I don't recall it expanding at light-speed, and the tool flattened 3D-space into 2D-space, permanently. (The implication being that eventually, the entire universe would flatten down to 2D space, since the process can't be stopped.)
And that was just one possible weapon, used by one possible species, I think?
digging 627 days ago [-]
> I don't recall it expanding at light-speed
It may have been slower, but I'm not sure why it would be or what the mechanism was. Regardless, it had the effect of consuming the entire system didn't it? As you say, it was deployed with reckless disregard for the fate of spacetime itself as it was irreversible and unstoppable, that's the important part.
Could be that other species had more targeted tools, but to me the implication was that Dark Forest Theory basically encourages an overwhelming and rapid response, so taking more time/effort to specifically target a planet is disincentivized on pain of extinction.
anonymouskimmer 627 days ago [-]
In the local zone it was at light speed, which is why only the ships which use a propulsion system which slows the local speed of light could escape. Though oddly some higher dimensional spacetime could still intersect with the newly collapsed spacetime in the future, so I don't think the mechanism was fully thought out.
You're right on the rest, which makes me wonder why bother going through any of the rest of this instead of just making everything two-dimensional the moment you invent the technology in order to wipe everyone else out from the get go. I guess the reason not to is that this wouldn't stop new 2D species from evolving and eventually threatening you, so it's better to only use on an as needed basis. But if that's the case, then it's better to actually look into whether a species is capable of threat (physically or psychologically) or not before striking them.
pavel_lishin 627 days ago [-]
> I don't think the mechanism was fully thought out.
There was a lot in those books that wasn't fully thought out, imo. In general, I thought the first book was good and interesting, especially the bits about Chinese history & culture, but overall I think the concepts have been done better, by better authors.
It feels a little bit like Harry Potter. It was a lot of people's first exposure to something (for HP, reading, for DF, science fiction) and so it'll forever have this nice feeling of nostalgia, and I'm glad they got to read something and enjoy it - but if you start looking at the details, things begin to not quite add up, things don't quite make sense, and the internal world-building begins to show its seams quite heavily.
> why bother going through any of the rest of this instead of just making everything two-dimensional the moment you invent the technology in order to wipe everyone else out from the get go.
My understanding from the book is that life is impossible in two dimensions; the people using these weapons are permanently poisoning the universe, presumably under the assumption that their species won't last long enough to deal with the consequences.
anonymouskimmer 627 days ago [-]
> My understanding from the book is that life is impossible in two dimensions
I recall that alien species specifically talking about making the transition to 2D. And that the gunner who used the weapon against Earth speculated that this is what their own government figures had decided to do (otherwise the gunner's superior wouldn't have signed off so readily on use of the weapon). I.e. it takes an advanced technology to make life possible in 2D, but it isn't impossible.
Rendered at 11:18:51 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
And that was just one possible weapon, used by one possible species, I think?
It may have been slower, but I'm not sure why it would be or what the mechanism was. Regardless, it had the effect of consuming the entire system didn't it? As you say, it was deployed with reckless disregard for the fate of spacetime itself as it was irreversible and unstoppable, that's the important part.
Could be that other species had more targeted tools, but to me the implication was that Dark Forest Theory basically encourages an overwhelming and rapid response, so taking more time/effort to specifically target a planet is disincentivized on pain of extinction.
You're right on the rest, which makes me wonder why bother going through any of the rest of this instead of just making everything two-dimensional the moment you invent the technology in order to wipe everyone else out from the get go. I guess the reason not to is that this wouldn't stop new 2D species from evolving and eventually threatening you, so it's better to only use on an as needed basis. But if that's the case, then it's better to actually look into whether a species is capable of threat (physically or psychologically) or not before striking them.
There was a lot in those books that wasn't fully thought out, imo. In general, I thought the first book was good and interesting, especially the bits about Chinese history & culture, but overall I think the concepts have been done better, by better authors.
It feels a little bit like Harry Potter. It was a lot of people's first exposure to something (for HP, reading, for DF, science fiction) and so it'll forever have this nice feeling of nostalgia, and I'm glad they got to read something and enjoy it - but if you start looking at the details, things begin to not quite add up, things don't quite make sense, and the internal world-building begins to show its seams quite heavily.
> why bother going through any of the rest of this instead of just making everything two-dimensional the moment you invent the technology in order to wipe everyone else out from the get go.
My understanding from the book is that life is impossible in two dimensions; the people using these weapons are permanently poisoning the universe, presumably under the assumption that their species won't last long enough to deal with the consequences.
I recall that alien species specifically talking about making the transition to 2D. And that the gunner who used the weapon against Earth speculated that this is what their own government figures had decided to do (otherwise the gunner's superior wouldn't have signed off so readily on use of the weapon). I.e. it takes an advanced technology to make life possible in 2D, but it isn't impossible.