Jetnet Acquires ADS-B Exchange, a community-fed ADSB
dmd 11 days ago [-]
Did their acquisition price factor in the % of people who will stop feeding because of this? It's one thing to feed a free open source project it's another to give free labor to Silversmith Capital.
mindcrime 11 days ago [-]
I mean, if I were providing one of these feeds, I'd probably shut it down and look for (or create) a new community-driven alternative.
capableweb 11 days ago [-]
I chose to contribute my collected ADS-B data to ADS-B Exchange rather than Flightradar24 just because ADS-B Exchange was community driven and not owned by a company.

I just turned off my sharing and looking for alternatives. If anyone know of any, please share them :)

LVDOVICVS 11 days ago [-]
I just heard about

"The OpenSky Network is a non-profit community-based receiver network which has been continuously collecting air traffic surveillance data since 2013. Unlike other networks, OpenSky keeps the complete unfiltered raw data and makes it accessible to academic and institutional researchers."

nerpderp82 11 days ago [-]
Operyl 11 days ago [-]
Man, the blockchain being inserted wherever it doesn't need to be is becoming rampant on HN, isn't it? Humor me, though, how would that work and why would the cost of running a "blockchain," both in terms of money and energy wasted, be better than a simple feed aggregator?
SV_BubbleTime 11 days ago [-]
I assumed that was satire or sarcasm.
kelnos 11 days ago [-]
So did I, before I read the entire reply chain :(
Operyl 11 days ago [-]
Given his entire chain above your comment, it was a serious comment.
nerpderp82 11 days ago [-]
A signed append only log, distributed with webtorrent would provide provenance and distribution. This would allow for not having to have dedicated infrastructure for collection.

One could also use USENET and get rid of the garbage will killfiles.

harshreality 11 days ago [-]
There are thousands of people contributing ADS-B data many times a minute.

You can't just "create a blockchain". Blockchains depend on hashing power for security. A new niche chain provides very little security, and a rich person like Elon could set up a hash cluster to out-hash everyone else and block updates for his jets.

In order to fund hashing power and security, there has to be economic incentive for the miners. That requires some token, which ultimately requires everyone who submits updates to pay a fee.

The reasons I and many other people provide ADS-B data to aggregation sites is that it's free (minus the one-time cost of the hardware) and I get something in return: a free upgraded account which, depending on the site, enables historical flight searches. If I lost money every time I provided data, it wouldn't make any sense to continue.

I also wouldn't want to have to download an entire (or a good chunk of a) blockchain or raw data ledger to check history for a tail number. That's what I'd have to do if it were truly decentralized. Ledgers do not provide efficient indexing.

nerpderp82 10 days ago [-]
It would be data signed by a key and added to a torrent swarm. This would only handle data collection, someone would still need to sync the swarm and process/visualize it.
Operyl 11 days ago [-]
And who maintains the signing keys? It's just as centralized, with tons more complexity..

EDIT: Regardless, the point I'm making is this is just way more work for something that really doesn't need a blockchain.

nerpderp82 11 days ago [-]
It really isn't. Everyone hopping on to the next is going to reproduce the same problem. Distributing the data over webtorrent from the beginning will make data access democratic.
fudgefactorfive 11 days ago [-]
Can you explain how you'd use Webtorrent to synchronize a large dataset that's updated in realtime? If you mean to get a P2P transport wouldn't WebRTC be what you're aiming for?

I'm genuinely curious but isn't Webtorrent just using WebRTC to join a Torrent Swarm? Torrents are fundamentally immutable, the identifier is a static hash of the content of the torrent. That would mean producing a new torrent for each new data point or chunk of data points only to then submit that hash to a WebRTC based connection to again fetch torrent content?

Genuinely curious, I'm interested in how torrent swarms can be used for novell applications.

Operyl 11 days ago [-]
Something that happens once in a blue moon, for data that is already in multiple locations (to varying degrees of precision).. You've failed to sell it to me, I'll continue to contribute to the simpler solutions that won't need a crap ton of extra work, thanks.
nerpderp82 11 days ago [-]
Not advocating you stop or that your solution is wrong.

If you are going to log, I'd look into CF offerings.

mike_d 11 days ago [-]
I helped out a bit with ADSBExchange. The all volunteer staff were completely blindsided by this. The founder just took a payday and ran.

For what it is worth, I don't actually know what the PE company bought. I guess the historical data and a rack full of servers - but the staff, community, and service are moving elsewhere.

nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
One would think there would be recent lessons to be learned on how to vaporize value in connection with an asset-light acquisition… Actually, the guy who sold probably did learn those lessons. Best of luck to the buyer, I suppose.
kuschku 11 days ago [-]
Sounds just like freenode 2.0. Some investor buying the domain, and everyone else just moving on to a new project.
account42 10 days ago [-]
I think the Freenode takeover could have worked without loosing the majority of the channels if rasengan hadn't tried so hard to kill the network. After all, Freenode was a free service people were making use of and as long as it was run somewhat competently most wouldn't have cared too much about operator drama.

Here it feels more like people are providing unpaid work (by running receivers) and who in their right mind would continue doing that for a commercial entity.

Kye 10 days ago [-]
>> "Here it feels more like people are providing unpaid work (by running receivers) and who in their right mind would continue doing that for a commercial entity."

Most people with a smartphone. I do enjoy more precise GPS even if it means Apple and Google are soaking up Wi-fi hotspot info to improve triangulation. I think the difference is most people don't realize they're feeding this info to companies.

gkbrk 10 days ago [-]
You can run Tower Collector and feed that data to Mozilla and OpenCellID instead.
tpmx 11 days ago [-]
The founder is Dan Streufert. (From the linked press release.)
0x457 11 days ago [-]
Can't blame the founder, though. I would have done the same.
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
Really good to know!! I'll join them.
totoglazer 11 days ago [-]
Where to?
dx034 11 days ago [-]
Opensky seems to be the only non profit network left?
fires 10 days ago [-]
It's the only one that was always a non-profit by the way - the fact that ADSBX was an LLC should have been a giveaway, also to the employees/volunteers.
KirillPanov 11 days ago [-]
This would be a great use for nostr.

Instead of everybody uploading their data to one dude who can sell out, instead flood-fill it. We're not talking about a lot of data here.

mike_d 11 days ago [-]
> We're not talking about a lot of data here

It is actually a massive amount of data. Gigabits per second that need to be aggregated, sorted by geographic region, fed into multilateration systems, and cleaning the output before it can be shown on a map.

dgacmu 11 days ago [-]
Some are likely to, but remember that feeding is a mutual exchange - sites that you feed to generally give you a free, no ads account. I feed both ADS-B exchange and flightaware for this reason. Although I will admit that the flight aware app is more useful unless you're interested in unfiltered data. Contributing to an unfiltered source is one motivation, but it's one of several.
prova_modena 11 days ago [-]
ADS-B Exchange used to have another incentive to feed in the form of free API access, subject to certain limits and for noncommercial use only. They stopped that a year or two ago, I believe because various commercial operations kept abusing it.
jdubner 11 days ago [-]
Not true -- I currently access the API to obtain an aggregated feed in exchange for my feeding ADSB-X with my receivers (1090 and 978 MHz). You have to ask for access and it's poorly documented but it works and feeds my own local tracking site running 24.7.
prova_modena 11 days ago [-]
They specifically removed the text on the website saying you can get API access from feeding, replaced this with a link to their paid RapidAPI (under "Enthusiast Usage Terms") and no longer automatically give you API access with an active feeder key. That seems like a pretty clear message even if they made an exception for you. Besides, how long do you think your free access will last under the new ownership?

EDIT: In their FAQ it currently states: "In very limited situations may choose to allow non-profit, research, or educational entities access to the historical data or API at reduced fee, in these situations such entities must meet all other requirements including hosting a feeder. API pricing is a fraction of the cost of ADS-B data available anywhere else." To me that is quite different than their previous policy of providing automatic noncommercial API access to anyone hosting a feeder. It removes an incentive to feed and discourages use of the API.

jvanvleet 11 days ago [-]
This is my situation as well. If you travel a lot, having something light Flightaware giving you more detailed information about what is really happening with your flight or airport is wonderful and starting a feed was a fun way to get more features.
sokoloff 11 days ago [-]
I have a basic (free) Flightaware account. I can't imagine anything relevant to commercial airliner travel that I'd need that I don't get from that free account. Is there something I'm missing?

(I totally get the fun aspect and it's fairly cheap to put a receiver up.)

Scoundreller 11 days ago [-]
Lots of interesting stuff outside of commercial airliners.

Flightaware (and FR24) censors (for a fee).

I remember emailing a journo covering a protest to look up and observe the plane circling around.

But ultimately they’re different services: Adsb is vessel focussed, while FA/FR24 are flight# focussed.

Want to find out what routes your aircraft typically flies? Adsb will be the place to check.

Want to see if your flight is typically on-time? FA/FR24.

Dracophoenix 10 days ago [-]
> Flightaware (and FR24) censors (for a fee).

Are there any services you're aware of that don't censor?

blitzar 10 days ago [-]
ADSBExchange ... that is why I contributed.
james_pm 11 days ago [-]
From FR24, you get two years of historical data for starters.
dgacmu 11 days ago [-]
the only value for me is having no ads. which is, in fact, something i value, but not at the $80/month it would take to subscribe for. But it's worth sending my feed.
samstave 11 days ago [-]
Need a list of all private jet tail numbers from DAVOS/WEF and have a tracking system for those... like the Elon tracker
Zigurd 11 days ago [-]
That's part of why an unfiltered ADS-B exchange is valuable. You can track senior executives and try to get ahead of the news. Flying in to Davos is pretty uninteresting compared with travel to factories, competitors' offices, mining operations, international travel, etc. It gives you an idea what executives are thinking about doing.
wpietri 11 days ago [-]
I might feel similarly, especially given my distaste for private equity. But in the AIS (ship tracking) space, commercial versions seem to do ok. MarineTraffic runs its own blatantly commercial effort. And is not commercial itself, but it is run by Astra Paging, which definitely is.

I run a receiver that feeds into both networks, and in both cases I look at it as a value-for-value exchange.

Kalibr 11 days ago [-]
Probably to eliminate the open source competition if anything.
notahacker 11 days ago [-]
afaik JetNet hasn't offered a competing service before: their focus is on business jet fleet and transaction related data (I worked for what could loosely be described as a competitor)

The data has some value in supporting that core product (as an additional data feed to sell a handful of enterprise clients, to support their fleet data research and possibly to enhance their FBO/charter products). I guess part of the appeal of ADS-B Exchange is that working in business aviation, an unfiltered dataset is a lot more useful to them than a filtered one like most of the commercial providers.

Still seems like a slightly odd acquisition, since they could have got the data beforehand relatively inexpensively and they'd probably get better feed coverage leaving it as an OS project and I do wonder how they'll manage privacy requests from some of their clients...

error503 11 days ago [-]
Perhaps enabling them to censor the feed is one of the primary reasons for the acquisition. I can't imagine it was that expensive, considering the likes of whom might take issue with the data being public.
brookst 11 days ago [-]
Perhaps, but it would be like buying a newsstand to censor a newspaper.

The data is still freely available and will be distributed via another channel.

inferiorhuman 11 days ago [-]
That sort of irrational behavior makes me wonder if das muskrat has his paws in this. If he was willing to drop $44 billion on Twitter, this is pocket change by comparison. And he's been desperately trying to get that guy to stop tracking his jet.

  The data is still freely available and will be distributed via another channel.
The ADS-B transmissions are still freely available but the value is in the aggregate product. In the case of ADS-B Exchange that aggregate takes a ton of work from volunteers who (if the comments here are any indication) are inclined to stop volunteering. An ADS-B receiver has a range of dozens, maybe hundreds of miles. Without that network of volunteers Joe Schmo in Santa Cruz will have no way of tuning in to that freely observable transponder in Austin.
nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
There’s most definitely a coordination problem to be solve to recreate that network, and I don’t mean to understate the difficulty of that at all, but I’m wondering if a (reconstituted) network of a small-ish number of volunteers could scale up to, say, 80% of the current ADSB Exchange coverage surprisingly quickly?

My feeder, which cost maybe $100 all-in (pi + sdr + antenna; though the pi was much cheaper then than it is now) has full coverage of two major airports. Normal range is 200 miles (obviously dependent on altitude) and sometimes picks up plans ~250 miles away, I assume depending on relatively rare atmospheric conditions.

With reasonably optimal distribution of what, a few hundred receivers, my mental math is suggesting you could cover a majority of the continental U.S. landmass and a large majority of its population and air traffic?

Again, not to understand the magnitude of this. But if someone’s objective is generally to redistribute public data, or track Gulfstreams on their way to Omaha during times of financial upheaval, or poke a finger in the eye of the private jet lobby, but not to create a 99% comprehensive, monetizable data source for a sale to private equity - maybe it’s not crazy infeasible?

inferiorhuman 11 days ago [-]
It's not impossible or even infeasible really, but it is unlikely and it is a lot of effort. How many open source software projects even have 100 people working on them full time?

I hope something fills the shoes left by ADS-B Exchange, but I won't hold my breath. I already had the Pi so I probably spent around $40 getting the SDR + cheapo antenna. I got bored with it quickly though as there's already decent coverage of the Bay Area – and the SDR has since been repurposed to monitor my fridge.

wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
I agree that 20M isn't much for Musk but I really doubt he'd hide his involvement behind another company like this.. It's not his style, he'd trumpet it all over Twitter and claim it as a win for free speech or something :P

Considering the new owner is a jet charter they do probably have a similar motive, I just don't think Elon is behind it here.

mikewarot 11 days ago [-]
But will it really become available again? Or, more likely, like RSS, will this snuff it out.

It's amazing how someone with a bit of capital and time can control almost anything that offends them.

notahacker 11 days ago [-]
The information is already publicly broadcast; nobody's paying one particular feed company big bucks to remove it from their records when most others do it simply because they ask nicely or because they don't want to upset the government. And even without the feeds, if a guy with a device somewhere near an airport decides to tweet that Elon has landed, everybody knows anyway.
sschueller 11 days ago [-]
Well I for one will stop feeding them.
lsllc 11 days ago [-]
I wonder if this was done to stop trackers like @ElonJet since ADS-B Exchange doesn't seem to support the "privacy" requests of the rich & famous as FlightAware / FlightRadar24 et al do.

sftomato 11 days ago [-]
Let's not forget that thanks to adsb-exchange, authorities were also able to track Jeffrey Epstein's private jets.
mlindner 11 days ago [-]
All of this information is public and known to the government. ADBS Exchange didn't provide anything that wasn't already available.
trothamel 11 days ago [-]
To the government. Having this available to journalists (and people to check the journalist's work) is also useful.
mlindner 11 days ago [-]
Sure, but the comment I replied to was about "the authorities".
11 days ago [-]
22c 10 days ago [-]
Yes and no.. "The government" doesn't have RTL-SDRs deployed in thousands of homes across many dozens of countries in the world, yet...

In some cases, having several thousands of geographically distributed volunteers submitting open source data can result in a more accurate picture than what a handful of government funded agencies could provide.

tzs 7 days ago [-]
> "The government" doesn't have RTL-SDRs deployed in thousands of homes across many dozens of countries in the world, yet...

In the case of tracking things like Epstein's jet does that really make a difference? The flights are going to start and end at airports, which I would guess would have ADS-B monitors.

The thousands of RTL-SDRs could be good for find the particular route taken between airports but that's usually not going to be relevant for an investigation, except for crimes that take place in the air.

mlindner 9 days ago [-]
Some government does however and governments can get such information from other governments.
bahbahbahblah 11 days ago [-]
cobertos 11 days ago [-]
Interestingly, ADS-B Exchange's twitter is suspended when I looked to see if there was any news updates there
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
That's because they pissed off Elon by supplying the source data for ElonJet. He's been on a banning spree for weeks. Anyone who so much as mentioned the account would get the banhammer.
cactusplant7374 11 days ago [-]
You can still post the link with TinyURL or another URL shortener.
mlindner 11 days ago [-]
They're not requests, they're mandated by US law. Also it's not limited to rich and famous. Anyone can do it. Only the rich and famous seem to have passionate enough haters that they actively try to subvert the privacy protections.
ranger207 11 days ago [-]
AIUI it's mandated by US law if you use data from the FAA's system, and ADS-B Exchange didn't use the FAA's data so wasn't required to hide things on the privacy list
nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
What’s the saying? The law, in its majestic equality, prohibits both the rich and the poor from sleeping on the streets?

Something like that.

yardie 11 days ago [-]
One of the first projects I created with the Raspberry Pi Model A was setup a SDR listening station. Then I wrote some software and downloaded software to listen and stream ADS-B data to a few aggregators. One of them was ADS-B Exchange. The other was ADS-B Hub[0]. The later is still free and still open source.


Cesartheiceman 10 days ago [-]
Yardie, I am a feeder and share data with RadarBox. For me, it is the best flight tracking website and I also get 10% off on hardware products.
H8crilA 11 days ago [-]
Thanks, I'm switching my feeds from the shitty people behind ADSBExchange.
commandersaki 11 days ago [-]
Just to be clear it’s the owner/founder that’s being shitty. The people behind running the infrastructure are against the acquisition. It’s also unclear whether they’re getting paid (enough) to transition the servers to the new company.
prova_modena 11 days ago [-]
Well, dang. I have been maintaining a Twitter bot that uses the ADS-B Exchange API, but paused development after Musk started going after ElonJet aggressively and Twitter began to ban aircraft tracking accounts. I just restarted work this week to implement Mastodon support, but looks like I need to pause again to reassess what ADS-B data source(s) to support.

I would really like to know the story behind this acquisition as my previous interactions with the ADS-B Exchange owner (edit: after checking back in on the discord maybe this person was not the owner, but one of the main team members) on discord were positive and they seemed like a very passionate and principled person. This was like more than 1 year ago now, though. My suspicion is that the loud, polarized public discourse around the ElonJet controversy, which led to ADS-B Exchange getting banned from Twitter, may have caused them to reassess their priorities. I hope they are not under any kind of legal threat from Musk.

femboy 11 days ago [-]
The Discord link on ADSBExchange points to a server called " Enthusiasts" - going to the website shows:

> Airframes is an aircraft-related aggregation service that receives ACARS, VDL, HFDL, and SATCOM data from volunteers around the world.

> It is under very active development and you will notice changes from day to day. Also, issues are expected.

> Contributing your feed allows us to make ground developing new decoders and make important statistical observations. It also benefits users of the service so that they can see more about flights as they traverse covered territories.

Perhaps the original founders' work will continue here?

EDIT: It does not seem like the original founders has collaborated with the community on this, and the people there are just as lost as anyone else.

cobertos 11 days ago [-]
The discord was originally the ADSBExchange discord, but, I believe a mod has taken control, banned the person who owned/sold ADSBExchange (Dan Streufert) and made a bunch of announcements. The mod used to have Outlook email access on the original domain, so it seems like there's kind of a shakeup going on as well

It's kind of chaos currently. I only joined this Discord in December and it was very different then. It seemed to be pretty community oriented, with images for RaspPi and scripts to help setup feeding and the developers of these tools were in there chatting. Not company employed people to my knowledge.

nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
I don’t mind feeding FlightAware and Flightradar24 - they’re for-profit companies, and are clear about the terms of exchange something of (dubious) value for the data they receive.

This feels a lot more skeezy. Oh well, fool me once, and all that. I do look forward to shutting down my feed once I’m back in front of a computer.

Something something, why we can’t have nice things.

james_pm 11 days ago [-]
Same. I get value back from FR24 in the form of a Business subscription which gives me a TON of data and access I wouldn't be able to afford. I fed ADS-B Exchange for nothing because it seemed like a nice thing to do to benefit the wider tracking community. To have the founder cash out and sell OUR data without even talking to the community first? That really rubbed me the wrong way. I stopped feeding about an hour ago.
Havoc 11 days ago [-]
Also doing same re FR24 and biz sub. Curious what data you use from it though? I haven't had much use for it frankly
james_pm 11 days ago [-]
I'm interested in a lot of different forms of transportation as a hobby. Photography, tracking, etc. Being able to see the flight history of a specific airframe is interesting to me or going back and looking at past flights. Fleets is another feature I use. For example, I've been interested in trying to get photos of the new E915-E2 jets that Porter Airlines is adding so I've created a "fleet" and can easily track the whereabouts in the hopes of being able to catch one in flight to photograph.
Havoc 11 days ago [-]
Got it. Thanks
zymhan 11 days ago [-]
FlightAware was less skeezy before they were bought by L3 Harris. I'm not in this hobby to help out defense contractors.

ADSBx are still far worse, since they built the site as an "open community".

devstar 11 days ago [-]
Your remark about FlightAware being owned by L3 Harris piqued my interest since I was not aware of this. I took a look at their About section and it seems they are actually owned by Collins Aerospace a subsidiary of Raytheon. Does not change your point but just a small correction and I also learned something new.
Cesartheiceman 10 days ago [-]
I prefer RadarBox. They are an independent company. And we have a community of feeders on WhatsApps and Telegram.
metadaemon 11 days ago [-]
These were already very skeezy guys if you interacted with them on Discord.
nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
I think I’m on their server, but I don’t think I ever really interacted with them. In retrospect, I suppose I should have and gotten a better sense of their character (which is why I’m being a bit more careful in evaluating whether I start feeding anyone new).

Too bad that every TOS out there basically boils down to “we own your data to the maximum extent that doesn’t create any liability for us (but if it does, you’ll indemnify us) and we can change these terms at any time.” Makes it hard to do a proper assessment of what exactly you’re stepping into.

metadaemon 11 days ago [-]
In my experience they were weirdly hostile about a question about supporting live WebSocket feeds of incoming data. SoylentADSB had developed one of those trivial chat applications you do when learning about WebSockets and flamed me for even asking.

When I questioned him about it he got very defensive and started resorting to personal attacks. By the end the the discussion he had deleted all of the pertaining chat messages from Discord, which I found childish. If you read past logs of his conversations, he's notorious for acting like that with people asking legitimate questions.

In my opinion, that's the exact opposite type of person that you want running this sort of thing that is essentially propped up by the community. It's a skeevy model today because they actually profit off of what the community provides. Ideally, this would all be open sourced and run by some governance board just like any successful open sourced venture.

jmyeet 11 days ago [-]
Years ago compact disc metadata was really important. There was an open library for this called CDDB. At some point the owners of that started silently inserting an agreement by the user to assign ownership of the submissions to the company.

That “open” database got sold off and became Gracenote [1].

I’m not sure how many times we need to learn this lesson.


nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
I’m still not sure how Amazon pulled off that same move with IMDb. I remember it WAY back when (I think it had several mirrors, one of which was hosted at a URL like, which gives you an idea of how long ago that would have been) and I can’t imagine they had a valid assignment of copyright from all their contributors…
voakbasda 11 days ago [-]
They might not have cared about getting necessary permission from every contributor. They only needed to get permission from anyone likely to sue and win in court. It's the standard play for companies the size of Amazon: why follow the law when it is cheaper to fight or pay the fine?
upofadown 11 days ago [-]
I guess the interesting and significant difference here is that value of the previous location of aircraft fades fairly quickly. So just setting up a different server and switching to that is an effective solution. The value here is not retained in the data but instead the network that collects the data.
wpietri 11 days ago [-]
Not to be cynical, but I doubt the lesson will ever get learned. These things start with big ideas, hope, and an ignorance of the practical details. Over time, practical realities, like paying for goods and services, crop up. In a capitalist society, most of the ready-made solutions to that look like businesses. And our current culture of capitalism then shifts toward short-term revenue-maximization, putting things in the hands of predators and sociopaths.

I know people have made attempts to solve this, like B Corps and groups like the Apache Foundation. But I don't think we're there yet. One could try to create a foundation that specifically incubates projects that go beyond open source to open/collective services. But even if one solves funding for that, there's still the problem of finding the naive starters of things and crushing their dreams just enough to get them on a better course, but not so much that they quit.

tialaramex 11 days ago [-]
Because profit motive is the usual problem, you can deliberately design that out if you're careful.

England (where I live) had a lot of Building Societies - mutual institutions where some members are saving money, and those savings are lent to other members (borrowers) to buy homes to live in, the interest from which of course makes this a good deal for the savers done at scale (so as to smooth out inevitable losses when some borrowers default). This can be a very lucrative line of business during a housing boom, and many of these societies found themselves with a considerable cash positive position in the 1980s. Since the members own the society, they can just change the rules of the society and "demutualize", extracting the cash for themselves. Of course this destroys the society, an important institution which has helped so many people to own somewhere to live - but hey, you've got some money and isn't that what's really important?

My parents voted "Yes" to demutualize the society where they'd saved money and from which they had borrowed to buy the house I grew up in, I (as an idealistic teenager who had my own modest savings) voted "No", the "Yes" votes won and the resulting entity, now a bank, eventually was mired in scandal and no longer serves the purpose the proud building society had served before. But hey, they got their money. People like them were nicknamed "Carpetbaggers" in the UK as a result, by analogy to the US concept.

Now, I mention this because as several larger societies were demutualised this way, the remainder realised that the same fate could be theirs, and many swallowed a "poison pill" to prevent it. They changed their rules so that all future members (savers, borrowers, whichever) signed away rights to the proceeds of any demutualisation (e.g. giving it to a charity). So you could vote to tear the society to pieces, but you would no longer make a penny from doing so, and suddenly that's not very attractive.

It worked.

jmyeet 11 days ago [-]
Most if not all big investment banks are now corporations, usually listed on the stock exchange. It wasn't always this way.

Prior to the 1970s investment banks couldn't be listed on the NYSE. Goldman Sachs (etc) weren't corporations. They were partnerships, basically like a law firm. This is a key difference because a partnership has unlimited liability. This tends to make such organizations very conservative with risk management, for obvious reasons.

But when this changed, all these partnerships incorporated instead and listed on the stock exchange. Incorporation shields the leaddership from the downside of their bad decisions. As we've seen, the governmen thas stepped in to assume that risk for really no good reason at all ("too big to fail").

Interestingly, I'm not sure there's a legal barrier preventing law firms from listing on the stock exchange but they don't, which is interesting.

So in your case these mutual societies and community banks existed for the benefit of their members and they (including the members) took the (one time) bag and was shielded from accountability. I see investment banks as falling into this same trap.

nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
For law firms, there is a barrier (in the United States, at least): law firms must be owned by lawyers. Other common law jurisdictions, such as Australia, have eliminated this requirement and have publicly traded law firms. I assume soon, you’ll start seeing what’s happening here with medical and other professional service practices that have similar ownership restrictions where ownership, services and revenues are theoretically decoupled through creative contracting arrangements, but I don’t know of that having happened yet with a law firm.

Most law firms in the United States are now organized as LLPs (a limited liability partnership, which segregates liability among the partners), but notably the most profitable law firm measured in a per capita basis, Wachtell, is still organized as a general partnership with unlimited partner liability. They deliver their clients one-line invoices, containing numbers with many, many more zeroes, for “services rendered.”

nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
That was an absolutely fascinating story, thank you for sharing. Very redolent of “there’s no such thing as society.”

Although my politics aren’t theirs, I don’t hate the Reagan and Thatcher types. I don’t think they were bad people per se (or at least not any worse than anyone else who is capable of ascending to the apex of political power). But I do think they changed some things in their respective cultures for the worse, and those are things that we’re still grappling with today.

robbiet480 11 days ago [-]
Already seeing a lot of people in ADS-B Discords saying they are cutting off their feeds because they feel sold out.
theyknowitsxmas 11 days ago [-]
Everyone is moving to

Also this from SoylentADSB:

> CEO of JETNET ( Greg Fell, now fired from JETNET by Silversmith) called and asked for a meeting. We thought was sales call. Turns out he offered to buy ADSBx from Dan for $8M, they wined dined and toured him around. Flew him to Boston, Dan cut us out when we ALL OBJECTED to a sale. We think they gave him $20M ish and a $200 a year job at JETNET. They'll fire him in a year, that's what PE does.

BizarreByte 11 days ago [-]
I can understand the community upset, but honestly? I wouldn’t be able to say no to that amount of money. I could retire tomorrow on that much.
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
Perhaps it's legal but it's not ethical for a founder to sell something that's provided by thousands of volunteers (I'm sure a lot of the code was as well as the data)
BuildTheRobots 11 days ago [-]
Usually I'd agree completely, but in this case I'm not sure I mind. Happy to be wrong, but as I see it there's three things of value in ADSBx. The brand/reputation, the server/feeder software and the amount of real time data provided by the community. Without the latter the brand becomes worthless, and the software in the middle is predominantly open source software.

£20M for the name in the knowledge that the software isn't secret, the infrastructure isn't that complicated and that the community will rebrand and be back up with a couple of months of disruption (ala freenode->liberachat) seems like guilt free retirement money in the bank. You could even make an anonymous donation to whoever takes the place.

The value comes from the current data, and the data is reliant on the community which is something you can't purchase. Most people liked ADSBx because it supported MLAT and was happy to report aircraft that from that data that usually wouldn't show on pf, fr24 and most others. If that functionality is removed then the community would likely die away naturally anyway.

kelnos 11 days ago [-]
What is the value of all the historical data?

Because if the historical data isn't all that valuable, I feel like Jetnet bought a turd. Building and operating a service like ADS-B Exchange doesn't sound particularly technically challenging or expensive.

Building a community of people who send you data for free is the hard and time-consuming part; IMO that's where ADSBx's value is. Did Jetnet not anticipate that the acquisition would likely drive away a good number of those people? Seems pretty naive if they didn't.

nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
It seems like a really weird PE acquisition to me. Did they have iron-clad, shockingly lucrative data distribution contracts? The site still has a donate button on it as of this moment, and somewhere says something along the lines of “in the very unlikely event our revenues ever exceed our opex, all excess will be reinvested in the project.”

One of the technical leads on the project said the site was generating between $500-3000 a day in revenue. It wasn’t clear if that was just ad revenue (which is a cash flow PE is definitely NOT buying) or ads + data subscriptions, but I just can’t imagine they bought much of substance here, when it sounds like the entire technical team has moved on. If the feeder network declines, what’s left? Stale flight data?

Super weird investment.

metadaemon 11 days ago [-]
Also questionable that they were even selling this content provided by volunteers to begin with. I'm personally excited for the future and hoping for more honest and open practices in this space.
blantonl 11 days ago [-]
I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far. That would be like complaining Twitter sold to Facebook.
H8crilA 11 days ago [-]
Indeed. There must be safeguards to prevent something like this, the incentive is too strong. Kinda like what GPL does to the code.
account42 10 days ago [-]
For the Freenode -> Libera.Chat move the operators seem to have learned this lesson and set up a nonprofit with shared governance to prevent a takeover/sellout by a single person. Perhaps the community that will move out after this takeover will be smart enough to do the same.
aeharding 11 days ago [-]
Like decentralization? That's the main reason I am now on the Fediverse (via Elk + self hosting), because a billionaire cannot just scoop it up and change the rules of the game.
kelnos 11 days ago [-]
Yeah, unless I was still unreasonably passionate about running an open and free service like that, I'd be hard-pressed to turn down that offer.

I'd feel bad about it, definitely, as I do agree it'd be a slap in the face to the community, and I'd know that I'd probably never get people to trust me in the role of running that sort of a service again. Not to mention burning bridges with the community members who helped run the service.

But $20M? I'm lucky that I've already built up a nice nest egg through the whole FIRE thing, but $20M (even after taxes) would take me from "can live a pretty comfortable life without working as long as I watch my finances" to "can live an amazing life without working, and will never have to worry about money ever again".

I'm not sure what terms ADS-B Exchange licensed out the collected data, but maybe it's even possible for someone to build a new service, and keep the historical data intact. Even if not, it seems like there is at least one other community-run service for people who are upset by this to switch to. And frankly this doesn't seem like a particularly difficult or expensive service to build or maintain.

RobotToaster 11 days ago [-]
I assume you mean $200k?

Is it normal for a company like that to more than double their initial offer? I know 20m is probably pocket change to them, but it still seems like they were rather desperate to buy it.

cjrp 11 days ago [-]
Unless they’d decided to pay up to $50m. Then starting at 10 and ending at 20 doesn’t seem so bad.
metadaemon 11 days ago [-]
That guy is such a whiner
cunninglinguine 11 days ago [-]
11 days ago [-]
myself248 11 days ago [-]
Is the codebase open / is anyone spinning up an alternative yet?
notahacker 11 days ago [-]
Not sure how it matches feature for feature, but has been crowdsourcing unfiltered ADSB data for longer, provides tools to view the data and supplies full API access to the raw data to academics and non-profits at no charge.

There's room for another provider, and at the same time lots of enthusiasts with the boxes will carry on sending it, like they do to other closed source, profit-making ventures like FlightAware and Flightradar24...

myself248 11 days ago [-]
Alright, so OpenSky and ADSB Hub are the two I've learned about so far in this thread. Very cool.
mike_d 11 days ago [-] is where everyone is moving to.
rektide 11 days ago [-]
If you go to , it talks about how they want to eventually open source stuff, but mercy, like 90% of their stuff is private right now.

I would absolutely not go to in it's current state.

H8crilA 11 days ago [-]
Note that at the moment aiframes is for a completely different type of aviation-produced data (messages: acars, hfdl, vdl, ...). I am assuming that will create an ADS-B feed too, now that the best open system (adsbexchange) is gone.
toomuchtodo 11 days ago [-]
Anyone want to work together on spinning up a non profit replacement with governance that prohibits a transfer of ownership to a for profit entity?
wpietri 11 days ago [-]
I run an AIS receiver and have previously run a technical co-op. I am happy to chat, although I don't have time to do much direct labor right now. But the first questions I'd want to answer:

1) What will participants get out of it?

2) How will you pay for the central services used?

3) Where there isn't enough volunteer labor, how will you pay for needed labor?

I don't want to discourage anybody, but there are some hard sustainability problems there.

toomuchtodo 11 days ago [-]
Great questions. I have never run a non profit myself (but run several small business ventures, real estate investments, have previously owned and sold a small technology company), but view it as an optimal structure to support technology services like this that are intended as a public good or utility versus something that is going to get flipped to someone that is going to extract the value out of it (investors like PE and similar). I want to build where there can be no rug pull for stakeholders.

1. The same they got out of ADS-B Exchange: open aviation data. I would work with the Internet Archive to archive batches of the data stream on a cadence. We should never be able to take historical data away. It is yours, forever.

2. I would pay for a dedicated server out of my pocket to bootstrap, with the eventual goal of accumulating enough donations to have a very small non profit investment account that would throw off just enough returns to pay for the server(s) or a rack of equipment at a colo indefinitely (I’m partial to Hurricane Electric but any reasonable priced vendor will do). Again, strong governance around this as a US non profit to demonstrate transparency and efficiency. I would also accept equipment, colo, and bandwidth donations from folks who could ensure consistency, quality, and continuity of the resource.

3. We would rely primarily on volunteers, similar to OpenStreetMap, who runs lean fiscally speaking [1]. The Internet Archive runs their servers for 5-7 years (per u/jonah-archive's ops talk), so I would shoot for a long bare metal depreciation schedule, a time series database stored in Backblaze B2, high level just an efficient use of capital for the technology components. I suppose I'm going back into an on call rotation. C'est la vie. Automate All The Things.

Poke holes in my thoughts, that's how they improve. I would also be interested in expanding into the AIS space; it's all UDP packets from SDRs coming into a software router and logger (with a visualization and admin frontend).


reachableceo 11 days ago [-]
I have infrastructure (my own fully private small colo) and a vested permanent commercial interest in an open exchange/aggregator or whatever this is called. for anyone who is serious about this.

My commercial interest is a free software / hardware (with itar exception) high altitude balloon startup that I’m the CTO/founder of .

wpietri 11 days ago [-]
Great starter thoughts! Thanks for contributing them.

I'd be interested to see if the Internet Archive wants large globs of this kind of data. I actually have something like 5 years of AIS data that I've been collecting and I'd be happy to contribute it.

I totally agree with you on transparency and efficiency.

Taking donations is a chancy model. People get excited up front, but ongoing expenses requires ongoing begging unless you get really lucky with the amount of money raised up front. And even then, as Wikipedia shows, people tend to get ideas about using the money to do more stuff. As someone else suggested, a revenue-driven model might be more sustainable.

The co-op I helped run was Bandwagon. We rented a cabinet and then shared it out among a bunch of sysadmins who wanted their own boxes on the internet. This started circa 2001, when single-box hosting was rare and virtual hosting was nonexistent. We wound it up a few years ago as most of the people moved to the cloud.

My experience is that people's motivations change over time, and so actually owning hardware is risky if you want to avoid the one-person-in-Nebraska problem. [1]


andiareso 11 days ago [-]
I'm interested in helping as well (software engineer). This is such a loss for the community. Like other's have stated, ADS-B exchange didn't have to follow the privacy requests as they didn't aggregate FAA data so it remained open. I'm wondering what the future will hold with the new ownership.
notahacker 11 days ago [-]
Depending on what sort of commercial arrangements participants were happy with, the obvious fundraising options are selling value added services or derived data on top or classic FOSS 'sponsorship' with corporate partners (hard to get for a new project in this space). That doesn't guarantee sustainability of course, particularly with there being a lot of competition in this sector with good coverage already.

(FWIW I'm happy to chat: have sold non-ADSB aviation data and consulting before and been involved with buying ADSB and AIS from a commercial provider)

wpietri 11 days ago [-]
Having been both on the buy and sell side is a very valuable perspective to include.

Do you have a sense of where some good dividing lines are between what to give to the general public, what contributors get, and what is marketable?

As an example, AISHub data contributors get a free real-time stream of global data in the same format that comes out of an AIS receiver. They also get limited API access:

On top of that, the company that runs AISHub sells both software and data services:

notahacker 11 days ago [-]
Dividing lines would depend to a large extent on what contributors want, particularly if it's set to be a nonprofit with a FOSS ethos.

Potentially a lot of the value comes from providing specific cuts of the data for specific purposes to companies (statistics on aircraft hours and cycles for companies supplying parts and maintenance, trend analysis). There are of course already authoritative sources that specialise in that, but they're relatively expensive, and a lot of the commercial customers want Excel files with prepared data tables for their commercial use, not API access to a stream that probably needs some cleaning up. Selling that value add stuff is compatible with making the core data streams open. The rest obviously comes from API access (which you'd likely want to limit to some extent so consumer web and mobile apps aren't hammering them for data)

Marketability is going to depend a huge amount on whether it's possible to get enough people on board to get good coverage, bearing in mind there are plenty of ADS-B data aggregation services out there (and they tend to have historical data going back several years, with the more commercially oriented ones having sales teams and full service customer support)

wpietri 10 days ago [-]
Thanks! That's a useful portrait of the landscape.
blantonl 11 days ago [-]
I own (currently unused) and would be glad to donate the domain and leadership expertise in governance and managing crowdsourced type sites (i own and manage and you can contact me through my profile
lsllc 11 days ago [-] is a great site, thank you for running it!
nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
I’d be interested in helping out. I have experience with corporate governance and setting up transfer-restricted entities, though unfortunately not so much experience with setting up non-profits (though I have served on non-profit boards).

That said, I can also think of a few ways you might be able to structure a successor that can’t exit like this, without having to deal with the headache of qualification and compliance as a non-profit. Interesting thought exercise.

myself248 11 days ago [-]
Well, fuck.

Companies eat things to kill them because it works. Only some fraction of users will jump to the alternative, and indeed the alternative never ends up as strong as the original.

Are there examples of where the alternative turned out stronger?

ninjagoo 11 days ago [-]
LibreOffice is a good example.
account42 10 days ago [-]
As far as mindshare goes, I'm not so sure. Plenty of people that still only know "Open Office" even if some of them are actually using LibreOffice.
esjr 10 days ago [-]
I run this site : It is a hobby that got out of hand. The idea was/is to see what this data reveals. What can be learned just by observing 'traffic'. The answer is : a lot and I know various agencies and governments freaked out when they realized how visible some things are. Basically, with enough 'training' and domain-knowledge it's all pretty much out there : military transports, private military contractors, refugee flights, mercenaries, embargo busters, the spooks etc. Obviously there was a reaction. Over the years they've tried to tidy things up with some success by putting pressure on the tracker-sites (or simply attacking the small players' servers). Anyway, the point is : it is complex and fascinating. I'm not interested in shouting "SECRET flight..." for clicks but if someone wants to try and set up a new 'ADS-B Exchange' : basically free, responsible, open source etc and wants to take on board a couple of years of deep domain-knowledge and decades of coding skills, contact details are on the site. I know this is like a shameless (well) plug's complicated ;)
arprocter 11 days ago [-]
>maintaining our enthusiast roots and unfiltered data

Interesting to see if a certain someone's jet(s) remain trackable

donaldcjackson 11 days ago [-]
I suggest that folks that want to feed open ADSB aggregators consider feeding
everybodyknows 11 days ago [-]
Interesting possibilities here:

> You can now feed VHF/voice data to OpenSky and help researchers around the world. Check out the interface and set up a feeder at

evil-olive 11 days ago [-]
if this news has gotten anyone interested in running an ADSB antenna/feeder, the SDR Enthusiasts book [0] is an excellent resource.

their github [1] has a bunch of very nice, modular Docker images that make it easy to feed one or more ADSB aggregators. (by comparison, a lot of the other software ecosystem around amateur SDR / ADSB relies on `curl | sudo bash` type install scripts)



RNAlfons 10 days ago [-]
It actually really did get me interested in the topic.

I have a raspi which doesn't do much left. I guess I'll add it to the network soon.

Thank you :)

Havoc 11 days ago [-]
Thanks. Will try to tweak my setup to feed all of them. Don’t really see the point in being stingy with this info
nocoiner 11 days ago [-]
Welps, shutting off my feed today. I was actually thinking about this exact scenario just last week. Funny to hear that it happened.
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
Funny but also sad :(
Awelton 11 days ago [-]
Looks like I am going to stop feeding then. Donating electricity and bandwidth to an open source project and donating to a massive corporation just aren't the same thing. Pay me and I will turn it back on, but until then I guess it is going to sit idle.
dgacmu 11 days ago [-]
I cynically wonder how much they'll start charging billionaires to hide their private jet info.
sschueller 11 days ago [-]
Cynic in me thinks the was arranged by billionaires that don't want to be tracked. Chump change for them.
jgalt212 11 days ago [-]
or at the very least, the partners at Silversmith will have a long list of billionaires who owe them favors.
vlovich123 11 days ago [-]
Out of curiosity, how does this community effort do quality control (ie preventing someone rich from paying some people to flood the system with conflicting information)
dgacmu 11 days ago [-]
There's a protocol for multilateration of the detected jets using all of the receivers that are in range of its signal. Whil I'm sure there are ways you could attack it, it's pretty robust to the more obvious things.
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
The mlat is more for receiving aircraft that use traditional transponders which don't include gps coordinates but just a squawk code and altitude. Hence it needs multiple receivers to triangulate their location. I don't think it uses this for real adsb feeds.
vlovich123 11 days ago [-]
Would switching to a federated / distributed protocol fix things? Or is there some additional critical role that ADS-B was providing?
Cesartheiceman 10 days ago [-]
We have a community in RadarBox and that we have direct contact with the developers:
tecleandor 11 days ago [-]
The dullest non-announce ever:

Hasn't said anything in the forum or the site news section, and hasn't posted that tweet until after the official announce by Jetnet.

Looks like a case of "take the money and run". Doesn't smell good for the ads-b community.

rhacker 11 days ago [-]
This isn't going to go over well. I hope everyone shuts down their feed.
nerpderp82 11 days ago [-]
Most likely the goal.
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
I don't know, now that they own it they can just start censoring it like the others.

And I'm sure at least one alternative will pop up

RankingMember 10 days ago [-]
Replacement site from the people behind the original (except for the sellout) already up:
jmacd 11 days ago [-]
Just unplugged my receiver.
yooo000 10 days ago [-]
The dude who owned it was kind of a douche to start with, as I recall. That being said, I think I'd be hard-pressed not to sell something I started as a hobby that grew and grew.

Speaking of which, I created my own site[1] within the past couple of years...have a few friends feeding data. I set them up with Pi's, antennas, cords and the proper software. Would be super stoked if anyone else wanted to feed me!


Hit me up if you want to join!

oldstrangers 11 days ago [-]
Well that sucks. I had just gotten into using ADS-B over Flightradar24.
Havoc 11 days ago [-]
That shouldn't be affected by the matter at hand. ADS-B is the coms standard, ADS-B Exchange is a specific aggregation effort.
oldstrangers 11 days ago [-]
Well that sucks. I had just gotten into using ADS-B Exchange over Flightradar24.
wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
Oh nooo.. Now there's no volunteer driven tracking network left. And they'll probably start blocking military and private flights just like the other commercial trackers. Too bad, it was great while it lasted. Hopefully someone starts up a new one that will stay independent.
phkahler 11 days ago [-]
750,000 messages per second! Imagine if each node knew where it was and all of its nearest neighbors. The receivers could filter and not send messages that are coming from planes closer to their neighbors! Distributed filtering of redundant messages FTW!
sorenjan 11 days ago [-]
You need messages from multiple receivers for MLAT, I think they use messages with known plane positions to calibrate the MLAT solver since the receivers doesn't have a high quality common time source.

Plus proximity doesn't mean you can see airplanes that are behind buildings, at low altitude, etc.

phkahler 10 days ago [-]
What is MLAT in this case? The planes transmit their location in the ADS-B message. They are filtering a lot of redundant message receptions from multiple receivers. I would assume the messages also include altitude and heading information, so locations can be predicted between message receptions.
sorenjan 9 days ago [-]
MLAT is multilateration, where they use the difference in time of arrival to multiple receivers with known locations to estimate the positions of planes that doesn't transmit their location using ADS-B but only use older Mode S. This is mostly small or military planes.

KirillPanov 11 days ago [-]
> 750,000 messages per second!

ZOMG, that's like... a 1990s DSL connection!

mkl 11 days ago [-]
Only if your messages are 1 byte long or something.
huslage 11 days ago [-]
Does anyone want to fund an open ADSB data gathering platform for a nonprofit to run?
jjcon 11 days ago [-]
Looks like the official discord community (now formerly official I guess) is pushing
gggggg5 11 days ago [-]
GDPR compliance is a big problem in this space, there's no GDPR exception which would allow you to legally collect this data in the EU. (Unless you limited your collection to whitelisted A/C)

Right now every single player in this space is operating illegally, but it'll probably take years before data protection authorities will start to crack down.

looping__lui 11 days ago [-]
sigmar 11 days ago [-]
Is SDR accessible through the internet a violation of GDPR? Hard for me to understand why relaying ADS-B would be different (considering the sdr data is inclusive of the ADS-B data)
tialaramex 11 days ago [-]
I'm going to guess that collecting / organising the data is a problem.

Data Protection laws, and I believe the GDPR is the same, aren't interested in just stuff you've got, for example if you write a blog, and you mention that you saw Jim at the weekend and his sister is apparently pregnant, these laws do not consider that you've got a database there with a single row ("Jim's sister" "Pregnant") which needs to be treated as PII and have Subject access requirements etc. You're not really collecting pregnancy status data about women, you just have a blog post.

Whereas if I build a scraper, and I search thousands of blogs and correlate stuff to build a Postgres DB with "Jim's sister" "Pregnant" as one of dozens of rows, that is the sort of thing these laws care about.

So I can imagine that likewise "Here are radio signals I am receiving" looks like public information, no big deal, whereas "Here is a database of records I gathered by studying the past 24 hours of radio signals" is different.

wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
Why? GDPR is about personal data. This data is about airplanes, not people.
gggggg5 11 days ago [-]
Because the data can often easily be tied to specific people.

You also can't set up a camera on the side of the road and store peoples registration plates and times when they drove past.

You could also easily track cellphone IMEIs and locations in the same way these services track aircraft, that's not gonna fly either.

Obviously you'll be completely fine if you only store data on commercial aviation, general aviation will pretty much immediately veer into GDPR territory.

wkat4242 11 days ago [-]
It's not a direct link though. The owner of the airplane doesn't actually have to be in it. And very often it's a company anyway.

> You also can't set up a camera on the side of the road and store peoples registration plates and times when they drove past.

That's just because setting up cameras on public roads isn't allowed as you can capture people as well. Writing down license plates would be fine.

lfodofod 11 days ago [-]
> That's just because setting up cameras on public roads isn't allowed as you can capture people as well. Writing down license plates would be fine.


squarefoot 11 days ago [-]
Time to move the ADSB sharing network over p2p? Assuming it's doable, that way whoever buys an aggregator site would own just the interface, not the data sharing network.
plantain 11 days ago [-]
Good. ADS-B Exchange's API is horribly broken and they never even replied to my support/refund requests so I had to chargeback. A shakeup might help.
Cesartheiceman 10 days ago [-]
I am a RadarBox feeder and can use the API. I use it for some of my applications.
11 days ago [-]
windex 7 days ago [-]
Billionaires are going dark and buying out all the flashlights.
reallymental 11 days ago [-]
Is there any service like this for AIS data?
Cesartheiceman 10 days ago [-]
Yes, ShipXplorer.