> Known as “Pocket 3,” the strip of forest roughly the size of the Vatican was among several left unclaimed by both countries after the Croatian war of independence ended in 1995.
How does this even happen? A surveying or mapping error? Is it intentional? Why doesn't either country try to claim it?
marc_abonce 3 days ago [-]
The border is a river. But rivers slightly change their course over time.
Croatia claims their original pre-Yugoslavia border, based on the historical course of the river. That's because some of its municipalities follow that old line. Serbia, on the other hand, claims that the current course of the river is the border.
The unclaimed land loophole happens because the curves of the old and new rivers intersect in a zigzag (or DNA-like) manner, so some pieces of land are claimed by both and some pieces are claimed by neither. The lands claimed by both have more value than the lands claimed by neither so neither country takes over those tiny, unpopulated strips of land because doing so would implicitly accept the other country's border claim and therefore serve as a surrender of the better lands to the other country.
Countries aren't created by being "declared", they're created by being recognized by other countries.
wkat4242 3 days ago [-]
Yeah it's a bit comparable to Sealand. It's cool them issuing passports and all but if nobody recognises them you might as well use your hacker space passport
manquer 3 days ago [-]
It is not that simple, you can "declare" states[1]
There are two main theories declarative and constitutive for state recognition.
The Article 3 of the 1933 Montevideo convention infers a state can exist even if no other state recognizes it. The convention was merely codification existing principles, so it is supposed to even non-signatories as long they are subject to international law. This view is endorsed by the EU and other entities.
The declarative theory states only four basic preconditions:
- A permanent population of residents/citizens
- A defined territory - need not be undisputed
- A government
- Ability to enter into relations with other states
The constitutive theory on other hand defines a state that has to be recognized by just one other state.
Recognition is merely paper legitimacy and about geopolitics and just esoteric aspect of international law.
In practice, as always it works quite differently basis power dynamics. There are many autonomous regions who have been basically independent for decades without recognition and other way round wide spread recognition without any autonomy.
For example Palestine is recognized by 147 UN member states compared to just 12 states that recognize Taiwan(ROC) and therefore not PRC[2] . In reality Taiwan deals with every single country in an informal capacity and their exports are core to the whole world.
There are states with no recognition like Somaliland but would be a state in the declarative theory. In addition to first three conditions being met, it has recently entered legal agreement with Ethiopia for port access, and has relationship with Taiwan etc, but it is not formally recognized by anyone.
---
[1] Sadly you cannot "declare" bankruptcy legally yet though ;)
[2] Technically Taiwan(ROC) and Mainland(PRC) both claim the entirety of China as either the successor(PRC) or continuation(ROC) of the state before 1949, so recognizing Taiwan means recognizing Taiwan claim over all of China and not recognizing PRC. There is no mechanism for recognizing current reality of two independent functioning states.
There used to be many more states which did recognized ROC over PRC, till 1971 even UN did not recognize PRC, but those numbers have dwindled and only very few mostly micro nations now still recognize Taiwan.
The history of how China and Taiwan use a lot of diplomacy, investments, loans and other inducements in return for recognition is quite interesting. It is possible in another 5-10 years not a single state would recognize Taiwan formally but everyone would happily work with them as though they are a state.
greiskul 3 days ago [-]
There is formal recognition, and real world recognition. Although few countries formally recognize Taiwan, I would say that most of the world recognizes it in practice. Just look at things like countries that accept Taiwanese passport https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Taiwan...
hmmokidk 3 days ago [-]
If no one contests it then it’s his. If one contests it then might tends to make right, unfortunately.
moduspol 3 days ago [-]
Of course, but don’t they have to be declared before being recognized? One step at a time!
decimalenough 3 days ago [-]
Isn't this the same place as the previously declared and equally non-existent micro nation of Liberland?
> Jackson says he now lives in “exile” in Dover, where he goes to the socializes with friends and plays video games.
polotics 3 days ago [-]
perfectly theme-consistent: he goes go the (pub that doesn't exist) socializes etc...
3 days ago [-]
3 days ago [-]
siva7 3 days ago [-]
Is this guy aware that these countries have fought a bloody war not long ago around land issues? Probably not the ones you wanna joke around.
BobbyTables2 3 days ago [-]
So he doesn’t have to pay property tax?
m463 3 days ago [-]
Does he get to collect it?
polotics 3 days ago [-]
The saying "You and what army?" comes to mind...
rekenaut 3 days ago [-]
If nobody else is claiming the land, you don’t even need one!
olddustytrail 3 days ago [-]
Move there and see how it works out.
dyauspitr 3 days ago [-]
The Croats have already destroyed their settlement once before
ranger_danger 3 days ago [-]
Sounds like an invasion to me.
4gotunameagain 3 days ago [-]
The article says that Jackson says he now lives in “exile” in Dover, where he goes to the socializes with friends and plays video games.
ahahaha
brahman88 3 days ago [-]
lol
reader9274 3 days ago [-]
He needs to also declare bankruptcy
onetokeoverthe 3 days ago [-]
[dead]
chihuahua 3 days ago [-]
[flagged]
MadnessASAP 3 days ago [-]
They have neither the proletariat nor the bourgeois to rebel against in order to form communisim. They do seem to have the tinpot dictator though, so that's a start.
Rendered at 03:00:44 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
How does this even happen? A surveying or mapping error? Is it intentional? Why doesn't either country try to claim it?
Croatia claims their original pre-Yugoslavia border, based on the historical course of the river. That's because some of its municipalities follow that old line. Serbia, on the other hand, claims that the current course of the river is the border.
The unclaimed land loophole happens because the curves of the old and new rivers intersect in a zigzag (or DNA-like) manner, so some pieces of land are claimed by both and some pieces are claimed by neither. The lands claimed by both have more value than the lands claimed by neither so neither country takes over those tiny, unpopulated strips of land because doing so would implicitly accept the other country's border claim and therefore serve as a surrender of the better lands to the other country.
Or at least that's my (mis?)understanding, here's more context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93Serbia_border_...
There are two main theories declarative and constitutive for state recognition.
The Article 3 of the 1933 Montevideo convention infers a state can exist even if no other state recognizes it. The convention was merely codification existing principles, so it is supposed to even non-signatories as long they are subject to international law. This view is endorsed by the EU and other entities.
The declarative theory states only four basic preconditions:
The constitutive theory on other hand defines a state that has to be recognized by just one other state.Recognition is merely paper legitimacy and about geopolitics and just esoteric aspect of international law.
In practice, as always it works quite differently basis power dynamics. There are many autonomous regions who have been basically independent for decades without recognition and other way round wide spread recognition without any autonomy.
For example Palestine is recognized by 147 UN member states compared to just 12 states that recognize Taiwan(ROC) and therefore not PRC[2] . In reality Taiwan deals with every single country in an informal capacity and their exports are core to the whole world.
There are states with no recognition like Somaliland but would be a state in the declarative theory. In addition to first three conditions being met, it has recently entered legal agreement with Ethiopia for port access, and has relationship with Taiwan etc, but it is not formally recognized by anyone.
---
[1] Sadly you cannot "declare" bankruptcy legally yet though ;)
[2] Technically Taiwan(ROC) and Mainland(PRC) both claim the entirety of China as either the successor(PRC) or continuation(ROC) of the state before 1949, so recognizing Taiwan means recognizing Taiwan claim over all of China and not recognizing PRC. There is no mechanism for recognizing current reality of two independent functioning states.
There used to be many more states which did recognized ROC over PRC, till 1971 even UN did not recognize PRC, but those numbers have dwindled and only very few mostly micro nations now still recognize Taiwan.
The history of how China and Taiwan use a lot of diplomacy, investments, loans and other inducements in return for recognition is quite interesting. It is possible in another 5-10 years not a single state would recognize Taiwan formally but everyone would happily work with them as though they are a state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvXrn3iQN7Q
> Jackson says he now lives in “exile” in Dover, where he goes to the socializes with friends and plays video games.
ahahaha