The tech community has an interesting role to play here - I wonder how long it will take for gafam to start having issues recruiting skilled foreigners (or simply flying them to the US for interviews.)
It's not too much of a problem now, as t
Big Tech is not in the "software business" so much as in the "laying off people to make the stock look good" ; but at some point they'll have to bring people in to actually write code.
Or, are they expexting LLMs to really make the bulk of the jobs?
Or maybe everything settles down in two years, and this is just a bout of neo-McCarthyism.
Time will tell. In the meantime, I guess Europe must not be that bad, if people are organizing conferences here instead of China or Dubai ?
PLMUV9A4UP27D 2 hours ago [-]
At my company we make a niche software used by companies globally. Our plan was to arrange a conference in the US for our clients in North/Cental America. Considering the state of the US, we will probably cancel it, as we don't expect our Mexican and Canadian clients to feel comfortable at all. Neither do we at the head office in Europe.
We will instead host it in Europe most likely.
sterlind 1 hours ago [-]
I remember when the ACM ICPC had to be moved from Egypt to the US during the Arab Spring. It's got to be a logistics nightmare to move a conference, but it's best to bite the bullet at the first sign of trouble.
rhaps0dy 2 hours ago [-]
You could host it in Mexico or Canada, they're pretty nice!
assimpleaspossi 1 minutes ago [-]
Aren't there still violent conflicts with drug gangs where citizens are killed still going on in Mexico?
Teever 1 hours ago [-]
That's a great idea. I can't speak about Mexican alternatives but there are many great locations in Canada for a conference.
If the conference was originally going to be held on the west coast of the US then Vancouver would be an excellent alternative and if it was going to be held on the east coast then Montreal is another excellent alternative.
Can anyone suggest some viable alternatives in Mexico?
kamma4434 1 hours ago [-]
Depends on when the conference is scheduled, but Mexico has some world renewed venues at the seaside - say Cancun- that nobody minds visiting when it’s winter at home. :-)
readthenotes1 54 minutes ago [-]
I noted that a bunch of physicists met in Cancun on December 10th to discuss the new Galaxy survey that led to questioning the stability of the strength of deep energy.
Those guys were pretty smart
japanuspus 22 minutes ago [-]
Traveling to awesome places is a perk of (physics) academia that is not widely appreciated. A large fraction of physicist seems to do rock-climbing or other hobbies that align well with exploring the outdoors when traveling.
I got my first taste of this with this was a summer school at Les Houches in the French Alps [0], and after graduating I did postdoc positions on three different continents -- all the time appreciating that unlike corporate expats, I got to choose the exact place to go next. Would highly recommend this way of traveling over backpacking.
I work for a US company that almost exclusively hosts internal get-togethers in Cancun.
It's much better value for money than anywhere in the US.
rhaps0dy 1 hours ago [-]
I've been in conferences in Ciudad de México and it was a very pleasant experience. I honestly haven't been anywhere else in Mexico.
purplezooey 50 minutes ago [-]
I have been going to IETFs on and off for 20 years. As if the past few months were not nauseating enough in the US, I never thought I would see my own country on a page like this, and described in this way, and I feel even more deeply saddened, ashamed and horrified.
anfilt 1 hours ago [-]
RISC-V moved to Switzerland as well a while ago. I think it's a shame to see stuff like this happening. Regardless, of where one stands currently in the current environment making standards bodies want to move or move events to other countries is not a good.
tossandthrow 55 minutes ago [-]
Regardless of the political situation, the EU is probably a more friendly environment for a standards body taking their stance in interoperability into account.
dtquad 17 minutes ago [-]
Not all EU countries are the same. I would avoid Hungary, Slovakia, and former Eastern Germany (except Berlin).
perching_aix 6 minutes ago [-]
Why?
pesho 38 seconds ago [-]
They're one of the best places in Europe right now, actually.
tczMUFlmoNk 2 hours ago [-]
Thank you. I am in the U.S. and am threatened by these measures. I'm not a member of the IETF, but I rely on their work heavily, and the solidarity is meaningful.
userbinator 55 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
jakelazaroff 52 minutes ago [-]
This would have been a much better comment without the scare quotes.
userbinator 34 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
oefrha 1 hours ago [-]
Reminds me of [1] from 2013, and [2][3] from 2017. This is not new at all, just affecting more people, and more importantly, more Western people now.
Clarification: the “not new” part is foreign attendees not being able to attend conferences in the U.S. So, if you valued inclusion, holding international conferences in the U.S. has been a bad idea for a long time.
guesswho_ 28 minutes ago [-]
> more importantly, more Western people now
OK. Sure western people are more valuable.
mmooss 1 hours ago [-]
The first isn't the same at all: Chinese scientists were prevented from attending based on an official government policy, not randomly arrested and detained.
The second and third are the same incident, from the prior Trump administration. But the visa was denied; nobody was arrested or detained.
oefrha 1 hours ago [-]
People are randomly arrested and detained base on official government policy. And they have been arresting and detaining people long before Jan 2024, but it was scaled up recently. A recent story made it clear that some people with minor visa overstays have already been detained for months: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410548
The fact is if you care about people from all around the world being able to attend your conference, the U.S. hasn’t been a good location for a long time. That’s not new. In fact [2][3] is only noteworthy because it was an influential individual (in this circle) with a strong passport; people with weaker passports are routinely denied. Hell sometimes UN diplomats are denied.
mmooss 1 hours ago [-]
> People are randomly arrested and detained base on official government policy.
Right, but you did not give examples of that happening previously.
oefrha 1 hours ago [-]
Once again, when I say “not new” I’m talking about
> The fact is if you care about people from all around the world being able to attend your conference, the U.S. hasn’t been a good location for a long time.
TFA says
> As an Internet community we strive to include everyone. Holding a meeting in the US is incompatible with our values.
It’s been incompatible with their values for very long.
jeltz 1 hours ago [-]
You are arguing with someone who agrees with you but wanted to point out that your examples were bad and did not support your position that well.
oefrha 58 minutes ago [-]
No, I’m arguing with someone who thinks I’m saying arbitrary arrests are not new (in fact I believe those aren’t new either, but I’m not arguing that and can’t be bothered to dig up sources), when I’m saying not being able to attend conferences in the U.S. is not new.
sam-cop-vimes 1 hours ago [-]
Hear hear. Great initiative. I am not in the US but I do feel threatened by the way the US is conducting itself these days. It's time for people working in tech to push back.
promiseofbeans 30 minutes ago [-]
Regardless of your take on this, it's very interesting to see the UI components they're using. These look identical to the gov.uk system, but I wasn't aware of it being available for use outside of their government websites.
(Apart from the GDS Transport font, which is exclusive to GOV.UK websites)
edwardjlsh 7 minutes ago [-]
> Some have been tortured.
Any reputable news sources for this?
oldgradstudent 1 hours ago [-]
Is this a parody?
> Beyond problems at the border, the current Secretary for Health and Human Services - Robert F. Kennedy Jr. - has said that he will send those with ADHD to camps. Source: Futurism.
What he actually said:
> "I’m going to dedicate that revenue to creating wellness farms — drug rehabilitation farms, in rural areas all over this country," he said during the podcast. "I’m going to make it so people can go, if you’re convicted of a drug offense, or if you have a drug problem, you can go to one of these places for free."
That what happens when you rely on Futurism as a source.
graeme 46 minutes ago [-]
The full quote extends that to adderal. To be clear he said the wellness farms would be for those who want to go, and he's describing a massive undertaking that you'd see coming before it was implemented.
But he was definitely talking about ADHD. This tweet has the short video of him actually including adderal.
In a historical context “wellness farms” is understood as a euphemism for concentration camp. It’s free but you can’t leave.
silisili 46 minutes ago [-]
If you talk to a parent of a child who OD'd, most commonly of fent these days, they all have this thought.
What if I took them somewhere remote where there are no drugs and didn't let them leave?
My heart hurts for them, but I have no idea if it's a good idea or not.
Regardless, I think his heart is in the right place. Time will tell whether or not it's actually useful.
rswail 25 minutes ago [-]
If the parents went with the child, and stayed with them, then maybe.
But they don't, they outsource the job to a group of (mostly) sadistic, uneducated-in-rehab, "boot camps" that somehow think that violently invading an individual's rights and actions is how to "cure" drug addiction, without attempting to treat the underlying causes of addictive behavior.
croes 39 minutes ago [-]
They had camps to cure gayness.
The problem isn’t the camps but the people who have the authority in them and how the treat people especially if the cure isn’t working.
Not everything can be cured by organic food, fresh air and labor.
BTW is the food the grow for the farms only or is selling it part of the plan?
If the latter then it’s about cheap labor
silisili 32 minutes ago [-]
Yes and we used to kill witches for being... different.
That is to say, to any sane modern human, curing gayness is nothing like curing drug addiction.
We have to do something. Because whatever we've been doing for the past two decades has amounted to nothing.
And maybe that ends up being the answer, that there is nothing you can do. But I'll never insult someone for trying, no matter the method.
croes 16 minutes ago [-]
People are still killed for being different, they just aren’t called witches.
>But I'll never insult someone for trying, no matter the method.
No matter the method is a bad take, that’s how we got gruesome people doing gruesome experiments on people who need treatment.
And the camp thing is pretty old and they always end the same: abuse of power.
silisili 1 minutes ago [-]
> No matter the method is a bad take
Perhaps, but I have family going through this and it just makes you so mad. I'd pay to send him to a camp where he's beat with a bullwhip every day if I knew it could cure him.
Perhaps it clouds my judgment a bit, but the alternative is just watching him die, which I'm not stoked about.
lynx97 14 minutes ago [-]
No just parents. Its a method that actual addicts employ. I have heard this not only once. "Moved a few months to a rural place where I had no access to the stuff to get my system clean" is a tactic that people turn to. Heck, one example I am thinking of even moved from the USA to Europe in the 90s to get rid of his crack addiction.
InvisibleUp 20 minutes ago [-]
There’s a webcomic, “Joe vs. Elan School”, that might be an enlightening read for you.
silisili 11 minutes ago [-]
This actually resonates a bit with my own thoughts from these comments.
If we assume a drug abuser is doomed for death in the next 6 months. But by using them as slave labor in terrible conditions for 3 years guarantees they will live to old age, regardless of any psychological trauma from said experience, is it worth it?
I'm not taking a position, I'm just making a thought experiment. It's more of a moral philosophical thing than an answer, I guess.
I think a lot of people not in the midwest may not understand the gravity of the fentanyl problem in the US. Literally every family is affected, whether directly or indirectly.
bitwize 6 minutes ago [-]
That's how kids end up at Elan School.
The current administration is setting up a modern day Spiegelgrund.
snotrockets 37 minutes ago [-]
He has no heart. He is cruel, as he subscribes to the idea that a disease isn’t something you get because you rolled the dice wrong, but something that can be avoided by being “pure”. For him, pure health is never systematic or unlucky; the person is at fault.
This is not only immoral and vile, but borders on the psychopathic. The man should have never been allowed to make any decision affecting public health.
creddit 48 minutes ago [-]
In what historical context was “wellness farm” used as a euphemism?
froh 39 minutes ago [-]
would you, in the context of fascist Germany or other totalitarian regimes with concentration camps, not understand the quoted text as cynical euphemism for such camps?
this understanding of metaphors is not that it was used then. the understanding happens today a contemporary application of historical knowledge.
and honestly, it's obvious.
vasco 29 minutes ago [-]
It's not after that fact, or any euphemism - this is the exact way the regime tried to pass them off at the time. Germany called the concentration camps luxurious places to hangout and learn skills and rehabilitate, with post office, frequent movie screenings, a swimming pool, nice beds. The reality was much different as we know. They did have a small pool on the grounds for show.
Oh so you mean it wasn’t used that way in a historical context? Got it.
froh 3 minutes ago [-]
no I was explaining what understanding in historic context means.
mrtesthah 27 minutes ago [-]
Arbeit macht frei.
gherkinnn 40 minutes ago [-]
The full quote, as per Futurism: (emphasis mine)
> I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it — to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,
I am not going to skim through 1.5h of deranged ramblings in a raspy voice to find him saying this though.
BlackjackCF 38 minutes ago [-]
If RFK’s comments were made in isolation, I wouldn’t be so worried.
However, you put it in context with the fact that this administration has shipped off people to an El Salvadoran prison without any due process… this becomes a lot more ominous.
creddit 55 minutes ago [-]
Yes and some of the links to the “traumatizing” deportations are for people who are clearly in violation of their visas.
I had a friend deported from Denmark when he overstayed his visa and it was basically the same thing.
Some of these look really bad and could be sensible justification for the proposed boycott/cancellation (see French scientist eg) but a lot of it looks completely hysterical.
someothherguyy 39 minutes ago [-]
> a lot of it looks completely hysterical
Some bad history with executive orders / The Alien Enemies Act and interning people in the US:
Because two weeks in jail what could be a simple flight home sounds fishy.
And I wouldn’t want to gamble if I‘m one of the unlucky ones that you described as looking bad.
That kind of uncertainty is exactly what makes those travels unnecessarily dangerous.
That’s not hysterical it‘s cautious.
creddit 15 minutes ago [-]
I don’t quite remember and would have to ask. I think he was detained for 5 days, maybe?
> Because two weeks in jail what could be a simple flight home sounds fishy.
The inefficiency of American institutions is nearly limitless. Don’t put too much stock in the glacial pace of our bureaucracy as being malicious when it happens everywhere else out of broad incompetence.
> That’s not hysterical it‘s cautious.
Again, I agree that there are a few stories of deportations that are legitimate causes for concern about hosting a conference with internationals in the US. But if you use people getting deported for overstaying their visas as a part of justifying that concern, then that is hysterical. It conflates issues that are effectively totally unrelated to one another.
It would be like claiming it’s not safe to travel to Italy because the local justice systems will charge you with trumped up charges and quote both the Amanda Knox case as well as cases where Americans actually broke the law and got charged justly. Only the Amanda Knox case is actual justification for the claim!
jrflowers 24 minutes ago [-]
I like that you scrolled past the relevant paragraph here and then quoted a different thing that he said as proof that the paragraph that you ignored didn’t exist. I’m curious as to why you would bother including a real quote from the article? If your starting point for crafting a post is “Nobody will read the article I’m talking about” the sky is the limit, you could say he said anything you like.
rswail 23 minutes ago [-]
Considering he has been a lifelong addict to various drugs, with endless wealth to be sent to "wellness farms", I'd take his opinion on how to treat any disease with the same perspective as I would any other drug-addled, brain-holed, rich narcissist, that caused his wife to commit suicide.
In other words, his opinion isn't worth the electronic bits needed to spread them.
croes 43 minutes ago [-]
First you can go and leave as you like, then you can go but can’t leave, then you have to go.
Given the things he said about vaccines and bird flu, I wouldn’t trust him an inch.
gabaix 46 minutes ago [-]
> Some have been tortured.
Is there any evidence of this?
18 minutes ago [-]
z3ratul163071 6 minutes ago [-]
We truly live in an idiocracy.
It is Internet Engineering Task Force FFS. Not a gender studies convention. Get out of our lawn.
spiderfarmer 1 hours ago [-]
I heard last night from my friend who works in astronomy that they decided to cancel their event in the US and let the US attendees travel to Europe instead.
I can’t get used to the fact that the US seems dead set on destroying its reputation in the world.
But with the direction the comment section of HN has taken over the last few years I’m sure there will be lots of commenters who will dismiss this as virtue signaling.
nextts 1 hours ago [-]
It is real. It is interesting, because I don't think US wars or international interference over the years have caused this effect but now people are avoiding the US for pure "look out for number 1" reasons. I.e. it isn't safe enough for them to enter and it ain't worth the risk for some conference, holiday or work thing.
croes 23 minutes ago [-]
Because the wars didn‘t affect white people or people of certain countries
The targets usually have darker skin or are from countries far more east, but now it affects people like themselves.
arketyp 1 hours ago [-]
I understand the sentiment that the Trump administration is draconian, especially for people traveling from abroad considering the new border policy. But, pardon me, how is that executive order about sex a "threat"? Listed as the top issue undermines the credibility of this petition I think.
sterlind 36 minutes ago [-]
if a post-op trans woman is arrested, she's denied access to HRT and sent to a men's prison, where she will be given to violent male inmates to pacify them. this is known as v-coding. even having a vagina doesn't exempt you from men's prison, it just makes you more likely to be repeatedly raped as the justice system grinds on. this was already the case in some US states but the EO makes it Federal.
the State Department has also announced that it considers sex markers that don't correspond to sex at birth to be fraudulent. ostensibly for the sports ban, but it actually applies to all visa applications and documentation.
combine those two facts with the administration's stated antipathy towards us, and the recent trend of Germans and Canadians being detained for weeks with no apparent cause, and I think you should see why trans women ought to avoid US travel right now.
throwawayk7h 59 minutes ago [-]
It's a threat to transgender travellers; I know many in the tech industry. The U.S. is now denying entry visas to transgender travellers as well.
koakuma-chan 53 minutes ago [-]
I read the order and it sounds reasonable
throwawayk7h 35 minutes ago [-]
The order being reasonable or not is not germane to the topic at hand. It isn't relevant what sex a transgender person is defined to be. What matters to the boycott is that transgender people in tech are facing difficulty entering the U.S. to attend the conference. Wouldn't you agree that's a problem?
koakuma-chan 15 minutes ago [-]
> It isn't relevant what sex a transgender person is defined to be.
The U.S. does not care what you self-identify as. The U.S. cares though if you try to fake your biological sex. Read Sec. 2. (f) of the order.
throwawayk7h 10 minutes ago [-]
Right. I think I was unclear -- my point is that whether or not you agree with the E.O., you must surely agree it makes travel to the U.S. difficult for transgender travellers, right? And that's a problem for the conference.
djantje 26 minutes ago [-]
Well, reality is more complex then this.
It misses intersex as a biological option.
Not common, but still, it is not in there, but reality for some humans.
spartanatreyu 29 minutes ago [-]
The orders are supposed to "sound" reasonable. If it was obvious what the consequences of the order were to everyone, it would be far less palatable.
arketyp 28 minutes ago [-]
That's perhaps repulsive. Using words like "threat" though is precisely the kind of unhinged language that has lead to these overshot compensatory actions, in my opinion.
throwawayk7h 13 minutes ago [-]
How is this not a threat to transgender travellers?
viraptor 44 minutes ago [-]
Check out all the issues currently faced by people with either updated or X gender on their documents. Look at what happens with documents at government level that use even vaguely trans-related words. Do you get why people would see erasure like that as threat, given historical context?
tdeck 10 minutes ago [-]
Just to add one more example, the anti-trans frenzy led someone to call the cops on a cisgender lesbian woman who was using the women's restroom, where the male cops barged in to arrest her:
There is no threat from the executive order. It’s basically about protecting spaces meant for biological women like in sports, recognizing the definitions that already exist for words like “sex”, and ensuring government run spaces (like prisons) are separated based on sex and not fuzzy ideas of “gender identity”.
This petition is just another tired partisan attack. Like a lot of empty outrage stories, it makes hysterical claims about safety that aren’t based on reality. And of course the people signing it were not going to go anyways and frankly it doesn’t matter if they’re there or not.
throwawayk7h 7 minutes ago [-]
I mentioned this elsewhere, but the U.S. is already denying entry visas for transgender travellers, either as a follow-up to this E.O. or based on the same principles as it. This doesn't seem hysterical to me.
0x127AB3128 47 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
mmooss 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
kazinator 46 minutes ago [-]
> doing things unpredictably and appearing arbitrary, they try to create a situation where feels safe - it could happen to anyone.
This is a great point: doing menacing things here and there creates a sort of illusion that they can do menacing things everywhere at once, which they actually cannot.
cma 1 hours ago [-]
> yet it was actually no threat at all to US security or even NY security, beyond ~two buildings.
If we're talking about carried out threat and not achieved aims: there were more than those two flights and more than those two buildings targeted. And even if you are talking about achieved aims only: the Pentagon was hit as well if you are forgetting that or maybe that just belongs in the '~'. In fact more than two buildings in NYC itself were destroyed, even if only two there were targeted.
The seat of the main elected branch of government (US Capitol) was targeted and likely would have been struck without the passenger interventions (fighter jets had been sent out towards the atlantic ocean and FAA had not yet ordered all planes grounded even if NORAD had been alerted by that point). We were very lucky passengers and crew had made airphone calls and some disallowed cell phone calls to get enough critical mass to fight back.
I think the subsequent war on terror, used to invade Iraq without any relation to the attack, was terrible, but this kind of deflation is pretty insane to read.
Calwestjobs 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
userbinator 33 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
guesswho_ 25 minutes ago [-]
Ye, brother
unethical_ban 23 minutes ago [-]
Right? This is hacker news, not reddit. Whether one finds their stance silly or not, one should respect that real people are making real decisions to skip a conference. This isn't a meme.
Our country is being destroyed and I don't mind some foreigners putting pressure on our society to get our shit together.
userbinator 40 seconds ago [-]
Stop with the hysterics. The worst parts of our country are "being destroyed".
geeezzzzzz 46 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
Abdgaf15957 30 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
userbinator 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
blackeyeblitzar 38 minutes ago [-]
This is just activist extremism. There’s no threat to anyone’s safety. The US is perfectly safe to visit. Activists who are in opposition to the US presidency are overreacting to a few lone cases of people being detained at borders without knowing the details of those situations. Three of the stories linked are from the guardian, a far left publication (https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart) that has been attacking the Trump administration. All of the stories lack details and evidence of wrongdoing. So this just looks like hysteria and manufactured outrage. Unfortunately it looks like people here are eating up the outrage bait.
croes 18 minutes ago [-]
The german cases are true and there is nothing you can say that would justify putting people in prison for multiple days without their relatives knowing what’s happening.
There is also no evidence of them of any wrongdoing. Just claims by the ICE.
andy-p 19 minutes ago [-]
The fact that the current administration and its supporters have managed to categorize The Guardian in this manner speaks volumes about their goals wrt any media that attempts to hold them to account.
spartanatreyu 14 minutes ago [-]
> This is just activist extremism. There’s no threat to anyone’s safety. The US is perfectly safe to visit.
Except the link you're responding to is literally linking to reports of threats to safety.
> Activists who are in opposition to the US presidency are overreacting to a few lone cases of people being detained at borders without knowing the details of those situations.
We know more than enough to point out that it shouldn't have happened at all. Even without those incidents, the previous concentration camps are not acceptable.
> Three of the stories linked are from the guardian, a far left publication that has been attacking the Trump administration.
The Guardian is a centre-left outlet, not a far-left outlet. Also, other outlets across the political bias spectrum are reporting the same thing so your comment here is boiling down to ignoring the message and attacking the messenger.
> All of the stories lack details and evidence of wrongdoing. So this just looks like hysteria and manufactured outrage.
You mean, except for the details, and the evidence of wrongdoing?
snotrockets 36 minutes ago [-]
Tell that to your trans* colleagues.
blackeyeblitzar 8 minutes ago [-]
If they’re threatened by an administration recognizing basic biological facts, and having the decency to defend women, that’s their problem to sort out. But thankfully most people aren’t that unreasonable. A lot of trans people agree that biological differences are real and things like males participating in female sports is just ridiculous and unfair.
stopdadrama 32 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
rswail 20 minutes ago [-]
Calling the Guardian "far left" shows your biases and where the Overton window is in the US now.
The rest of the world is basically telling the US to fuck off.
You'll get the message eventually, when it will be too late.
Good luck on making it to your 250th birthday as a republic, let alone a democracy.
stopdadrama 40 minutes ago [-]
Americans trying to explain to the rest of the world that the US has gone completely mad... by adopting policies that are pretty much the norm in 95% of the world's countries.
croes 27 minutes ago [-]
95% of the world put people in privately owned prisons so that someone get make some money from the government and the imprisoned before their flight back home?
Hamuko 39 minutes ago [-]
95% of the world's countries inspect your phone at the border for messages critical of the government?
stopdadrama 36 minutes ago [-]
No, you're right, most countries are havens of privacy and free speech where you can say whatever about the government. The US clearly is an exception there.
unethical_ban 31 minutes ago [-]
Begone, greentext troll. Use your real handle.
Rendered at 07:14:08 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
It's not too much of a problem now, as t Big Tech is not in the "software business" so much as in the "laying off people to make the stock look good" ; but at some point they'll have to bring people in to actually write code.
Or, are they expexting LLMs to really make the bulk of the jobs?
Or maybe everything settles down in two years, and this is just a bout of neo-McCarthyism.
Time will tell. In the meantime, I guess Europe must not be that bad, if people are organizing conferences here instead of China or Dubai ?
If the conference was originally going to be held on the west coast of the US then Vancouver would be an excellent alternative and if it was going to be held on the east coast then Montreal is another excellent alternative.
Can anyone suggest some viable alternatives in Mexico?
Those guys were pretty smart
I got my first taste of this with this was a summer school at Les Houches in the French Alps [0], and after graduating I did postdoc positions on three different continents -- all the time appreciating that unlike corporate expats, I got to choose the exact place to go next. Would highly recommend this way of traveling over backpacking.
[0] https://www.houches-school-physics.com/ecole-de-physique-des...
It's much better value for money than anywhere in the US.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/05/us-scientist...
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14643467
[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24369233
Clarification: the “not new” part is foreign attendees not being able to attend conferences in the U.S. So, if you valued inclusion, holding international conferences in the U.S. has been a bad idea for a long time.
OK. Sure western people are more valuable.
The second and third are the same incident, from the prior Trump administration. But the visa was denied; nobody was arrested or detained.
The fact is if you care about people from all around the world being able to attend your conference, the U.S. hasn’t been a good location for a long time. That’s not new. In fact [2][3] is only noteworthy because it was an influential individual (in this circle) with a strong passport; people with weaker passports are routinely denied. Hell sometimes UN diplomats are denied.
Right, but you did not give examples of that happening previously.
> The fact is if you care about people from all around the world being able to attend your conference, the U.S. hasn’t been a good location for a long time.
TFA says
> As an Internet community we strive to include everyone. Holding a meeting in the US is incompatible with our values.
It’s been incompatible with their values for very long.
(Apart from the GDS Transport font, which is exclusive to GOV.UK websites)
Any reputable news sources for this?
> Beyond problems at the border, the current Secretary for Health and Human Services - Robert F. Kennedy Jr. - has said that he will send those with ADHD to camps. Source: Futurism.
What he actually said:
> "I’m going to dedicate that revenue to creating wellness farms — drug rehabilitation farms, in rural areas all over this country," he said during the podcast. "I’m going to make it so people can go, if you’re convicted of a drug offense, or if you have a drug problem, you can go to one of these places for free."
That what happens when you rely on Futurism as a source.
But he was definitely talking about ADHD. This tweet has the short video of him actually including adderal.
https://x.com/MotherJones/status/1816180369110270435
What if I took them somewhere remote where there are no drugs and didn't let them leave?
My heart hurts for them, but I have no idea if it's a good idea or not.
Regardless, I think his heart is in the right place. Time will tell whether or not it's actually useful.
But they don't, they outsource the job to a group of (mostly) sadistic, uneducated-in-rehab, "boot camps" that somehow think that violently invading an individual's rights and actions is how to "cure" drug addiction, without attempting to treat the underlying causes of addictive behavior.
The problem isn’t the camps but the people who have the authority in them and how the treat people especially if the cure isn’t working.
Not everything can be cured by organic food, fresh air and labor.
BTW is the food the grow for the farms only or is selling it part of the plan?
If the latter then it’s about cheap labor
That is to say, to any sane modern human, curing gayness is nothing like curing drug addiction.
We have to do something. Because whatever we've been doing for the past two decades has amounted to nothing.
And maybe that ends up being the answer, that there is nothing you can do. But I'll never insult someone for trying, no matter the method.
>But I'll never insult someone for trying, no matter the method.
No matter the method is a bad take, that’s how we got gruesome people doing gruesome experiments on people who need treatment.
And the camp thing is pretty old and they always end the same: abuse of power.
Perhaps, but I have family going through this and it just makes you so mad. I'd pay to send him to a camp where he's beat with a bullwhip every day if I knew it could cure him.
Perhaps it clouds my judgment a bit, but the alternative is just watching him die, which I'm not stoked about.
If we assume a drug abuser is doomed for death in the next 6 months. But by using them as slave labor in terrible conditions for 3 years guarantees they will live to old age, regardless of any psychological trauma from said experience, is it worth it?
I'm not taking a position, I'm just making a thought experiment. It's more of a moral philosophical thing than an answer, I guess.
I think a lot of people not in the midwest may not understand the gravity of the fentanyl problem in the US. Literally every family is affected, whether directly or indirectly.
The current administration is setting up a modern day Spiegelgrund.
This is not only immoral and vile, but borders on the psychopathic. The man should have never been allowed to make any decision affecting public health.
this understanding of metaphors is not that it was used then. the understanding happens today a contemporary application of historical knowledge.
and honestly, it's obvious.
https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/lying-about-ausc...
> I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it — to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,
I am not going to skim through 1.5h of deranged ramblings in a raspy voice to find him saying this though.
However, you put it in context with the fact that this administration has shipped off people to an El Salvadoran prison without any due process… this becomes a lot more ominous.
I had a friend deported from Denmark when he overstayed his visa and it was basically the same thing.
Some of these look really bad and could be sensible justification for the proposed boycott/cancellation (see French scientist eg) but a lot of it looks completely hysterical.
Some bad history with executive orders / The Alien Enemies Act and interning people in the US:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans
Also, the current administration stated an intent to relocate (intern / reeducate?) the homeless, many of whom are citizens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_47#Social_issues
Because two weeks in jail what could be a simple flight home sounds fishy.
And I wouldn’t want to gamble if I‘m one of the unlucky ones that you described as looking bad.
That kind of uncertainty is exactly what makes those travels unnecessarily dangerous.
That’s not hysterical it‘s cautious.
> Because two weeks in jail what could be a simple flight home sounds fishy.
The inefficiency of American institutions is nearly limitless. Don’t put too much stock in the glacial pace of our bureaucracy as being malicious when it happens everywhere else out of broad incompetence.
> That’s not hysterical it‘s cautious.
Again, I agree that there are a few stories of deportations that are legitimate causes for concern about hosting a conference with internationals in the US. But if you use people getting deported for overstaying their visas as a part of justifying that concern, then that is hysterical. It conflates issues that are effectively totally unrelated to one another.
It would be like claiming it’s not safe to travel to Italy because the local justice systems will charge you with trumped up charges and quote both the Amanda Knox case as well as cases where Americans actually broke the law and got charged justly. Only the Amanda Knox case is actual justification for the claim!
In other words, his opinion isn't worth the electronic bits needed to spread them.
Given the things he said about vaccines and bird flu, I wouldn’t trust him an inch.
Is there any evidence of this?
It is Internet Engineering Task Force FFS. Not a gender studies convention. Get out of our lawn.
I can’t get used to the fact that the US seems dead set on destroying its reputation in the world.
But with the direction the comment section of HN has taken over the last few years I’m sure there will be lots of commenters who will dismiss this as virtue signaling.
The targets usually have darker skin or are from countries far more east, but now it affects people like themselves.
the State Department has also announced that it considers sex markers that don't correspond to sex at birth to be fraudulent. ostensibly for the sports ban, but it actually applies to all visa applications and documentation.
combine those two facts with the administration's stated antipathy towards us, and the recent trend of Germans and Canadians being detained for weeks with no apparent cause, and I think you should see why trans women ought to avoid US travel right now.
The U.S. does not care what you self-identify as. The U.S. cares though if you try to fake your biological sex. Read Sec. 2. (f) of the order.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/03/cops-burst-into-womens-r...
This petition is just another tired partisan attack. Like a lot of empty outrage stories, it makes hysterical claims about safety that aren’t based on reality. And of course the people signing it were not going to go anyways and frankly it doesn’t matter if they’re there or not.
This is a great point: doing menacing things here and there creates a sort of illusion that they can do menacing things everywhere at once, which they actually cannot.
If we're talking about carried out threat and not achieved aims: there were more than those two flights and more than those two buildings targeted. And even if you are talking about achieved aims only: the Pentagon was hit as well if you are forgetting that or maybe that just belongs in the '~'. In fact more than two buildings in NYC itself were destroyed, even if only two there were targeted.
The seat of the main elected branch of government (US Capitol) was targeted and likely would have been struck without the passenger interventions (fighter jets had been sent out towards the atlantic ocean and FAA had not yet ordered all planes grounded even if NORAD had been alerted by that point). We were very lucky passengers and crew had made airphone calls and some disallowed cell phone calls to get enough critical mass to fight back.
I think the subsequent war on terror, used to invade Iraq without any relation to the attack, was terrible, but this kind of deflation is pretty insane to read.
Our country is being destroyed and I don't mind some foreigners putting pressure on our society to get our shit together.
There is also no evidence of them of any wrongdoing. Just claims by the ICE.
Except the link you're responding to is literally linking to reports of threats to safety.
> Activists who are in opposition to the US presidency are overreacting to a few lone cases of people being detained at borders without knowing the details of those situations.
We know more than enough to point out that it shouldn't have happened at all. Even without those incidents, the previous concentration camps are not acceptable.
> Three of the stories linked are from the guardian, a far left publication that has been attacking the Trump administration.
The Guardian is a centre-left outlet, not a far-left outlet. Also, other outlets across the political bias spectrum are reporting the same thing so your comment here is boiling down to ignoring the message and attacking the messenger.
> All of the stories lack details and evidence of wrongdoing. So this just looks like hysteria and manufactured outrage.
You mean, except for the details, and the evidence of wrongdoing?
The rest of the world is basically telling the US to fuck off.
You'll get the message eventually, when it will be too late.
Good luck on making it to your 250th birthday as a republic, let alone a democracy.