Not to alarm anyone, but when I ran this, the black ball eventually joined the dark side and the whole thing ended up black. I’m sure this doesn’t mean anything for the greater universe.
soneca 159 days ago [-]
This happened to me in the original site. I think it happens when the white and black balls collide at the exact same spot of the border.
francisduvivier 159 days ago [-]
I think it's just a tunneling bug that happens when the point that make up the wall get messed up a enough. Almost never happens anymore in the v2[1] that I added. This one also allows you to see these points.
A little matter-antimatter asymmetry never hurt anyone
Cthulhu_ 159 days ago [-]
Here we have it, an internet toy demonstrating how this asymmetry occurred. I expect physics papers soon.
temp0826 159 days ago [-]
Nobel prizes for everyone!
nialv7 159 days ago [-]
black-white here doesn't mean bad-good. they just mean opposites, different aspects of things. I think wikipedia does a pretty good job explaining it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang
9. (philosophy) "female" principle; yin in yin-yang
10. in intaglio
11. treacherous; deceitful; cheating
12. (dialectal) to deceive; to trick; to trap
13. (Chinese phonetics, of a syllable) open; not having a consonant coda
14. (Cantonese) bangs; fringe
15. genitalia (of humans)
16. a surname
The one (American) person I know who has 陰 as a surname reports that Chinese people are often shocked at her surname upon meeting her. I think it might be a bit like having the surname Death in English (https://www.ancestry.com/last-name-meaning/death?geo-lang=en...).
That is to say, black kind of does mean "bad" here, in the popular conception anyway. Taoism and Buddhism promote a worldview that sees birth and death, creation and destruction, as neither good nor bad, simply inseparable parts of a larger whole. But most everyday people try to avoid darkness, death, destruction, cloudiness, gloominess, shadows, ghosts, treachery, traps, and so on, most of the time. It's more that Taoism teaches that this attempt is foolish.
Not all the senses are unpopular; plenty of people like human genitalia, the Moon, and intaglio, and the shady side of a river can be nicer when it's hot out.
raspasov 159 days ago [-]
The opposite can also happen (where the whole thing goes white).
bilbo-b-baggins 159 days ago [-]
Metaphor for American politics.
low_tech_punk 159 days ago [-]
maxwell's demon peeking from the dark side
camillomiller 159 days ago [-]
Had the same experience and derived an absolutely unexpected bout of deep existential anxiety from it. Going to touch grass now.
d4rkn0d3z 159 days ago [-]
Tunneling.
gedy 159 days ago [-]
"I am.. Tetsuo."
Hendrikto 159 days ago [-]
> vibe forked a speed control slider
Very on brand, it does not work correctly. I can turn the speed up but not back down again.
francisduvivier 159 days ago [-]
Yes true :D, I kind of just want to blame gpt-5 mini for it and that's one of the bad things about the bad coding, I immediately loose part of the sense of ownership and responsibility. I don't feel like I made it, I just managed it.
Now to be honest I saw this bug, but I decided to just release it anyways because I also already had the v2 in the works which incidentally already had this issue fixed.
rnotaro 159 days ago [-]
This vibed coded implementation is buggy.
If you go to 64.00×, it can't slow back anymore.
francisduvivier 159 days ago [-]
Well that's fixed in the V2 with even more vibe coding:
Watching it at 100x is cool - you can just watch the border wiggle around (at this speed you may as well not even draw the balls).
patates 159 days ago [-]
I think next level would be custom shapes, custom starting areas, more colors, ability to change physics (add gravity?), and user interacting (being able to help a fellow struggling entity -a ball in this case-, when it gets worse).
Someone put this into an AI super duper thinking max edition, sprinkle some MCP on top and see what happens lol
nandomrumber 159 days ago [-]
Rapidly converging on Conways Game of Life
rottc0dd 159 days ago [-]
Nice work.
Still buggy. If you increase the ball size and increase the speed, the whole thing goes black/white in 10 seconds.
159 days ago [-]
hk__2 158 days ago [-]
> This vibed coded implementation is buggy.
Isn’t that the main characteristic of vibe-coded code anyway?
ks2048 159 days ago [-]
Yes, going to 32x also won't let you back down to 1x. (16x and lower - yes).
rhubarbtree 159 days ago [-]
Interesting data point on the vibe coding front, as this is very buggy. Doesn’t bode well for releasing an agent on a non-trivial problem!
narrator 159 days ago [-]
It looks like it converges to a normal distribution curve with white being the area under the curve.
loandbehold 159 days ago [-]
Why not other way around?
kelnos 159 days ago [-]
Feature request: show a "scoreboard", that is, with every collision, show the percent of the circle that's white, and percent that's black.
maxlin 159 days ago [-]
Thanks :D I did really want to know what kind of shape it would tend towards over time.
Running 100x for some moments, the white part got pincer maneuvered by the black and I ended up with the whole circle becoming black. Don't know what to think of that lol
159 days ago [-]
pmontra 159 days ago [-]
Of course we want to make a ball faster than the other one and let it win the struggle.
brcmthrowaway 159 days ago [-]
At fast speed I see a trail of the circles. What gives?
The cool thing about this is that it's self-balancing - if either side gets larger than the other due to random chance, the ball in that side will have more space to bounce in, and therefore bounce less often, slowing its growth. Meanwhile, the ball in the smaller side will bounce more often in its smaller space, making up the ground.
SonOfLilit 160 days ago [-]
There are stableish equilibria that are not 50-50, e.g. one color having a donut around the other color that has a donut hole.
istjohn 160 days ago [-]
Yes, because it's not actually area that balances out but mean time between bounce against the black/white boundary.
aoeusnth1 159 days ago [-]
That's not a stable equilibrium if the hits have a large enough effect with respect to the movement of the balls. The internal circle will create disturbances against both sides of the inner circle, but the outer ball will have to travel a longer distance to move from one side to the other to counter them.
n2d4 160 days ago [-]
Now the question remains, are there stableish equilibria that are 50/50? Splitting it into two half-circles sounds like an equilibrium at first glance, but I'm not convinced it is, as only a tiny bit of random luck seems to make it become a "horseshoe" pattern instead.
(That assumes that the simulation is randomized of course, which doesn't seem to be the case for the one in the link posted here.)
160 days ago [-]
160 days ago [-]
amelius 159 days ago [-]
It seems there is a parallel with physics: two pressurized chambers with equal pressure and a membrane separating them. The odd thing here is that there is only one molecule in each of them.
nandomrumber 159 days ago [-]
All models are wrong…
d4rkn0d3z 159 days ago [-]
But some are useful.
Animats 160 days ago [-]
It's amazing how stable it is. It's been running in a background tab for a hour now, and it still has the yin/yang look.
Liron 160 days ago [-]
I think the balls stop when the tab isn't focused
dotancohen 159 days ago [-]
That's in another two months.
poopsmithe 159 days ago [-]
Yeah, definitely run it in the foreground. Mine became completely black in about 3 hours.
Animats 159 days ago [-]
Me too. Does black always win? If so, why?
amelius 159 days ago [-]
But you can say the same thing about a circle with a straight line as separator.
teamworketernal 160 days ago [-]
I was cheering on the black circle's tunneling project when they both got caught in a rapid-fire spiral and the black one glitched through to the other side.
Same, if one of them punches through in one place, that hole shapes the angle of the bounces and reinforces itself and the other side fills in around the hole.
Insanity 160 days ago [-]
I guess it’s supposed to start on mouse move (based on skimming the source code).
On a phone it doesn’t seem to trigger unless I changed the background so I spent a minute just staring at the symbol without anything happening lol :D
chunkles 160 days ago [-]
If you tap on the ying-yang it starts.
bqmjjx0kac 160 days ago [-]
Hmm, not on iOS Safari.
Insanity 159 days ago [-]
Yup that’s the browser I am using as well.
throwaway314155 159 days ago [-]
change the background
Insanity 159 days ago [-]
Yup.. read my original comment :)
kingforaday 159 days ago [-]
You can press 'p' to show the points on the curves.
function keyPressed() {
if (key === 'p') SHOW_POINTS = !SHOW_POINTS;
}
I made a game on this principle many years ago. Two players with turn left,turn right, thrust and fire. You can only exist in your own space, shooting at the walls dug holes of your colour.
You had a bunch of critters scattered around the map trying to get home and you had to make paths for them while stopping your opponent from getting their critters home.
federico-peconi 160 days ago [-]
so simple yet so deep!
anyone willing to provide a math-proof like argument on why the shape seem to stick to the YY curve indefinitely as the "eternal" name suggests?
Should it always be this way or is there at least one bad initial bouncing configuration for which chaos can take place and we loose the YY curve?
Does not seem that obvious to me.
thejohnconway 159 days ago [-]
People are responding to you saying that it doesn't retain the yin-yang shape, but I've been watching for a while on 64x speed, and the yin-yang shape is one it repeatedly returns to.
I'm not even a dimwitted individual with an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology, but I can see what's happening intuitively. When one of the balls makes an indent large enough, that indent focusses the bounce from the circular edge which reinforces the indent further. This leads to a semi-stable shape where one of the balls is bouncing around a horseshoe and the other in a tunnel. However, if one side of the horseshoe becomes pinched small enough that ball is less likely to enter, that side of get eliminated, and you have a yin-yang.
More simply, the round edge seems to encourage tunnelling, and any asymmetry in the tunnelling is yin-yang-ish.
crazygringo 159 days ago [-]
It doesn't. It quickly just becomes a random curve after a few minutes at normal speed if you leave it open.
For obvious reasons it tends to stay half white half black (if one half gets smaller its ball will bounce faster) but the shape and its orientation varies randomly.
adtac 159 days ago [-]
wow not even yin-yang can escape entropy or the heat death of the universe
phreeza 159 days ago [-]
Off the top of my head, there is no mechanism for tension, so it would basically approach a random curve with equal white and black areas over time, but in addition there is the point reassignment function which acts as a kind of low pass filter so you get something that looks like a sinusoid?
stephenlf 160 days ago [-]
I think it’s just random chance. I haven’t run any simulations or anything, but I suspect the YY curve is no more stable than any simple 50-50 split. I bet over large timespans the YY curve straightens out just from entropy.
geor9e 160 days ago [-]
It doesn't. Seems to be like a lava lamp until one ball breaks thru. See the other comment with the console command to edit the speed.
panarchy 160 days ago [-]
$10 on black
mikedelfino 159 days ago [-]
Shouldn't each circle be pulling in its own color instead of pushing the other one out? Right now it looks like they're expanding the opposing color, when you'd think they'd be rooting for themselves.
guy2345 159 days ago [-]
without contrast no shapes would exist.
PlunderBunny 159 days ago [-]
Sometimes I see the 'border' move slightly where a ball hasn't hit it. I wonder if there's a fixed number of points in the border, and it's recalculating the border to eliminate points?
darkstarsys 160 days ago [-]
Cool! It would benefit from better physics though, maybe supersampling the position in time especially when moving fast. Each ball can't push to its edge fully, for instance.
jama211 160 days ago [-]
I’m really keen to see what this looks like after significant time but I’m not going to leave it open on my phone for ages just to find out haha. Clever idea!
It'd be interesting to see how the visuals change when you're viewing the path, rather than a filled area.
Not seen one of these tables with two balls in... You'd probably need quite a lot of height to offset the linear sliders so didn't collide with each other.
lacoolj 159 days ago [-]
Raava and Vaatu made into a game of dual-solitary pong
And yeah there's a bug where one will introduce itself into the other's domain and join that side instead. Very life-like :)
Mine broke even without speeding up things, the black ball is now working together with the white ball.
dmos62 159 days ago [-]
I'd phrase it "eternal adventure".
MarcelOlsz 160 days ago [-]
Cool now I'm not going to get anything done. Thanks OP. PLEASE add a speed control so I can speed it up to it's logical conclusion and move on with my day.
alwa 160 days ago [-]
I too am impatient to learn the logical conclusion of “eternal struggle.”
MarcelOlsz 159 days ago [-]
It can't be that eternal.
romaaeterna 160 days ago [-]
An edge point's probability of being hit should be proportional to the length of every path leading to that edge point. An area closer to many short black paths and many long white paths will show black expansion (and vice-versa). So I suspect that any variation of the central line from a straight bisection of the circle should get hammered out over time.
159 days ago [-]
fxwin 160 days ago [-]
you can run frameRate(x) in your browser's console to speed it up a bit - might be limited by your monitor's refresh rate though
riku_iki 160 days ago [-]
you can keep tab open and check in few weeks.
cmertayak 160 days ago [-]
Please let us know what happens.
riku_iki 159 days ago [-]
Its interesting that my is converging into straight line dividing circle half/half, unlike other examples in the comments.
amelius 160 days ago [-]
What would a 3d version of this look like?
lgas 159 days ago [-]
More spherical.
k__ 158 days ago [-]
It doesn't seem right that the light in the dark furthers the dark and not the light.
mensetmanusman 160 days ago [-]
What happens at the limit of infinity!
blue_light_man 159 days ago [-]
You are already at limit of infinity.
smusamashah 160 days ago [-]
Something similar was shared before, but it wasn't this shape, just plain old rectangle style.
Is there any interesting mathematics associated with this system?
hlava 160 days ago [-]
Are there any initial conditions that converge to a line?
dvh 160 days ago [-]
I see that you haven't seen alphaPhoenix' video about reverse game of life. I highly recommend it.
makepanic 160 days ago [-]
You can press P to toggle the edge point visibility.
swayvil 160 days ago [-]
How on phone?
sentinelsignal 158 days ago [-]
Time to sink multiple hours a day to this,
qiasl2 158 days ago [-]
was browsing through source code, you can press `w` to increase speed and `p` to show points around the edge
hk__2 158 days ago [-]
This `w` thing has been added after the HN submission.
hk__2 158 days ago [-]
This `w` thing was added after the HN submission.
throwaway314155 159 days ago [-]
The most self evident piece of work/art I have ever seen and yet there's so many comments explaining why it works and how it's interesting...
ycombinete 159 days ago [-]
To me it's working backwards though. i.e. the black ball is creating more whitespace and visa versa. It's not immediately evident to me why that would be the case.
gatnoodle 158 days ago [-]
I have achieved enlightenment.
ticklyjunk 159 days ago [-]
nice. tell me that was dreamed and vibe coded over a cup of coffee and I will believe you
cluckindan 160 days ago [-]
Now that we have the simulation, what is the closed form solution?
159 days ago [-]
AlexCoventry 159 days ago [-]
Manicheanimation
trilogic 159 days ago [-]
Simply amazing.
Avlin67 156 days ago [-]
what's the matter ?
swayvil 160 days ago [-]
It's cool.
It would be better if there was only 1 kind of edge instead of 2.
I refer to the broken edge and the circle edge.
jomarry 160 days ago [-]
I cant perfectly cause i dont know how to control. . I dont have any loptop for use to creat it. I use my phone
fuckaj 159 days ago [-]
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jomarry 159 days ago [-]
[dead]
ash76 159 days ago [-]
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jomarry 159 days ago [-]
[dead]
foolserrandboy 160 days ago [-]
[flagged]
barbazoo 160 days ago [-]
I laughed really hard at this :)
Rendered at 10:10:58 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
https://francisduvivier.github.io/eternal-struggle-with-spee...
Code: https://github.com/francisduvivier/eternal-struggle-with-spe...
[1] https://francisduvivier.github.io/eternal-struggle-with-spee...
1. cloudy; overcast; gloomy
2. hidden; secret
3. negative [of electrical charge]
4. the Moon
5. shade; shadow
6. north of a mountain or south of a river
7. back side
8. of the nether world; of ghosts
9. (philosophy) "female" principle; yin in yin-yang
10. in intaglio
11. treacherous; deceitful; cheating
12. (dialectal) to deceive; to trick; to trap
13. (Chinese phonetics, of a syllable) open; not having a consonant coda
14. (Cantonese) bangs; fringe
15. genitalia (of humans)
16. a surname
The one (American) person I know who has 陰 as a surname reports that Chinese people are often shocked at her surname upon meeting her. I think it might be a bit like having the surname Death in English (https://www.ancestry.com/last-name-meaning/death?geo-lang=en...).
That is to say, black kind of does mean "bad" here, in the popular conception anyway. Taoism and Buddhism promote a worldview that sees birth and death, creation and destruction, as neither good nor bad, simply inseparable parts of a larger whole. But most everyday people try to avoid darkness, death, destruction, cloudiness, gloominess, shadows, ghosts, treachery, traps, and so on, most of the time. It's more that Taoism teaches that this attempt is foolish.
Not all the senses are unpopular; plenty of people like human genitalia, the Moon, and intaglio, and the shady side of a river can be nicer when it's hot out.
Very on brand, it does not work correctly. I can turn the speed up but not back down again.
Now to be honest I saw this bug, but I decided to just release it anyways because I also already had the v2 in the works which incidentally already had this issue fixed.
If you go to 64.00×, it can't slow back anymore.
https://francisduvivier.github.io/eternal-struggle-with-spee...
Someone put this into an AI super duper thinking max edition, sprinkle some MCP on top and see what happens lol
Still buggy. If you increase the ball size and increase the speed, the whole thing goes black/white in 10 seconds.
Isn’t that the main characteristic of vibe-coded code anyway?
Running 100x for some moments, the white part got pincer maneuvered by the black and I ended up with the whole circle becoming black. Don't know what to think of that lol
https://www.testufo.com
(That assumes that the simulation is randomized of course, which doesn't seem to be the case for the one in the link posted here.)
https://imgur.com/a/dhCSNmi
https://imgur.com/a/b6b2IDx
On a phone it doesn’t seem to trigger unless I changed the background so I spent a minute just staring at the symbol without anything happening lol :D
https://ask5.github.io/gold-wars/
You had a bunch of critters scattered around the map trying to get home and you had to make paths for them while stopping your opponent from getting their critters home.
anyone willing to provide a math-proof like argument on why the shape seem to stick to the YY curve indefinitely as the "eternal" name suggests?
Should it always be this way or is there at least one bad initial bouncing configuration for which chaos can take place and we loose the YY curve?
Does not seem that obvious to me.
I'm not even a dimwitted individual with an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology, but I can see what's happening intuitively. When one of the balls makes an indent large enough, that indent focusses the bounce from the circular edge which reinforces the indent further. This leads to a semi-stable shape where one of the balls is bouncing around a horseshoe and the other in a tunnel. However, if one side of the horseshoe becomes pinched small enough that ball is less likely to enter, that side of get eliminated, and you have a yin-yang.
More simply, the round edge seems to encourage tunnelling, and any asymmetry in the tunnelling is yin-yang-ish.
For obvious reasons it tends to stay half white half black (if one half gets smaller its ball will bounce faster) but the shape and its orientation varies randomly.
https://d6f9e5179057.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Screenshot%2...
data.whiteBall.v.x = 5; data.whiteBall.v.y = 5;
data.blackBall.v.y = 5; data.blackBall.v.x = 5;
data.whiteBall.v.x = data.whiteBall.v.y = data.blackBall.v.y = data.blackBall.v.x = 10;
['whiteBall', 'blackBall'].forEach(color => { data[color].v.x *= 5; data[color].v.y *= 5 });
In dev console :)
Not seen one of these tables with two balls in... You'd probably need quite a lot of height to offset the linear sliders so didn't collide with each other.
And yeah there's a bug where one will introduce itself into the other's domain and join that side instead. Very life-like :)
It would be better if there was only 1 kind of edge instead of 2.
I refer to the broken edge and the circle edge.