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Oldest US firearm unearthed in Arizona, a bronze cannon linked to Coronado (phys.org)
bargle0 1 days ago [-]
Is a cannon really a firearm? Was this for an individual, or is it a crew served weapon?
MrLeap 1 days ago [-]
That's up to you.

One of ways the ATF defines a firearm is "any weapon that can be converted to expel a projectile using an explosive."

If you don't WANT it to be considered a firearm maybe it's sufficiently corroded such that it's no longer true that it could expel a projectile using an explosive, and therefore is no longer a firearm. In that case, if you hit someone with it, it goes back to being an armament, but no longer a firearm.

That is of course unless you melt the metal down and turn it into some kind of lower receiver. It would go back to being considered a firearm by the ATF.

Whether or not it's a firearm depends on your context. If you and all your friends disagree it's a firearm, in that context it is not. In other contexts it is.

Words are really just illusions though. It's equally true that there are no firearms, because firearms are just words. It also is true that any and all matter is a few steps away from being a firearm. Where do you end and I begin? If we get quantum mechanics into it, maybe everything already is a firearm.

bargle0 19 hours ago [-]
This was made before 1899 (or whatever the cutoff date is), and it’s black powder. The ATF does not consider this a firearm.
dmoy 18 hours ago [-]
Pedantically, it would be considered an "antique firearm". Still a firearm, but basically unregulated
voxic11 15 hours ago [-]
> (3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

according to the law antique firearms are not firearms.

edgineer 14 hours ago [-]
And at one time a 14-inch long shoestring with a loop at each end was a "machinegun."

https://web.archive.org/web/20050313043608/https://jpfo.org/...

bbatha 5 hours ago [-]
That’s an incredibly biased reading of that. It’s the gun + 14” of shoe string attached to the trigger enabling automatic fire that’s the machine gun not the string on its own.
edgineer 4 hours ago [-]
No, this 2004 letter specifies that the string with loops on its own, because it was designed to be used to modify a rifle to fire automatically, was a machinegun.

Three years later, in 2007 the ATF decided differently, "Upon further review, we have determined that the string by itself is not a machinegun..."

https://everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-...

867-5309 23 hours ago [-]
this is probably the best thing I have ever read on this cursed platform. thank you
MrLeap 23 hours ago [-]
I'm glad you liked it.
morkalork 23 hours ago [-]
When the daily microdose isn't so micro
MrLeap 22 hours ago [-]
Not on drugs, I just happened to read the Perfection of Wisdom Text that Cuts Like a Thunderbolt a few years ago and I guess parts of it really stuck with me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Someone 12 hours ago [-]
> Was this for an individual, or is it a crew served weapon?

FTA: “Sometimes referred to as a wall gun, the unearthed cannon was an early type of firearm requiring two people to operate. Designed primarily for use along fortification walls, the expedition reportedly utilized them as an offensive weapon to breach wooden or light adobe walls of domestic dwellings in the cities they encountered.”

Wall gun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_gun

nkrisc 7 hours ago [-]
As you’ve illustrated, it depends on the definition you choose for a given term.

That may also depend on who you ask and in what context.

devoutsalsa 15 hours ago [-]
Well it goes boom and it’s roughly shaped like a big stick, so it’s big boomstick! Boomlog?

This is my boomstick!

https://youtu.be/881Dr4lMey4?si=sOW7Py_jQejicprM

orbital-decay 14 hours ago [-]
Yes for all senses of the word. Moreover, first firearms were really hand cannons on a stick. Look at the picture in the article, it was a rifle-sized weapon mounted on a swivel.
TrainedMonkey 13 hours ago [-]
> Sometimes referred to as a wall gun, the unearthed cannon was an early type of firearm requiring two people to operate.

The article claims it is a firearm.

BJones12 1 days ago [-]
It is. The US defines a firearm as "Any weapon... which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive" and definitions in other countries are similar. Both a pistol and a ship-mounted cannon are firearms.
Rebelgecko 18 hours ago [-]
I thought if it uses black powder it isn't (federally) a firearm? IIRC felons can own black powder guns, you can have them shipped to your door, etc
klooney 7 hours ago [-]
Cannons are legal to own, which is a little wild
lazide 5 hours ago [-]
To be fair, it’s hard to make a 2nd amendment argument that doesn’t allow private ownership of muzzle loading black powder cannons.

They haven’t exactly featured prominently in drug land/gang movies either.

injb 19 hours ago [-]
US federal law excludes antiques from this, antiques being defined as 1898 or older.
olddustytrail 21 hours ago [-]
Yes, a cannon is a firearm. The "arms" bit has nothing to do with human limbs, it's from the Latin arma.

A firearm is anything that uses an explosive to propel a projectile, so it can be "fired".

ensignavenger 1 days ago [-]
Definatly not a firearm.
JoeAltmaier 4 days ago [-]
I alerted at the description of the poor pillaging the expedition resorted to - just some blankets looted from pueblos.

Those blankets today would be worth more than the gold they had hoped to find.

x-_-x 3 days ago [-]
It belongs in a museum!
mcswell 24 hours ago [-]
And somewhere nearby there used to be a gold cross, which is in a museum.
sleepytimetea 17 hours ago [-]
Indiana Jones
sleepytimetea 17 hours ago [-]
Psych ?
ninalanyon 1 days ago [-]
It's not a US firearm, it's a Spanish firearm unearthed in what is now the US.
nazghoul 24 hours ago [-]
[dead]
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