The most important thing to understand is that these services don't have your interest in mind and they are out of country, so they can offer you bad advice with no liability on their end (vs. say a CPA). Your problem is not setting up a "free zone company" or whatever that means but getting your current obligations to drop. You do that by visiting your local tax office and telling them you are off the country. It doesn't mean your liabilities disappear overnight.
Your biggest liability (tax-wise) is going to come from your revenue source. That's also where you should be careful. Next, is the country of your passport (because they got you by the **). Everybody else matter very little which is why you should steer away from Dubai, HK, off-shore, etc.. until you understand the nuances of your situation.
comprev 2 days ago [-]
Tax avoidance rather than evasion is what you’re after.
Avoid the need to pay in the first place instead of taking evasive action for payments demanded ;-)
o1o1o1 2 days ago [-]
Thank you for the correction, you are right, I am actually looking to avoid them ;-)
chvid 2 days ago [-]
As far as I can tell these service are essentially the same as not reporting an income in a roundabout way - illegal but you will likely get away with it because how will the tax authorities of your country know.
Do these services provide you with legal representation towards your home country? My guess is probably not.
These services do not provide legal representation as far as I know.
chvid 2 days ago [-]
But are you moving your residency to Thailand? If so get a Thai accountant and a Thai company in your name.
Most countries except the US will not tax you if you move to another country.
o1o1o1 2 days ago [-]
Yes, I am moving there, but I do not want to open a company just yet. I might do so in the future to ensure I pay enough taxes for meeting the requirements to become a citizen, but to grow my funds and because I get nothing in return for paying taxes there for now, I would like to keep my business in a different country.
Also, I am probably going to consult a tax lawyer there, but it still does not hurt to ask others about there experience I think.
bruce511 1 days ago [-]
I think there are a bunch of things about tax you don't quite understand yet - I recommend you find a financial planner who can help you navigate this.
Firstly, it's trivial for a business not to pay tax; simply don't make a profit. (Since you can simply assign any excess to yourself as salary.)
Of course you then gave a personal income tax question; and that has its own complications.
Staying with business; and assuming it makes a profit, you then have choices regarding where to register the company. At the one extreme you have zero-tax places (Isle of Man, Jersey et al) but they come with fixed high annual costs. (Not a "tax" - just payments for services.) Your choice is typically one of these, or the place you live, or the country of your passport.
Things like banking play a role. When you can't visit your bank it gets harder to resolve issues (like when they freeze the account because of money-laundering concerns.)
All this to say, Tax planning is complicated. And if you insist on playing games it gets very complicated. The internet I'd not the place to get advice. You need to speak to a professional, or more likely a professional in all the places that matter. If you are a US passport holder even more so.
chvid 2 days ago [-]
Though all the digital nomads I met in Thailand kept their company / legal structure in their home country. Setting up shop in a new country - in particular in a slightly dodgy one - may not be worth the trouble to save some taxes on a modest income.
csomar 2 days ago [-]
It's 2025 and your depending on your country they might be getting quite a bit of information (bank accounts, brokerage account, insurances transactions, Beneficial Ownership, etc...) Lookup CRS.
chvid 2 days ago [-]
But do any of these setups help you with that? Ie. get a tax free company that is not under your name but under your control. And get an international bank account for that company plus an international debit card.
Plus you would need customers who are cool with paying you through an entity like that.
csomar 2 days ago [-]
Not only that but the system is guarded through the banks. Even if you open a bank account for your company, you have to fill beneficial ownership rules for that bank account. So they might end up linking you to it that way.
eacapeisfutuile 2 days ago [-]
No those services won’t be legal. If you stay in Thailand for that period you can pay tax there and then use FEIE to not pay double to the US
o1o1o1 2 days ago [-]
Ok, this may be true for US citizens who are taxed based on their citizenship, but what about other nationalities (I am not a US citizen)?
Same, but residence probably always require a time period. I think it highly depends on your actual citizenship and what tax agreements they have with Thailand etc.
o1o1o1 2 days ago [-]
I am not a tax resident in my home country anymore, since I already migrated to a different country (UAE). I am also not trying to avoid becoming a tax resident of Thailand, but as the law seems to state currently foreign sourced income is not being taxed there necessarily.
carlosjobim 2 days ago [-]
Your life should be split like this:
One country for citizenship, one country for residence, one country for your money.
This arrangement earns you a lifetime of peace of mind.
o1o1o1 2 days ago [-]
Sounds like the "flag theory", I heard that a few times during my research (the quoted services also cite this).
I think this is not so easy though, depending on the individual circumstances. My home country for example might want proof of my tax resident status of the past years if I ever decide to move there again, which will be difficult, if I have not been a tax resident anywhere. Of course this is easy when you reach a certain amount of wealth, but unfortunatelly I am not there yet and might need some time (if ever) to get there.
scarface_74 2 days ago [-]
Why is that optimal?
I understand at least having a dual residency as a back up plan and that’s our plan with establishing residency in Costa Rica before retirement and keeping our by then paid off condo in the US.
carlosjobim 2 days ago [-]
It's optimal because you get left the hell alone. Governments do not know what they citizens do if they are neither living in the country nor having their money in the country. Governments do not know what their residents do, if they are neither citizens nor have their money in the country. Governments do not care what foreigners do with their money in their country if they are neither citizens nor residents.
scarface_74 2 days ago [-]
Can you explain a real world scenario based on ease of applying for residence, tax situation, etc?
I haven’t researched anything aside from the US && (Costa Rica || Panama) scenario. There are really no tax advantages or disadvantages that way.
o1o1o1 2 days ago [-]
A simple example would be someone who does not have US citizenship (or Eritrea) and is able to move their tax residency to a second country that has very low or no income tax (e.g. UAE).
There are other countries (e.g. Cyprus) that do not require you to stay for 180 days or more to gain residency, so I think this is the kind of setup he is talking about.
The last piece of the puzzle would be international bank accounts, which gets easier the more money you have (e.g. HSBC Expat, which requires 50k USD to set up).
carlosjobim 2 days ago [-]
If you're thinking in these terms, then the advice isn't really for you. You are probably better served by staying where you are, paying the tributes you duly owe and obeying the commands of your government.
The real world application of this advice is that you don't ask for permission, and involve governments as little as possible in your life. This of course means that your source of income has to be adapted to this, usually meaning having your own LLC.
o1o1o1 1 days ago [-]
I understand that you're trying to make a point, but there's no need to provoke him like that. Everyone has to make their own decisions based on their own circumstances, and pushing them in a certain direction doesn't really help. Let's keep it constructive please.
@scarface_74: My goal is to avoid a high tax that I am used to from my home country without getting (enough) in return in my opinion. I would rather take my chances and prepare for retirement etc myself than leave it to a government.
I never want to be "stateless", quite the opposite! I would like to collect some citizenships to have more freedom, because even with a strong rank other passports still give you access to different areas of the world.
I am fine with paying taxes if the rate seems fair (e.g. not 50% of my income if I am not a multi-millionaire) and if I get a good value for it. Yes, security is one of those values, but depending on your situation, a government may or may not be able to provide that (in my case, my home country was not able to do so, another good reason to believe that my tax is not being used well enough to achieve that goal).
carlosjobim 1 days ago [-]
> I never want to be "stateless", quite the opposite! I would like to collect some citizenships to have more freedom, because even with a strong rank other passports still give you access to different areas of the world.
The citizenship part is the easiest part. You can never loose your citizenship, and it is in no way tied to your residency or your income/money.
People who dream about migration almost always and erroneously believe that this means that they have to get on a path to new citizenship. But you shouldn't worry about this, unless you are very anxious to be able to vote in elections.
scarface_74 1 days ago [-]
> The citizenship part is the easiest part. You can never loose your citizenship, and it is in no way tied to your residency or your income/money.
If you are a citizen of a country that taxes your worldwide income - like the US it does affect your income. You want to be a citizen somewhere and not end up “stateless”
scarface_74 1 days ago [-]
Thats much easier - finding countries with lower taxation, citizenship via residency and stable economies. Your initial ask was way more complicated.
Look for countries where you just have to prove stable income, or do some type of investment in the country and then depending on the country it takes between 3-8 years to qualify for citizenship after you become a legal resident
scarface_74 2 days ago [-]
Right because the government doesn’t do anything for its citizens and no one should pay taxes anywhere.
Unless you can provid all of the infrastructure for yourself and insure your property rights are secured from people just taking them.
You realize you are going to have to “obey the laws” of whatever country you live in?
The only way you don’t involve some government in your life is to either live in on a boat or to live off the land in the woods somewhere
You know that LLC is also a legal construct you need a government to enforce. Do you plan to get a passport? Do you plan to be “stateless”? Plan on registering for the countries health care system?
carlosjobim 1 days ago [-]
Did you read the title of the thread?
scarface_74 1 days ago [-]
So does the title of thread automagically mean there is some method to avoid being ruled by some government except living in the woods or the middle of the ocean?
carlosjobim 15 hours ago [-]
Or on a beautiful beach surrounded by lovely people.
scarface_74 14 hours ago [-]
That beach is not under the jurisdiction of a government? Could I just run around naked without getting arrested?
idontwantthis 2 days ago [-]
You should pay a real certified accountant from your country to answer your questions.
o1o1o1 1 days ago [-]
The problem with this is that they usually have no idea about international set-ups and many of them are just interested in making money (unfortunately a lot of people are, because money is a very important aspect of our lives).
2 days ago [-]
scarface_74 2 days ago [-]
I just read the citations you posted. Do you make enough for it to be worth it?
From one of the citations
> The average digital nomad pays $64.76 per day in taxes they do not have to pay - that is over $23.000 per year. Imagine what you could do with all this money. Let us do the paperwork, while you travel the world*
$23K isn’t nothing. But I saved half that much just by moving from a relative low tax cost state (GA) to a state tax free state (FL).
If I lived in a state with higher state taxes and higher cost of living, I would have saved even more.
And anything you do, the first step is giving up your US citizenship since the US taxes worldwide income.
But then you need to have citizenship somewhere else or become “stateless”. From the few countries I looked at, it’s a 3-5 year process.
The US has a relatively strong passport (ranked 9th in the world). You would also have to give that up.
Cypress and Paraguay have strong passports (brought up in your second site).
Edit:
I see you aren’t a US resident. None of what I said applies to you. I’ll keep it up anyway for anyone else thinking about something similar.
o1o1o1 1 days ago [-]
Answer to your first question: yes, even if it means paying such companies and, if necessary, additional tax lawyers, as income is taxed rather brutally in my home country.
Thanks for your input though, this is a valid concern and important to consider: amount of potential tax saved and citizenship.
Advice to all US citizens considering this: take a look at the power of passports, it can go a long way. Here is one of many sources to check: https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php
yellow_lead 20 hours ago [-]
> And anything you do, the first step is giving up your US citizenship since the US taxes worldwide income.
But the foreign earned income credit can reduce your tax liability by up to around 100k in some cases.
Rendered at 12:47:50 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Your biggest liability (tax-wise) is going to come from your revenue source. That's also where you should be careful. Next, is the country of your passport (because they got you by the **). Everybody else matter very little which is why you should steer away from Dubai, HK, off-shore, etc.. until you understand the nuances of your situation.
Avoid the need to pay in the first place instead of taking evasive action for payments demanded ;-)
Do these services provide you with legal representation towards your home country? My guess is probably not.
These services do not provide legal representation as far as I know.
Most countries except the US will not tax you if you move to another country.
Also, I am probably going to consult a tax lawyer there, but it still does not hurt to ask others about there experience I think.
Firstly, it's trivial for a business not to pay tax; simply don't make a profit. (Since you can simply assign any excess to yourself as salary.)
Of course you then gave a personal income tax question; and that has its own complications.
Staying with business; and assuming it makes a profit, you then have choices regarding where to register the company. At the one extreme you have zero-tax places (Isle of Man, Jersey et al) but they come with fixed high annual costs. (Not a "tax" - just payments for services.) Your choice is typically one of these, or the place you live, or the country of your passport.
Things like banking play a role. When you can't visit your bank it gets harder to resolve issues (like when they freeze the account because of money-laundering concerns.)
All this to say, Tax planning is complicated. And if you insist on playing games it gets very complicated. The internet I'd not the place to get advice. You need to speak to a professional, or more likely a professional in all the places that matter. If you are a US passport holder even more so.
Plus you would need customers who are cool with paying you through an entity like that.
The current laws in Thailand state that foreign sourced income is only taxed if it is remitted to Thailand (source: https://mahanakornpartners.com/overview-of-personal-income-t...).
So this should be an option, don't you think?
One country for citizenship, one country for residence, one country for your money.
This arrangement earns you a lifetime of peace of mind.
I think this is not so easy though, depending on the individual circumstances. My home country for example might want proof of my tax resident status of the past years if I ever decide to move there again, which will be difficult, if I have not been a tax resident anywhere. Of course this is easy when you reach a certain amount of wealth, but unfortunatelly I am not there yet and might need some time (if ever) to get there.
I understand at least having a dual residency as a back up plan and that’s our plan with establishing residency in Costa Rica before retirement and keeping our by then paid off condo in the US.
I haven’t researched anything aside from the US && (Costa Rica || Panama) scenario. There are really no tax advantages or disadvantages that way.
There are other countries (e.g. Cyprus) that do not require you to stay for 180 days or more to gain residency, so I think this is the kind of setup he is talking about.
The last piece of the puzzle would be international bank accounts, which gets easier the more money you have (e.g. HSBC Expat, which requires 50k USD to set up).
The real world application of this advice is that you don't ask for permission, and involve governments as little as possible in your life. This of course means that your source of income has to be adapted to this, usually meaning having your own LLC.
@scarface_74: My goal is to avoid a high tax that I am used to from my home country without getting (enough) in return in my opinion. I would rather take my chances and prepare for retirement etc myself than leave it to a government.
I never want to be "stateless", quite the opposite! I would like to collect some citizenships to have more freedom, because even with a strong rank other passports still give you access to different areas of the world.
I am fine with paying taxes if the rate seems fair (e.g. not 50% of my income if I am not a multi-millionaire) and if I get a good value for it. Yes, security is one of those values, but depending on your situation, a government may or may not be able to provide that (in my case, my home country was not able to do so, another good reason to believe that my tax is not being used well enough to achieve that goal).
The citizenship part is the easiest part. You can never loose your citizenship, and it is in no way tied to your residency or your income/money.
People who dream about migration almost always and erroneously believe that this means that they have to get on a path to new citizenship. But you shouldn't worry about this, unless you are very anxious to be able to vote in elections.
If you are a citizen of a country that taxes your worldwide income - like the US it does affect your income. You want to be a citizen somewhere and not end up “stateless”
Look for countries where you just have to prove stable income, or do some type of investment in the country and then depending on the country it takes between 3-8 years to qualify for citizenship after you become a legal resident
Unless you can provid all of the infrastructure for yourself and insure your property rights are secured from people just taking them.
You realize you are going to have to “obey the laws” of whatever country you live in?
The only way you don’t involve some government in your life is to either live in on a boat or to live off the land in the woods somewhere
You know that LLC is also a legal construct you need a government to enforce. Do you plan to get a passport? Do you plan to be “stateless”? Plan on registering for the countries health care system?
From one of the citations
> The average digital nomad pays $64.76 per day in taxes they do not have to pay - that is over $23.000 per year. Imagine what you could do with all this money. Let us do the paperwork, while you travel the world*
$23K isn’t nothing. But I saved half that much just by moving from a relative low tax cost state (GA) to a state tax free state (FL).
If I lived in a state with higher state taxes and higher cost of living, I would have saved even more.
And anything you do, the first step is giving up your US citizenship since the US taxes worldwide income.
But then you need to have citizenship somewhere else or become “stateless”. From the few countries I looked at, it’s a 3-5 year process.
The US has a relatively strong passport (ranked 9th in the world). You would also have to give that up.
Cypress and Paraguay have strong passports (brought up in your second site).
Edit:
I see you aren’t a US resident. None of what I said applies to you. I’ll keep it up anyway for anyone else thinking about something similar.
Thanks for your input though, this is a valid concern and important to consider: amount of potential tax saved and citizenship.
Advice to all US citizens considering this: take a look at the power of passports, it can go a long way. Here is one of many sources to check: https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php
But the foreign earned income credit can reduce your tax liability by up to around 100k in some cases.