Envoy is legendary in (dev)ops circles, but I don't understand what it lends to the AI space. I feel like building a separate backend service that runs behind envoy would make more sense but that's just me.
debarshri 39 minutes ago [-]
Lately, I have seen few gateways around LLM. Namely, openrouter, portkey.ai, etc.
My key question is, who would be the ideal customer who would need a proxy or a gateway like this? Why couldn't it be an extension or plugin of existing LBs, proxies etc.
sparacha 20 minutes ago [-]
Two things
1/ Arch builds on Envoy so that we don't re:invent all the HTTP(s)/TCP level capabilities needed in a modern gateway for applications. So in that sense, we agree with you that it should "extend" something vs. rewriting the whole stack. There are several security and robustness guarantees that we borrow from Envoy as a result of this. To be more specific, a lot of Arch's core implementation today is an Envoy filter written in Rust.
1/ Arch's core design point is around the handling and processing of prompts, which we believe are nuanced and opaque user request that require secure handling, intelligent routing, robust observability, and integration with backend (API) systems for personalization – all outside business logic. This requires the use of models and LLMs that are fast, cheap and capable to help developers stay focused on application features. For example, Arch uses (fast) purpose-built LLMs for jailbreak detection, converts prompts into API semantics for personalization, and (eventually) automatically routing to the best outbound LLM based on the complexity of a prompt to improve the cost/speed of an app.
We believe #2 will continue to be different and evolve further away from traditional API/HTTP routing that it will require constant invention and work to make the lives of developers easy.
Hope this helps!
lionkor 5 hours ago [-]
Hi, I'm curious how preventing jailbreaks protects the user?
> Prompt guardrails to prevent jailbreak attempts and ensure safe user interactions [...]
sparacha 4 hours ago [-]
That's a fair point - technically it protects the application from malicious attempts to subvert the desired LLM experience. The more specific language (and I think we could do better here) would be that Arch ensures users remain within the bounds of an intended LLM experience. That at least was the intention behind "ensure safe user interactions"...
adilhafeez 4 hours ago [-]
Jailbreak ensures a smooth developer experience by controlling what traffic from user make its way to the model. With jailbreak (and other guardrails soon to be added) developers can short-circuit response and with observability developers can get insights on how users are interacting with their APIs.
sparacha 5 days ago [-]
Hey HN - my name is Salman and I am Adil’s Co-Founder. Would love to hear and get feedback. Here is a link to our public roadmap, please lets us know if there are things you’d like for us to work on first
My key question is, who would be the ideal customer who would need a proxy or a gateway like this? Why couldn't it be an extension or plugin of existing LBs, proxies etc.
1/ Arch builds on Envoy so that we don't re:invent all the HTTP(s)/TCP level capabilities needed in a modern gateway for applications. So in that sense, we agree with you that it should "extend" something vs. rewriting the whole stack. There are several security and robustness guarantees that we borrow from Envoy as a result of this. To be more specific, a lot of Arch's core implementation today is an Envoy filter written in Rust.
1/ Arch's core design point is around the handling and processing of prompts, which we believe are nuanced and opaque user request that require secure handling, intelligent routing, robust observability, and integration with backend (API) systems for personalization – all outside business logic. This requires the use of models and LLMs that are fast, cheap and capable to help developers stay focused on application features. For example, Arch uses (fast) purpose-built LLMs for jailbreak detection, converts prompts into API semantics for personalization, and (eventually) automatically routing to the best outbound LLM based on the complexity of a prompt to improve the cost/speed of an app.
We believe #2 will continue to be different and evolve further away from traditional API/HTTP routing that it will require constant invention and work to make the lives of developers easy.
Hope this helps!
> Prompt guardrails to prevent jailbreak attempts and ensure safe user interactions [...]
https://github.com/orgs/katanemo/projects/1