Huh, that's a funny coincidence" club.
Washington was a wealthy landowner in the British Empire, hardly surprising his ancestors were wealthy landowners.
[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor...
EDIT: £2,627 / month, not week!
Not sure how you got 31,524
"You can connect with others through our EDI networks as a member or ally. These include Ethnic Diversity, Faith & Belief, Social Equity, LGBTQ+, Neurodivergence, Age, Disability and Gender Health and Wellbeing."
(Should have mentioned Talibans, handy to blow up misplaced stones)
Lead Data Scientist for the UK Government is currently advertising for a salary of £57,670 - £67,500.
https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/jobs.cgi?jco...
Project manager on 65-85k
https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=a43416327745431e
Lead data scientist 100-110k
https://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/lead-data-scientist/56925078
Neither of those are London based.
It is bloody expensive, if you want life saving surgery now, not in two years!
Crazy huh?
Calculator: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/estimate-paye-take-home-pay/y...
edit: *obviously its not a wonderful salary, but for the sector....well I've seen worse.
The job market over here is shocking.
Although in the us you have to pay for healthcare on top of that.
I don't know how many staff there are, but it's surely one of EH's most important locations.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...
Setting aside the special cases (tiny, oil money, weird finance sectors, tax havens etc) there's basically a handful of countries which are clearly doing something right - the US, Taiwan, the north-eastern European countries (Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden). Most of the other "developed countries" are sitting in the same sort of GDP per capita range of $65-$75k. Ranking these isn't so meaningful - the difference between the UK and France is only 1.5%.
Something to keep in mind is that in the 70s digital tech also started to come into its own and that basically provided a massive economic boon to countries worldwide, but especially in the US. And so the concept of endless infinite exponential growth, as the current experiment effectively requires, was coincidentally paired alongside an era that made that briefly seem possible.
But now that that era is fading, the consequences of our actions are catching up to us. For instance in the US interest on the debt is now about 3% of the GDP, and the debt itself about 120% of GDP. And as faith in the debt falters, that will increase exponentially because rates for borrowing (which is how the government 'prints' money) will increase, due to reduced demand paired with increases in supply for such.
--
Basically instead of looking at GDP or whatever, I'd look to things on life contentment, optimism, and so on. If those are positive, then I think a government must be doing something right. If those are negative, then who cares what this metric or that says?
https://ifs.org.uk/data-items/gini-coefficient
Seems they are hell-bent on getting rid of them
The UK is poorer than the US - sure. But it's wealthier than most other countries in the world. Not just in terms of GDP per capita or average household wealth, but also in infrastructure terms - the cumulative effect of being a wealthy industrialised country for so long is a huge amount of infrastructure.
I think it's fair to say that UK wealth growth has slowed at the same time as many other countries have caught up. So the UK is no longer the leader it once was. But that's very different from saying it's a poor country. It's just not.
Which is fine, someone has to be median, but really underwhelming for the (presumably highly-educated and talented) head of the #1 national historical monument.
It's a leadership role, there's no education requirements on it.
I'm a CSO.
Oh nice, Strategy or Security?
Stonehenge.
"Yeah, a henge fund."
"Hedge fund."
"Henge fund."
"Hedge."
"Henge."
"...I think we're on the same page."