From the GitHub this is only capable of 3DoF tracking, which puts it in the same category as the defunct Oculus Go headset, or Google Cardboard. 6DoF is really the bare minimum to qualify as proper VR nowadays.
For the uninitiated 3DoF means the headset only tracks the rotation of your head, not your heads absolute position as you move around, while 6DoF tracking does both. 6DoF is also much harder to implement.
RF_Savage 4 days ago [-]
HadesVR is the 6DoF capable low cost open source VR headset project with an active community.
It is derived from Relativty and the communities overlap.
chii 5 days ago [-]
3dof is sufficient, imho, for a large number of VR use cases, because most people don't have a full room dedicated to it, but is at a desk. Sitdown VR setups would be more common, if the equipment was cheaper.
LorenDB 5 days ago [-]
Having experienced both 6DOF and 3DOF on my Quest 3, I can confidently say that 6DOF is leagues ahead even if you are sitting in a chair. Unless you are watching a 180° stereoscopic video, you'll want to look around to get the full experience, and even the small translation movements that result when you turn around can make the experience nauseating.
Besides, VR is already cheap. A new Quest 3S is just $300 and can do pretty much all of what the $3500 Vision Pro can do (just worse); if you just want VR games you can get used 6DOF-capable PCVR or PSVR headsets on eBay for closer to $100.
jachee 5 days ago [-]
> Quest3S … pretty much all of what the … VisionPro can do
It can’t do that “protecting your privacy” thing. And that’s a dealbreaker for many, many people.
anonzzzies 4 days ago [-]
> It can’t do that “protecting your privacy” thing
Besides 'it's Meta' ; what is it doing with my privacy? I mean actually proven things, not 'probably it is'.
(I am not saying it isn't, but I haven't heard anything in this regard, so it would be interesting to know)
PaulHoule 4 days ago [-]
As a dev I see Meta made many decisions to respect privacy that constrain the kind of app I make although I've heard these will be somewhat relaxed.
I'd like to place a picture with a QR code in it, have somebody scan the code, then have the option of jumping into a world.
Apps can't access the cameras so you can't write a QR scanner. The Quest has a decent web browser but you can't access the cameras and make a web based QR scanner.
Without access to the cameras apps cannot at all understand the environment and enable you to interact with it. AR apps now have a special module that identifies a physical volume inside your space on a session by session but that's a pale shadow of the SLAM tracking of the Microsoft Hololens and Apple Vision that let you stick a "hologram" into the corner of your office and have it stay there.
Quest 3 devs need more access to make more interesting apps.
wlesieutre 4 days ago [-]
Vision Pro doesn't let you access the cameras either, being able to stick an app in the corner of your office is handled by the OS. I'd rather not hand out camera access, the problem that needs fixing is the "session by session" part where Meta's OS doesn't maintain permanent app-volumes.
godelski 4 days ago [-]
Isn't this more an issue with how the data from the camera is used? Or rather, where it can go? Maybe I'm a bit naive here, but isn't the issue that we don't want camera data going to third parties (or really... any party). So is there not a way that this can be sandboxed? Camera data must stay on device in an enclave. Honestly, this seems what's wanted for a lot of type of data. Is this just not possible to actually implement in the OS? Because I'd imagine not being able to process vision data really limits what you could do.
I think of this kinda like the data collection with many phone apps. I understand that it needs access to the networks to make connection to wifi or bluetooth, but why is this bundled together with an app's ability to record and send that data back to the developer? There has to be a better way to handle all this.
snvzz 4 days ago [-]
>And that’s a dealbreaker for many, many people.
Yup. The sole reason I haven't bought any of these meta headsets.
They come with strings attached. Or more like, they're fetters and chains.
renox 4 days ago [-]
Which string exactly?
I don't use Facebook.. What data are they going to sell?
snvzz 4 days ago [-]
>I don't use facebook
But you need an account to use a meta VR set.
alias_neo 4 days ago [-]
Exactly this.
I'd like to go for something like the 3S but anything Meta is a hard no from me.
I deleted my Oculus account when they took over, and yet somehow I still get Oculus emails from Meta.
TiredOfLife 4 days ago [-]
Quest is “protecting your privacy” the same amount as VisionPro does.
1oooqooq 4 days ago [-]
why i don't have either.
this line of argument don't help the discussion.
both companies report millions from selling your information, so assume they are always amassing loads of it, to sell when the price is convenient for them.
criddell 4 days ago [-]
> both companies report millions from selling your information
Doesn’t help at all. I’m looking to buy data collected and sold by Meta and Apple.
exe34 4 days ago [-]
I doubt they sell it to individuals. Data brokers is the easiest way. You could always write to them directly and ask.
Mindwipe 4 days ago [-]
You absolutely can't because neither company does it.
bornfreddy 4 days ago [-]
This is just a profit calculation though. Do they earn more by keeping and mining this information or by selling it, or both? For now they might not be selling it (I don't know), but that can change before you say "but GDPR...".
1oooqooq 4 days ago [-]
you're either too poor or not well connected.
the "accessible" way is to enter a real time "header" biding agreement. but chances are you don't know about it either and is just making noise.
criddell 4 days ago [-]
Okay, well then let me ask you a question that should be easier to answer: where does Apple report that they make millions from selling user data?
Tarks 5 days ago [-]
Also have to hard disagree. I remember going from the Oculus DevKit2 to the Vive, seeing the change in people we'd invite over for "I'm done trying to convince you with words just Come over and try out VR" evenings.
6DOF, even when sitting, is a significant difference. Your brain immediately feels far more at home with good 6DOF.
Fun fact : one week I spent about 5-6 hours every evening playing Elite Dangerous in VR. Mining asteroids while listening to lofi cyberpunk and pretending that mining was my whole life, it was great. Until my partner would bop me on the back of the head ^_^
atrus 5 days ago [-]
I very much disagree, your view in vr tracking your head as it does small movements in xyz significantly increases immersion, and more importantly, significantly decreases motion sickness and fatigue.
dmarcos 5 days ago [-]
6DOf not only necessary for room scale. Lack of parallax of 3DOF a common cause of discomfort for many. I’ve been in the space for a decade and given hundreds of demos to people.
a2128 4 days ago [-]
3DoF without tracked controllers is not VR IMO, it's just a head mounted display. It's not sufficient for any VR use case other than like watching a movie. You won't be able to play any modern VR games. Maybe you'd be able to play old Google Cardboard or Oculus Gear games since those were made with no controllers in mind.
SirMaster 4 days ago [-]
Am I the only one who just wants a great super high res OLED headset just for watching movies?
I want super high res so the quality is comparable to a TV or projector setup, and I want OLED because of contrast performance for dark scenes.
int_19h 4 days ago [-]
You're not the only one, and there's a separate market for such things, but it's mostly Chinese brands.
I've had pretty good experience with https://goovis.net/products/g3max specifically for movie watching. It has 2560x1440 (per eye) OLED, so not quite 4K; I do hope to see a proper 4K headset like that some day for a reasonable price.
SirMaster 4 days ago [-]
I am currently using Xreal Air which I got for $200.
For $200 they are good. They are native 1080p Sony micro-OLED panels. Brightness and contrast are excellent. I got them mainly to use when traveling, but I also use them laying in bed sometimes.
The resolution is higher than it seems because the 1080p is only displayed across about a 40 degree horizontal FOV, so the PPD is actually very high at about 49, which is markedly higher than even something like the Apple Vision Pro. It's also RGB stripe OLED. I cannot see the pixels like I can with VR headsets.
But alas, there are issues that bother me like ghosting and other internal reflections inside the lenses. Though all VR headsets I have tried have these issues which bother me, so I am not sure if that will ever actually be solved to a level that is unnoticeable by me.
The other thing about the glasses is that they don't recreate a theater, and a virtual room, so the apparent size of the virtual screen isn't consistent as it mainly depends on your imagination for how big you imagine it being. If you view a virtual screen in a fully virtual environment like Bigscreen Beta, then you can fully trick your brain into making the virtual screen seem as big as you want, even IMAX sized, and it really does feel like it.
The problem with full VR environment headsets and large FOV over 100 degrees means that the virtual screen only takes up at most about half of the panel, because a 55 FOV for a virtual screen on a headset with a 110 FOV is about as big as most people would be comfortable. So then a true 4K per eye headset would still only give you a 1080p victual screen. Though I think this is still a level which is good enough.
freeopinion 4 days ago [-]
So, a $200 display? With how many pixels? Is it better than a 29" curved monitor?
geon 4 days ago [-]
I have absolutely zero interest in 6dof gaming. On the other hand, I dreamt of 3dof gaming since the 90s.
Once the technology started emerging, I was so exited about the potential. A few games gained support for shutter glasses etc, but 6dof was hyped up so much that everyone jumped on that train instead.
zombiwoof 5 days ago [-]
They also said their mission is for creators. Seems to me 3D is fine for that
andybak 4 days ago [-]
I don't understand what the word "creator" means in this context or how that's relevant to 3DOF vs 6DOF
koolala 5 days ago [-]
Close one eye and those sound like TV use cases.
aziaziazi 5 days ago [-]
Never understood why my GCardboard couldn’t do that, my phone sure has a bunch of accelerometers and giros. Sure higher and other techs can track better but isn’t it enough for a basic sense of mouvement? For most of the applications I won’t more than a few meter anyway.
Probably some have tried and I’ll be curious to know what prevent it.
jsheard 5 days ago [-]
The problem with accelerometers and gyros is they drift badly if you try to derive absolute positioning from them alone. They need to be fused with some other form of tracking to anchor them in absolute space, which in the case of the Quest and Vision Pro is done with multiple outward-facing cameras fed into a SLAM algorithm.
Maybe Cardboard could have attempted to use the phones camera for SLAM, but a single lens would only have got them so far. Dedicated VR headsets have at least four cameras pointing in different directions, which are sometimes augmented by IR projectors and/or LiDAR.
Joel_Mckay 5 days ago [-]
LADAR/3D-cameras or LIDAR are both expensive parts with limited capabilities. Note rapid pose-recovery using cameras and or SLAM has been tried, but again people end up pooching the CPU/power budget.. and rolling camera shutters are useless... difficult to deploy as a wearable tech.
A few years back, we did design a set of <160USD parts to get repeatable absolute head and controller spacial location/pose to sub +-3mm in a room. The key was being able to resolve stable _absolute_ pose at >24Hz with <10kiB/s of low-latency data to handle. i.e. a small generic mcu _quickly_ handles the dual kalman filters and IMU sensors fusion, and battery life is reasonable.
Now build your own versions, it is not that hard... ask Alphabet/Meta/Apple... lol...
Those new 3D lenticular screens look pretty cool, but the prices are still not for consumer hardware yet.
Best of luck =3
needle0 4 days ago [-]
To be pedantic, two cameras were enough for the headset to track itself (eg. Lenovo Mirage Solo). The reason that headsets nowadays have 4 cameras is for it to also track the hand controllers that are being held by the user and being flung around nearby...which this also seems to lack.
bee_rider 5 days ago [-]
Most phones have a couple cameras nowadays… I think the Pro iPhones (some, at least) even have some sort of lidar system that seems like it ought to be helpful? Anyway, it is a shame, I guess the market must not have been there.
Joel_Mckay 5 days ago [-]
Most phones use a rolling shutter, so doing machine vision for low-latency motion/pose is difficult or unfeasible on a mobile cpu.
Best regards =3
ben_w 4 days ago [-]
Surely use the accelerometers for real-time/low latency, only use the cameras to correct for drift?
Not that I've tried for VR, but I did already create AR demos 5-6 years ago.
Joel_Mckay 4 days ago [-]
In general VR is easier for sure, as in AR the latency issues manifest quicker.
The sensor fusion of IMUs is usually not stable very long, but it does mitigate a few of the very noticeable problems with camera trackers.
Still, it always boils down to the power budget... having a 2.6 kg head mounted unit is ludicrous. lol =)
bigiain 5 days ago [-]
Lots of quadcopter flight controllers use 9DOF IMUs , with 3 gyros, 3 accelerometers, and 3 compasses. The absolute directional data from the compasses solves (at least most of) the angular/gyro drift.
The translational drift is harder for VR/AR headsets indoors. Drones can do sensor fusion with GPS and the accelerometers to solve translational drift from the accelerometers (or, for FPV drones, they just let the meatware compensate).
RF_Savage 4 days ago [-]
The "9DoF" in IMU datasheets is a marketing term, they just add up all the sensor dimensions they have.
Some IMU modules talk about "10DoF" , because they have added a barometer to it.
So even a good "9DoF" IMU is not usable for 6DoF VR, as it still drifts way too much.
Sadly the magnetometer in the IMUs suffers from all the magnetic fields generated by the rest of the electronics around it.
This might also be one of the reasons why 9DoF IMUs are increasingly rare on the market.
4 days ago [-]
foobarbecue 5 days ago [-]
Dead reckoning using MEMS IMUs accumulates error way too fast.
adgjlsfhk1 5 days ago [-]
even if you supplement with GPS?
jsheard 5 days ago [-]
That works if you're building a cruise missile, but not so much if you need millimeter accuracy indoors.
aziaziazi 5 days ago [-]
Ah! So it could 6DoF if I run outdoor fast enough with MarathonSimulator
grumbel 4 days ago [-]
See "Pure IMU-based Positional Tracking is a No-go"[1], a position from an IMU starts to drift in a fraction of a second and than shoots off into infinity. Without an absolute reference there is nothing you can do to stop it and the errors will accumulate. It's not just a little bad, it's completely unusable.
A further complication is that the IMUs you find in phones, especially back when all this was new, weren't very good. So even a plain 3DoF experience would suffer from slow response and yaw-drift from lack of magnetometer, which is why GearVR had an extra IMU in the headset and why Daydream required new certified phones with better IMUs.
3DoF can still be good enough for VR180/360 movies, which don't allow movement to begin with. But as far as gaming is concerned, you really do need 6DoF, as even a bit of leaning forward in a chair will make it instantly obvious that the headset motion and the headset visuals are out of sync.
especially given the camera, it seems like you could do some kind of motion tracking. I guess a Quest has 4 cameras for motion tracking so 1 isn't enough. Though maybe putting a 180degree wide angle lens over it would let it do the work for 4?
anonzzzies 4 days ago [-]
I seem to be an anomaly, but I don't mind just having a very large high res screen that moves with my head. The most comfortable I tried is the visionpro, but it's too heavy/big and of course so is the Quest3(s). Xreal (etc) would be perfect if it didn't have the corner issues where you have to stretch to see the corners/bottom. Seems the tech is close for what I want at least, but needs a few more iterations. Or maybe I missed something, but I don't think I did.
makomk 4 days ago [-]
Homebrew 6DoF tracking is definitely possible. I've had a janky and undocumented setup for a while that uses a standard smartphone as a display, paper and cardboard AprilTag markers with a computer and webcam for outside-in tracking, and homebuilt controllers. It requires a lot of improvement and is very sensitive to lighting conditions though.
aa-jv 4 days ago [-]
Wouldn't it work to duct-tape some LiDar sensors to this, though? I'm thinking of the use-case of building a cockpit for 3D flight sims, such as DCS, etc.
geokon 4 days ago [-]
Is it enough for FPV flying a drone?
int_19h 4 days ago [-]
You don't need (or want) proper VR for flying an FPV drone; it's just a head-mounted display.
Founded 2021, part of YC in 2022, any news on how the product is shaping up?
paxys 5 days ago [-]
It isn't a $200 headset. It's a headset you have to build yourself (including 3D printing and soldering) with $200 worth of parts. Huge difference between the two.
dantyti 4 days ago [-]
Indeed, some people would value a device they'd built themselves at way beyond any monetary number.
Most shockingly, someone might feel that such a device was better than free, more satisfactory and empowering than anything $200 and a ton of time wasted on side hustling could buy!
nicce 5 days ago [-]
It depends. Do you have paid extra work for the time you would use on building this?
GuB-42 4 days ago [-]
Even if you don't, as any DIY project, it is still going to cost you more money than the part list would suggest. Mostly because of tooling.
For 3D printing stuff, you obviously need a 3D printer, these aren't free, the maintenance isn't free, the space where you are going to put it isn't free. There are also the basic tools: screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers, drill, soldering iron, etc... Also missing are consumables like glue, solder, grease, cleaning agents, etc... and also electricity and gas for shopping. You are also generally expected to have a proper computer.
Sometimes jellybean parts like screws, wires, resistors, etc... are priced, but it is often not the case, as it is difficult to price 2 screws when you can't buy less than 100.
Not the case here but the worst is when a part list include significant parts you are supposed to be salvaged from something you already have. No, I don't have the right broken appliance in my garage and no one has conveniently dropped one in the closest dumpster. So please price it as if I had to buy it.
Of course, someone who is into building stuff most likely have a lot of that already, or maybe is part of a makerspace, but it is unfair to compare what represents a significant investment in time and money to just buying a complete product on Amazon with free shipping and a warranty.
Warranty is another thing to consider, because when something goes wrong with an off the shelf product, if you bought it through a reputable seller (Amazon qualifies), you can normally return it free of charge. If you screw up on your DIY build, which is very common (failed print, bad cut, magic smoke, lose small parts, ...), you get to fix it on your own, savvy people buy spares for that reason, again, not priced in.
godelski 4 days ago [-]
If someone is trying to build this to save a few bucks and has no passion for building or tinkering, yeah, it is HIGHLY advised to not take on a project like this. But I'm pretty sure that group is quite small. Seriously, who dislikes building and tinkering and is looking at this going "Well... I can save $100 if I do it myself..."? Do they even have the skillset?!
For everyone else, I would be very surprised if they didn't have most of those things on hand or would gladly use this type of project as an excuse to buy more tools. That's how DIYers build up their tool chests, a series of excuses. But guess what, these are not one time things. I bought by 3d printer with an excuse and print tons of stuff. It's just how the hobby goes. Hell, I've torn apart a bunch of old electronics from Goodwill when I was teaching myself how to solder (highly recommend this btw), including how to microsolder. Why? For fun? I definitely don't get paid for it (though at one point I sometimes did).
And yes, people like to build and tinker as a hobby.
GuB-42 4 days ago [-]
> I would be very surprised if they didn't have most of those things on hand
The thing with building stuff is that it feels like you are always missing something. Like, you have all sizes of screws, including some that look like they come from an alien spaceship, but not the one you need, so here goes another box of 100 for the 10 of them you will use in your lifetime.
> an excuse to buy more tools
It used to be the case for me. Not anymore for the simple reason that I live in an appartement and don't have a dedicated workshop and I feel like I am drowning in parts and tools. The worst part is that I actually may need all of them, but I don't know which one. It turns out that I finally used the turbo-encabulator that has been sitting on shelf for 15 years, and of course, I had to buy new marzlevane grease, as I didn't want to risk side fumbling.
And yes, I have that hobby, and I too like to pretend that I built that thing for dirt cheap, but the reality is that it cost me a lot more than I would have paid otherwise, that's the cost of having a hobby.
3D printing could be an exception though. I have printed plenty of small parts for essentially nothing (except time) that are almost impossible to find at a reasonable price. Also great for gifts, as you can make objects that are personalized and useful, enough to be appreciated, but cheaply and with limited (but non-zero) effort. I hesitated a long time before getting a 3D printer, because it is an investment and I couldn't think of many use cases at the time that didn't involve adding more clutter to my clutter, but it turned out I probably use it more than anything else.
godelski 4 days ago [-]
I just want to check in. You doing okay? Sounds like the stress is getting to you. I get it, it’s been a tough week for me too and I know how the little things add up. I hope you can find time for a break
GuB-42 4 days ago [-]
Don't worry, I am perfectly fine. Don't take my reply too seriously, I didn't mention the turbo-encabulator for nothing ;)
The part about a lack of space is serious though, it has always been a frustration, more than time and expenses. Not enough to warrant major changes in my life though, it is just a hobby among others.
godelski 4 days ago [-]
Haha I totally get that. And I haven’t liked many of the 3D printing community solutions but being in grad school I haven’t had time to make modular versions that are parametrically defined. Or at least that’s my excuse lol
manfre 5 days ago [-]
All of our time has a value.
ctm92 4 days ago [-]
If you put value on your own time, then everything you build yourself is way more expensive than a product off the shelf. It's about the fun of building it and being able to modify it to your needs.
godelski 4 days ago [-]
Some people like to build and tinker as a hobby. It is how they like to spend their free time.
All hobbies cost money. Videogames, reading, sports, music, or even eating at fancy places ("foodie"). Hell, it's a big reason to get work for more money, because you can have more expensive hobbies.
So I don't get these arguments. Let people have their hobbies, even if it is different from yours. This is *hacker* news after all, and the "hacker" part isn't about breaking into computers and installing randsomeware...
dantyti 4 days ago [-]
And building something yourself could be the most valuable way to spend it. For some, it might even be the only respite from the monetization of the entire human experience, i.e., beyond priceless
nicce 5 days ago [-]
That is true. But only specific kind of time can be used on acquiring the desired VR headset with specific time/value ratio.
vdvsvwvwvwvwv 5 days ago [-]
Yes
KPGv2 5 days ago [-]
Everyone who is capable of building this thing has the option to take on paid extra work doing /something/, even if it's tutoring rich college brats in calculus at $50/hr.
nicce 5 days ago [-]
I wish that would be the case.
bornfreddy 4 days ago [-]
More importantly, I fail to see why I would want to do that? I prefer tinkering with this headset for free.
godelski 4 days ago [-]
So you're saying I can save a few hundred bucks *AND* get a lot of fun time tinkering and building? I don't see the problem here. I mean how many hours of fun am I going to get out of that $200? There's the time building, the time using, AND the time debugging! Sounds like a good value!
Here's an overview of current VR hardware.[1] This is by Phia, who is a VR native. She's been trying everything in VR since she was a teenager.
The most recent advance is Bigscreen.[2] Wired headset display, weighs 127 grams, good screens and optics, about US$1000. We're starting to see the end of the brick you wear on your head era.
Calling a person "VR native" is perhaps the worst thing ever said. I think "addicted to VR Chat" would be a more apt phrasing.
solanav 4 days ago [-]
Calling a person "computer/internet/phone native" is perhaps the worst thing ever said. I think "addicted computers/the internet/phones" would be a more apt phrasing.
Sure thing grandpa!
vel0city 4 days ago [-]
> I think "addicted computers/the internet/phones" would be a more apt phrasing
I mean yeah, I totally agree with "addicted to computers/the internet/phones" as a problem facing a lot of people and should probably be the proper term instead of "internet native".
They were born in meatspace not in VR.
Somoene who spends the majority of their waking hours in Call of Duty or World of Warcraft to the detriment of their real lives aren't CoD or WoW natives; they have a videogame addiction.
Animats 4 days ago [-]
She grew up with VR, and is comfortable moving around in VR gear. Most people in later life cannot do that.
plagiarist 4 days ago [-]
I would like to try the Bigscreen but I am far too much of a curmudgeon to send them a scan of my face.
Animats 4 days ago [-]
Bigscreen is very customized. They have different models for different interpupil distance. The face insert is custom made. Custom corrective lenses can be made and installed. Not even close to one-size-fits-all. This is all good but hard to market.
bArray 4 days ago [-]
I see they are building out a company around this [1], where there is an investors section.
Biggest advice to this team is to get there quickly. Half the people in this comments section would bite your hand off for your product as is.
Edit: I now realize that it is actually relativty, without the second ‘I’
The relativity.com domain could not have been cheap, even if leased.
I’m surprised they are making a new brand, “Unai”/unison.co, instead of continuing with Relativity.
lastdong 4 days ago [-]
This project is an awesome way to dive into building your very own VR headset! While it's not the cheapest option out there, it's definitely not too pricey, and the hands-on learning experience you'll gain makes it totally worth it. I can totally see high school or college classes, as well as hardware clubs, taking this on as a fun side project that will really engage students.
Any other websites with open source hardware projects out there?
interstice 5 days ago [-]
Clicking through the parts list, somewhat wildly <10cm inch 2k displays appear to be available for <$50 now. After a quick look I can't find much north of that in terms of resolution, but surely there has to be _something_ between this and the SOTA 4k+ displays going in high end headsets. If those exist then the last major barrier I can think of to DIY is the magic lenses required to make those screens viable when <50mm from an eyeball.
LarsDu88 5 days ago [-]
That company name is not easy to remember how to spell.
This will be nice for Maker projects, but I don't see it getting traction without 6DOF
nashashmi 5 days ago [-]
I feel like the future would declare monitors to be old technology. And everyone will migrate to eye mount displays.
Zamiel_Snawley 5 days ago [-]
That’s kind of my dream for programming actually.
A belt-mounted split keyboard on my thighs, and limitless screen space in a serene setting provided by VR. Won’t need a standing desk at all!
grugagag 5 days ago [-]
Sounds dystopic to me. I don’t always look at the display when typing. Having no way to look away is visual prison to me.
jannyfer 5 days ago [-]
Nowadays you can have a floating display in AR that stays in the same spot, as if it’s a physically grounded monitor. You can look away and it stays where it is.
bogwog 5 days ago [-]
> Having no way to look away is visual prison to me.
This makes the advertisers happy.
amelius 4 days ago [-]
Where do you buy the lenses?
accrual 5 days ago [-]
Defeat the Index in some metric and get support from VRChat and I'm in 8)
a2128 4 days ago [-]
Well it has no controllers nor any controller tracking hardware, so you won't be playing much VRChat with it...
bastloing 4 days ago [-]
These things make me sick. Can't wait for that to get solved.
DarkmSparks 5 days ago [-]
probably better buying a psvr for $150... Great quality headset with solid linux support.
love to see more quest 3s hacking tho ($270)
mclightning 4 days ago [-]
built something like this around 10 years ago, went viral for a while, it didn't last long.
andrewmcwatters 5 days ago [-]
It's too expensive. The Meta Quest 3S is $300.
nicce 5 days ago [-]
Is it possible to use it these days without Facebook account.
TiredOfLife 4 days ago [-]
Has been possible for years.
paxys 5 days ago [-]
Can you use any device these days without creating an online account?
nicce 5 days ago [-]
My monitor does not require online account yet - I don’t see why my VR classes should either.
paxys 5 days ago [-]
Quest headsets aren't monitors and don't get their input from a computer. They are standalone devices with a consumer OS and app store, much like your PC or smartphone.
cesarb 4 days ago [-]
> > My monitor does not require online account yet - I don’t see why my VR classes should either.
> They are standalone devices with a consumer OS and app store, much like your PC or smartphone.
My PC does not require online account yet - I don't see why my VR glasses should either.
nicce 5 days ago [-]
I wonder how it is then mentioned in this context. It is not comparable at all.
procone 5 days ago [-]
Yes, you use a meta account that has no ties to Facebook. Mine is under an alias with absolutely no connection to any social feeds or network.
Unless you count Meta Horizon Worlds which is kind of a joke.
tonyoconnell 4 days ago [-]
Do you leave your phone outside when you use it? Do you use the same wifi? I would find it hard to believe that Meta can't predict who you are.
procone 3 days ago [-]
The question was if you needed a Facebook account for a quest headset. Not whether or not you wear a tinfoil hat.
PaulHoule 4 days ago [-]
"We started Relativty because after watching Sword Art Online we wanted to make our own VR games."
jckahn 5 days ago [-]
The name of this product is infuriating.
pteraspidomorph 5 days ago [-]
Oh boy, I didn't even notice until I read your comment!
garyfirestorm 5 days ago [-]
Nvm I see it now
Why is that? I don’t see any problems with this particular name. Valve index and oculus rift aren’t that amazing either.
LorenDB 5 days ago [-]
The name is Relativty, which is one 'i' off from the normal spelling of relativity.
Kototama 4 days ago [-]
It's even more confusing for non native speakers.
esafak 5 days ago [-]
It's more searchable?
internet101010 5 days ago [-]
No, it will just get auto-corrected. Removing a letter from a word as a brand name is dumb; it is no different than parents naming their kid a normal name with stupid spelling and thinking they are original/creative.
"RelativityVR" or similar would arguably be equally good for search, clearer purpose/context from the get-go, and much easier to communicate, vs " 'Relativity', but without second 'I' " ...
Rendered at 18:32:09 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
For the uninitiated 3DoF means the headset only tracks the rotation of your head, not your heads absolute position as you move around, while 6DoF tracking does both. 6DoF is also much harder to implement.
https://github.com/HadesVR/HadesVR
It is derived from Relativty and the communities overlap.
Besides, VR is already cheap. A new Quest 3S is just $300 and can do pretty much all of what the $3500 Vision Pro can do (just worse); if you just want VR games you can get used 6DOF-capable PCVR or PSVR headsets on eBay for closer to $100.
It can’t do that “protecting your privacy” thing. And that’s a dealbreaker for many, many people.
Besides 'it's Meta' ; what is it doing with my privacy? I mean actually proven things, not 'probably it is'.
(I am not saying it isn't, but I haven't heard anything in this regard, so it would be interesting to know)
I'd like to place a picture with a QR code in it, have somebody scan the code, then have the option of jumping into a world.
Apps can't access the cameras so you can't write a QR scanner. The Quest has a decent web browser but you can't access the cameras and make a web based QR scanner.
Without access to the cameras apps cannot at all understand the environment and enable you to interact with it. AR apps now have a special module that identifies a physical volume inside your space on a session by session but that's a pale shadow of the SLAM tracking of the Microsoft Hololens and Apple Vision that let you stick a "hologram" into the corner of your office and have it stay there.
Quest 3 devs need more access to make more interesting apps.
I think of this kinda like the data collection with many phone apps. I understand that it needs access to the networks to make connection to wifi or bluetooth, but why is this bundled together with an app's ability to record and send that data back to the developer? There has to be a better way to handle all this.
Yup. The sole reason I haven't bought any of these meta headsets.
They come with strings attached. Or more like, they're fetters and chains.
But you need an account to use a meta VR set.
I'd like to go for something like the 3S but anything Meta is a hard no from me.
I deleted my Oculus account when they took over, and yet somehow I still get Oculus emails from Meta.
this line of argument don't help the discussion.
both companies report millions from selling your information, so assume they are always amassing loads of it, to sell when the price is convenient for them.
Where can I buy it?
the "accessible" way is to enter a real time "header" biding agreement. but chances are you don't know about it either and is just making noise.
6DOF, even when sitting, is a significant difference. Your brain immediately feels far more at home with good 6DOF.
Fun fact : one week I spent about 5-6 hours every evening playing Elite Dangerous in VR. Mining asteroids while listening to lofi cyberpunk and pretending that mining was my whole life, it was great. Until my partner would bop me on the back of the head ^_^
I want super high res so the quality is comparable to a TV or projector setup, and I want OLED because of contrast performance for dark scenes.
I've had pretty good experience with https://goovis.net/products/g3max specifically for movie watching. It has 2560x1440 (per eye) OLED, so not quite 4K; I do hope to see a proper 4K headset like that some day for a reasonable price.
https://www.amazon.com/Glasses-Massive-Micro-OLED-Augmented-...
For $200 they are good. They are native 1080p Sony micro-OLED panels. Brightness and contrast are excellent. I got them mainly to use when traveling, but I also use them laying in bed sometimes.
The resolution is higher than it seems because the 1080p is only displayed across about a 40 degree horizontal FOV, so the PPD is actually very high at about 49, which is markedly higher than even something like the Apple Vision Pro. It's also RGB stripe OLED. I cannot see the pixels like I can with VR headsets.
But alas, there are issues that bother me like ghosting and other internal reflections inside the lenses. Though all VR headsets I have tried have these issues which bother me, so I am not sure if that will ever actually be solved to a level that is unnoticeable by me.
The other thing about the glasses is that they don't recreate a theater, and a virtual room, so the apparent size of the virtual screen isn't consistent as it mainly depends on your imagination for how big you imagine it being. If you view a virtual screen in a fully virtual environment like Bigscreen Beta, then you can fully trick your brain into making the virtual screen seem as big as you want, even IMAX sized, and it really does feel like it.
The problem with full VR environment headsets and large FOV over 100 degrees means that the virtual screen only takes up at most about half of the panel, because a 55 FOV for a virtual screen on a headset with a 110 FOV is about as big as most people would be comfortable. So then a true 4K per eye headset would still only give you a 1080p victual screen. Though I think this is still a level which is good enough.
Once the technology started emerging, I was so exited about the potential. A few games gained support for shutter glasses etc, but 6dof was hyped up so much that everyone jumped on that train instead.
Probably some have tried and I’ll be curious to know what prevent it.
Maybe Cardboard could have attempted to use the phones camera for SLAM, but a single lens would only have got them so far. Dedicated VR headsets have at least four cameras pointing in different directions, which are sometimes augmented by IR projectors and/or LiDAR.
A few years back, we did design a set of <160USD parts to get repeatable absolute head and controller spacial location/pose to sub +-3mm in a room. The key was being able to resolve stable _absolute_ pose at >24Hz with <10kiB/s of low-latency data to handle. i.e. a small generic mcu _quickly_ handles the dual kalman filters and IMU sensors fusion, and battery life is reasonable.
Now build your own versions, it is not that hard... ask Alphabet/Meta/Apple... lol...
Those new 3D lenticular screens look pretty cool, but the prices are still not for consumer hardware yet.
Best of luck =3
Best regards =3
Not that I've tried for VR, but I did already create AR demos 5-6 years ago.
The sensor fusion of IMUs is usually not stable very long, but it does mitigate a few of the very noticeable problems with camera trackers.
Still, it always boils down to the power budget... having a 2.6 kg head mounted unit is ludicrous. lol =)
The translational drift is harder for VR/AR headsets indoors. Drones can do sensor fusion with GPS and the accelerometers to solve translational drift from the accelerometers (or, for FPV drones, they just let the meatware compensate).
So even a good "9DoF" IMU is not usable for 6DoF VR, as it still drifts way too much. Sadly the magnetometer in the IMUs suffers from all the magnetic fields generated by the rest of the electronics around it.
This might also be one of the reasons why 9DoF IMUs are increasingly rare on the market.
A further complication is that the IMUs you find in phones, especially back when all this was new, weren't very good. So even a plain 3DoF experience would suffer from slow response and yaw-drift from lack of magnetometer, which is why GearVR had an extra IMU in the headset and why Daydream required new certified phones with better IMUs.
3DoF can still be good enough for VR180/360 movies, which don't allow movement to begin with. But as far as gaming is concerned, you really do need 6DoF, as even a bit of leaning forward in a chair will make it instantly obvious that the headset motion and the headset visuals are out of sync.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_8d0E3tDk
Most shockingly, someone might feel that such a device was better than free, more satisfactory and empowering than anything $200 and a ton of time wasted on side hustling could buy!
For 3D printing stuff, you obviously need a 3D printer, these aren't free, the maintenance isn't free, the space where you are going to put it isn't free. There are also the basic tools: screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers, drill, soldering iron, etc... Also missing are consumables like glue, solder, grease, cleaning agents, etc... and also electricity and gas for shopping. You are also generally expected to have a proper computer.
Sometimes jellybean parts like screws, wires, resistors, etc... are priced, but it is often not the case, as it is difficult to price 2 screws when you can't buy less than 100.
Not the case here but the worst is when a part list include significant parts you are supposed to be salvaged from something you already have. No, I don't have the right broken appliance in my garage and no one has conveniently dropped one in the closest dumpster. So please price it as if I had to buy it.
Of course, someone who is into building stuff most likely have a lot of that already, or maybe is part of a makerspace, but it is unfair to compare what represents a significant investment in time and money to just buying a complete product on Amazon with free shipping and a warranty.
Warranty is another thing to consider, because when something goes wrong with an off the shelf product, if you bought it through a reputable seller (Amazon qualifies), you can normally return it free of charge. If you screw up on your DIY build, which is very common (failed print, bad cut, magic smoke, lose small parts, ...), you get to fix it on your own, savvy people buy spares for that reason, again, not priced in.
For everyone else, I would be very surprised if they didn't have most of those things on hand or would gladly use this type of project as an excuse to buy more tools. That's how DIYers build up their tool chests, a series of excuses. But guess what, these are not one time things. I bought by 3d printer with an excuse and print tons of stuff. It's just how the hobby goes. Hell, I've torn apart a bunch of old electronics from Goodwill when I was teaching myself how to solder (highly recommend this btw), including how to microsolder. Why? For fun? I definitely don't get paid for it (though at one point I sometimes did).
And yes, people like to build and tinker as a hobby.
The thing with building stuff is that it feels like you are always missing something. Like, you have all sizes of screws, including some that look like they come from an alien spaceship, but not the one you need, so here goes another box of 100 for the 10 of them you will use in your lifetime.
> an excuse to buy more tools
It used to be the case for me. Not anymore for the simple reason that I live in an appartement and don't have a dedicated workshop and I feel like I am drowning in parts and tools. The worst part is that I actually may need all of them, but I don't know which one. It turns out that I finally used the turbo-encabulator that has been sitting on shelf for 15 years, and of course, I had to buy new marzlevane grease, as I didn't want to risk side fumbling.
And yes, I have that hobby, and I too like to pretend that I built that thing for dirt cheap, but the reality is that it cost me a lot more than I would have paid otherwise, that's the cost of having a hobby.
3D printing could be an exception though. I have printed plenty of small parts for essentially nothing (except time) that are almost impossible to find at a reasonable price. Also great for gifts, as you can make objects that are personalized and useful, enough to be appreciated, but cheaply and with limited (but non-zero) effort. I hesitated a long time before getting a 3D printer, because it is an investment and I couldn't think of many use cases at the time that didn't involve adding more clutter to my clutter, but it turned out I probably use it more than anything else.
The part about a lack of space is serious though, it has always been a frustration, more than time and expenses. Not enough to warrant major changes in my life though, it is just a hobby among others.
All hobbies cost money. Videogames, reading, sports, music, or even eating at fancy places ("foodie"). Hell, it's a big reason to get work for more money, because you can have more expensive hobbies.
So I don't get these arguments. Let people have their hobbies, even if it is different from yours. This is *hacker* news after all, and the "hacker" part isn't about breaking into computers and installing randsomeware...
Relativty – An open-source VR headset - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24431052 - Sept 2020 (222 comments)
Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16195055 - Jan 2018 (84 comments)
The most recent advance is Bigscreen.[2] Wired headset display, weighs 127 grams, good screens and optics, about US$1000. We're starting to see the end of the brick you wear on your head era.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DomfNq0vNCk
[2] https://www.bigscreenvr.com/
Sure thing grandpa!
I mean yeah, I totally agree with "addicted to computers/the internet/phones" as a problem facing a lot of people and should probably be the proper term instead of "internet native".
They were born in meatspace not in VR.
Somoene who spends the majority of their waking hours in Call of Duty or World of Warcraft to the detriment of their real lives aren't CoD or WoW natives; they have a videogame addiction.
Biggest advice to this team is to get there quickly. Half the people in this comments section would bite your hand off for your product as is.
[1] https://unison.co/
“We are building virtual reality”
Wow cool, tell me more
“Here’s a webpage that reads like a prospectus”
But what about the glasses?
“Want to see our cap table?”
https://xkcd.com/741/
The relativity.com domain could not have been cheap, even if leased.
I’m surprised they are making a new brand, “Unai”/unison.co, instead of continuing with Relativity.
This will be nice for Maker projects, but I don't see it getting traction without 6DOF
A belt-mounted split keyboard on my thighs, and limitless screen space in a serene setting provided by VR. Won’t need a standing desk at all!
This makes the advertisers happy.
love to see more quest 3s hacking tho ($270)
> They are standalone devices with a consumer OS and app store, much like your PC or smartphone.
My PC does not require online account yet - I don't see why my VR glasses should either.
Unless you count Meta Horizon Worlds which is kind of a joke.
Why is that? I don’t see any problems with this particular name. Valve index and oculus rift aren’t that amazing either.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Relativty%22