Curious if Meta will ever recoup its investment into VR/AR? A quick Google search indicates Meta has invested north of $100 billion into this tech. The public just doesn't seem that interested in VR/AR. A very small percentage of my family and friends even own a VR headset. Most people are busy and don't have time to strap on a headset when they get home. If gaming / "the metaverse" is the cornerstone of VR, why are almost all gamers playing on a PC or console? And on the AR front, has anyone actually seen anyone out-and-about wearing those Meta AR glasses? Anyone remember Google glass? What happened to Magic Leap?
It's unsual, if you would have asked me 15 years ago- I would have told you _absolutely_ VR/AR would be huge. It just hasn't been the case. People don't want to wear headsets and there's nothing that the AR glasses can do that my phone can't. The whole thing has become a money blackhole.
rhubarbtree 35 minutes ago [-]
I got caught up in the hype a bit. I went to meet-ups, tried the tech and was blown away by VR.
Here’s the thing, though. To experience VR properly, you need to be able to walk arbitrarily through space. And houses are small. It sounds stupid and people have proposed solutions like rolling floors, but it’s actually not stupid. Sometimes a technology has a fundamental flaw (hello, there, hallucinating LLMs) which really does mean most of the value is unrealisable.
VR needs neural interfaces. Until then it’s going to be a minor sport.
The short term solution to this is AR. You can walk arbitrary distance subject to physical constraints you can navigate. This will drive the industry forward until neural interfaces are ready. Apple are right with Vision Pro, it’s absolutely amazing for a first product, but like the Newton they are just miles ahead of the curve, too far ahead.
* fortunately for AI companies, hallucinations simply require conceptual developments to fix - they’re not a hard constraint. They just need to stop overfocusing on scale.
AppleBananaPie 25 minutes ago [-]
For me it's been pixel density. The second I can replace my monitor with it and be able to read small text without my eyes hurting I'll buy the nicest one they make.
Unfortunately I've been waiting for 10 years now and it still hasn't happened :(
svoit 14 minutes ago [-]
Have you tried the Apple Vision Pro? It seems to have high pixel density. I’m not sure what counts as small text in that sense.
figassis 55 minutes ago [-]
I bought a PS4 VR maybe 2-3 years ago, when it arrived I was excited to try it on, and realized I needed to also buy the camera. I did not think it was worth another 5 minutes on amazon to buy the camera, so the thing just sits there collecting dust. No interest at all. Then there is the price. I pass by a store, and Oculus and friends are $300+. I have bought other things that cost more, like iPhones. Still not willing to buy a VR headset for that, especially when I do not know what I will be getting. I am sure I will be disappointed by the limited ecosystem.
mrtksn 3 hours ago [-]
It's just that AR/VR is not interactive. Sure they try to simulate interactivity through buttons or hands tracking but its lame and fake.
Even when have indistinguishable from reality visuals the illusion falls apart the moment you try to touch it. The fidelity through buttons is rudimentary and through hand tracking is non existent. The suspension of disbelief isn't there, humans fingers are incredibly sensitive and dexterous and we are trained whole life all the time to know how things feel. AI/AR isn't going to have any success without solving that.
icelancer 2 hours ago [-]
The VOID VR was the greatest fusion of VR + reality. CAD-mapped laser tag warehouses while wearing a VR headset and backpack computer. Near-perfect immersion. COVID sadly killed it. Was a beautiful thing - so happy I got to try it out. Even ended up buying a lot of the defunct equipment off eBay.
That tracks with how great it feels when you match the positions of the virtual and real wheels when simracing.
Peeking under the lenses you see your own arms seamlessly continue into the virtual ones and feels like you are grabbing the virtual wheel.
jl6 1 hours ago [-]
Maybe VR goggles need to be paired with VR gloves?
mrtksn 51 minutes ago [-]
Maybe? AFAIK there are many people trying to solve this and gloves is one of them.
I think it can work, think driving and flying simulators where you have realistic input for the machine like a driving wheel with feedback - thise can be quite convincing.
paulmooreparks 2 hours ago [-]
The only killer app for me, when it comes to VR headsets, would be flight sim, and I have been too busy for the last year to even sim on my 4k monitor, so I haven't taken the headset plunge yet. Still, that's the only thing I can think of that would make sense for me. Maybe there are others.
AngryData 46 minutes ago [-]
It is a good use for VR, but I also imagine most serious flight sim users already use TrackIR which seriously hampers their adoption to VR. Im not sure if I was offered one or the other for free if I would even choose a VR headset despite being a much higher monetary value because TrackIR already works so good, doesn't restrict vision from my actual controls, and doesn't isolate me from other things that might be going on around me.
anakaine 4 hours ago [-]
You nailed it. Im a tech nerd by day, rather occasional casual gamer, and besides that - I dont want to interact with more technology than needs be. The thought of having additional nonsense overlaid on my view is actually nauseating.
It could make sense selectively during construction, mining, etc, but even then its a sometimes thing and it needs to be completely unobtrusive. Meta dont seem to be aiming towards or catering to this.
mabedan 1 days ago [-]
This is the first feature which makes me kind of excited for VR. I live away from my country and my parents for over 20 years and I’d love to be able to sit in my parents’ living room, or have them sit in mine and share a moment together. FaceTime is already great, but I can imagine this will feel more intimate.
yibg 11 hours ago [-]
Agreed. Both my parents are getting older but live in different cities quite far apart from each other and me. Being able to virtually spend time together would be good if it’s realistic enough. During Covid I got into the habit of playing VR games with my father since I wasn’t able to physically visit and he was isolated. Not quite the same as being there physically of course but it helped a lot. Something both of us looked forward to.
ojo-rojo 24 hours ago [-]
+1 To add to the experience of connecting to people, I can also imagine our family members taking a photograph together while in VR of the family living room – a memento we can take away. That would work if our VR avatars are realistic representations of ourselves, which I think Meta can do (?)
lm28469 24 hours ago [-]
This sounds like an absolute nightmare. Technology disconnected us over decades, then gave us "solutions" to stay in touch 24/7, people are lonelier than ever but we keep pushing for more of this shit. You can already call and video call your family, basically for free, what does VR bring to the table ?
"Hey John, grandpa will expire soon can you quickly jump in your headset and upload yourself to his VR cabin in the wood, the one we rent from MetaSpital for $99 a day, to take a selfie with him before he dies alone in a cold hospital room"
SoftTalker 5 hours ago [-]
Agree 100%. Sounds absolutely awful.
andybak 23 hours ago [-]
It's just another way to record a time and place. No more different to a video than a video is to a photo. Just slightly more fidelity.
It's a good thing. It's a nice thing. Chill.
I get that there's reasons to be angry at big tech but this isn't one of them. Accurate and easy 3d scanning, high fidelity rendering and a way to view in 6dof stereoscopic is just a great use case entirely separate from the machinations of our evil overlords.
lm28469 23 hours ago [-]
And how does a 3d rendered world that doesn't exist anywhere other than in a computer has more fidelity than real life ?
> It's a good thing. It's a nice thing. Chill
That's your opinion, the fact that VR tanked hard seems to indicate most people don't agree
itsdrewmiller 17 hours ago [-]
It has more fidelity than a photograph or a 2d video. No one has claimed it is higher fidelity than real life.
theshackleford 10 hours ago [-]
> And how does a 3d rendered world that doesn't exist anywhere other than in a computer has more fidelity than real life ?
It's not always posible to meet up with people in real life. A lot of my friends moved overseas and I have neither the time nor inclination to be flying to sweden/the USA constantly.
> That's your opinion, the fact that VR tanked hard seems to indicate most people don't agree
This in no way changes the reality of their situation, in fact frankly, its irrelevant. Something being "nice" or "good" does not require it also have mass market appeal.
skeeter2020 9 hours ago [-]
>> I have neither the time nor inclination to be flying
Everybody struggles with that trade-off; it would be nice if the pro virtual connected crowd acknowledged that a big part of the value of these relationships is that they aren't easy or casual. The infrequency and cost/effort involved is part of what inherently makes them special. I seem to be in the minority that would trade 100 cursory relationships for 1 deeply meaningful relationship.
apsurd 8 hours ago [-]
Pedantic: "nice" or "good" does actually imply there's mass market agreement because otherwise what is the effective definition of the word "nice" or "good"?
skeeter2020 9 hours ago [-]
If this continues the trend of technology discouraging in-person, physical connectedness then it's not an all-good, all-nice thing. It could actually be a very dangerous, very bad thing.
dylan604 8 hours ago [-]
If you get used to living in your little pod generating heat to act as a small power supply while living a fulfilled live in your little VR world, then it is a good thing...for the machines. Could I interest you in this little blue pill? You seem to be resisting your programming.
kakacik 23 hours ago [-]
That's an extreme take, venting off some inner fears and frustrations?
There are many use cases where this can add value. People these days live far from their families, what's wrong with connecting in a better/different way if desired?
Not everybody wants or can stay with their families for whole life and that's fine, something about personal freedom and right to self-determination, desire for massive personal growth that exposure to different cultures invariably brings in, adventures and so on.
diamond559 10 hours ago [-]
It's adding another dimension to video calls, this isn't solving any major problems in the world. It won't bring in billions in revenue either.
jmathai 18 hours ago [-]
I used to think this. But as I’ve aged and grown wiser, I think perhaps everyone should consider the large negative impacts of moving so far away from family. Technology can’t solve all the problems.
Klaster_1 2 hours ago [-]
If it's dangerous to stay in home country or there are almost no work opportunities, a lot of people choose to leave. Surely they'd appreciate seeing family and friends through a more rich medium than flat video. I'd certainly do.
lm28469 23 hours ago [-]
> something about personal freedom and right to self-determination
This has to be satire, god emperor Zuck and his megacorp Meta fighting for our personal freedoms and right to self-determination. You're already living in an alternate universe apparently
foobarian 10 hours ago [-]
Yeah, pesky technology disconnecting us. Best to go back before cars where nobody could move anywhere. See you Sunday in church
apsurd 8 hours ago [-]
This doesn't make sense. It's the baby out with the bath water.
Yes! actually cars did have a plausibly negative effect on connection. in the before times you couldn't travel far so you didn't. and you saw your family ever day of your life. It's not all it's cracked up to be sure, but we're talking logistics.
Now with cars you can go wherever! And people move continents away and are told to make the family trip once a year at thanksgiving to do the family thing. Can you believe that with more optionality comes paradoxically fewer "chosen" options. See Netflix.
foobarian 8 hours ago [-]
I know right? It sure makes you wonder.
_ZeD_ 5 hours ago [-]
The thing is... are we happyer now?
7 hours ago [-]
mabedan 23 hours ago [-]
I agree with the general sentiment. I also think we forgot how to enjoy quality time together and these “solutions” will make matters worse. But in some scenarios, like what I described, which is just spending time together, it can help
skeezyjefferson 23 hours ago [-]
we are decades away. its why carmack quit to pursue other avenues. the chasm between the state of the art (gaming) and where VR currently is (essentially, mobile) is too big not seem shitty in comparison. The then-recent proliferation of Arm and SoC made the industry think it was possible, they even convinced Carmack, but the bandwidth just isnt there. The innovation required on the software side is massive - so theyll just wait for hardware to get better.
acka 11 hours ago [-]
Would you care to explain what you mean by "the bandwidth just isn't there"? VR is more than just mobile devices; all currently available VR headsets can also do PC VR, whether via a wired DisplayPort link or a wired or wireless network connection.
As I see it, the only absolute upper limit for VR is the resolution and frame rate of the VR headset displays, as well as the quality of the optical stack. Rendering of the graphics can be done by anything from a single high-end GPU in a PC up to a beefy server in the cloud—although in that case, of course, network latency and video compression will impact the experience.
dijit 3 hours ago [-]
realistically speaking; wired VR is much too much faff.
unless it’s a niche thing (simulation, high end gaming), the future is undoubtedly free headsets like the Quest 3 and Apple Vision- for convenience in handling and setup, conformity and freedom of use.
jayd16 9 hours ago [-]
The tech is 100% there for a fancy video call. The major issue is, beyond that, the tech is quite expensive to run and build and despite enabling novel experiences they aren't compelling enough to reach critical mass and justify the cost.
The work to make or even use a proper VR app or game is so so much more than the flat equivalent and there are only some added utility for spatial input. Tech can certainly improve some of that...
But a VR video call is solved... You can do it mostly out of the box with an AVP but who is going to buy a $3k device for yourself and anyone you want to call and then have a couple calls and never use it because its not worth the hassle to strap it on.
dylan604 8 hours ago [-]
The tech that requires a weighted mask to be strapped to your head while you are tethered to either a power pack or a compute device or both? And you can't imagine why it didn't reach critical mass? No, the tech is definitely not there for mass appeal. If you think the hardware is 100% there, I'd suggest you step outside of the echo chamber, take a deep breath, and touch grass.
jayd16 8 hours ago [-]
This comment feels pretty high emotion for how much it didn't seem to actually read what was written.
RyanOD 10 hours ago [-]
I'm sort of embarrassed to ask this, but what is the point of this (and I'm genuinely asking)?
I get that it can scan a physical space and then I can see a digital reproduction of that space on VR goggles...but then what? Do I just stand there looking around the space?
kace91 9 hours ago [-]
As someone who worked in VR a decade ago, I can tell you that the few use cases that were earning us actual money (as opposed to hype and continuous POCs) were niche apps and tools for specific industries.
A common one is VR visits for real estate companies and travel agencies, for example. Also virtual previews for investors and C-suite execs in meetings where there was a ton of money involved - think someone trying to sell the creation of a whole neighbourhood and this is a fancy version of a powerpoint slide for their pitch.
This tech could probably have saved us a good amount of work, though It's still a head scratcher why Zuck thinks this is the one thing in which to bet the company's future.
Animats 6 hours ago [-]
> A common one is VR visits for real estate companies and travel agencies, for example.
Yes. There's a mini-industry doing this for real estate.[1] Some systems let you place furniture in the 3D model.
Versions of this idea go all the way back to Apple's "Quicktime VR", which was a chain of spherical images through which you could navigate.
It's a long way from a fun metaverse. (Doing a big metaverse at all is difficult. Making it fun is even harder.)
> why Zuck thinks this is the one thing in which to bet the company's future
Lack of imagination and willingness to rely on someone else's judgement - other than the cyberpunk authors he read as a teen?
Aeolun 6 hours ago [-]
I’g just going to say I’d much rather he be fascinated by that than basically anything else.
petesergeant 6 hours ago [-]
> > why Zuck thinks this is the one thing in which to bet the company's future
> Lack of imagination and willingness to rely on someone else's judgement
Perhaps, but given that his financial and investment judgement so far has netted him $250b, I think he gets the benefit of the doubt.
willis936 9 hours ago [-]
Earlier today I said a "leader" sometimes would rather an entire team quit than admit a mistake. Others would rather light a billion dollars on fire than admit a mistake.
skeeter2020 9 hours ago [-]
It seems to recreate the absolute low point for Wade in Ready Player One, when he's deeply unhappy and only has the sort of nostalgia you'll get from a photo-realistic but ultimately empty representation like this.
felipeerias 4 hours ago [-]
Meta tried to make VR into a mass-market product but currently VR technologies are only successful in very specific niches and use cases.
One of those use cases is training in industrial settings like factories, mines, or construction sites. It is a lot cheaper and safer to have workers take their first steps in a VR environment rather than on the actual location.
At the moment, a lot of this training is implemented as custom 3D applications using e.g. Unity. I imagine that something like Hyperscape would make it much easier and faster to create and share VR environments for this purpose.
bluerooibos 9 hours ago [-]
"Visit your local cafe, now in VR. Meet your friends in local spaces, without leaving your home!"
Either way, I don't see this taking off. I'm surprised they're still pursuing VR.
rhetocj23 9 hours ago [-]
Is it though? Zuck has a very coloured history and is not really the innovator he wants to think he is.
He seems to have an obsession of breaking free of Apples control.
randycupertino 5 hours ago [-]
"He seems to have an obsession of breaking free of Apples control" - can you give more context about this? Does he basically think facebook is shackled by iphone app privacy requirements?
2OEH8eoCRo0 9 hours ago [-]
I'm afraid to ask for this but I wish I could use something like this for work. Why are we all commuting? I'd like to put on a company issued VR headset and be transported to an office. Just literally recreate the office experience.
_carbyau_ 7 hours ago [-]
Why recreate the office?
I get that some people have a psychological mindset to "be in a place so as to do work" but offices are a compromise on so many things, most notably space.
Now you have tech to create entire wondrously imaginative virtual worlds and you want to recreate a bland little open plan box to cram avatars into?
zmmmmm 6 hours ago [-]
I guess you could ask, why offices look like they do? they could already be imaginative spaces but companies mostly opt for "bland" spaces. Probably because if you're going to combine the preferences of 30 people in one space you have to settle for something pretty far down the common denominator tree, which is always going to be "bland".
_carbyau_ 6 hours ago [-]
True, but when each person is individually fed their vision and sound you don't necessarily have to compromise.
Set some specifics, like open space, chair, table/desk. And you could have Hogwarts theme while I have a viking feasting hall.
dostick 3 hours ago [-]
There’s at least 8 of such work space apps on Meta Quest, they have whiteboards, you can do stuff together all while in a room in the middle of Alps or in space.
bink 9 hours ago [-]
Except with the extra weight of a headset, eye strain, and the uncanny feeling of moving without moving.
alanbernstein 9 hours ago [-]
There was a demo app showing artists' studios in very high detail. It was really neat.
I imagine if you ever want to "hang out in VR", it would be nice to do it in your own virtual living room, instead of the imaginary virtual spaces.
The technology is neat. I don't know that either of those justifies the R&D effort. So just try to enjoy that neat technology exists for its own sake.
morkalork 9 hours ago [-]
We know you love the office space so much, we built the technology to perfectly recreate it in VR so you can still come in, hang out and work there, remotely from home!
jayd16 9 hours ago [-]
Likely, you'll want this sort of thing for easy VR video production. Once you have a backdrop scanned, you could more easily film the action with a directional camera.
At that point you can have a very convincing VR performance with cheap hardware. That handles much much more viewer IPDs and head positions etc, than one of those expensive omni-directional camera rigs.
dottjt 10 hours ago [-]
The huge application for this I think is video games. Instead of having to create every small detail by hand, you can just create the space in real-life and then have that rendered.
andybak 9 hours ago [-]
Ironically this is currently very ill suited to gaming. (However, I personally think there's plenty of use cases beyond gaming. Including "it's just intrinsically cool to be somewhere that no longer exists")
jayd16 9 hours ago [-]
Somewhat ironic but for a certain type of person its actually way easier to throw together a simple set than to build convincing 3D art. Once could imagine a point and click adventure built this way but I wouldn't expect that is really a major use-case.
That said, the more general aspect of "accessible, user generatable content" is a better way to look at it.
jncfhnb 10 hours ago [-]
Can’t tell if that’s a joke
wlesieutre 10 hours ago [-]
I would love to time travel back to some of my old apartments
plun9 10 hours ago [-]
I guess other people with a headset can view your spaces.
qingcharles 9 hours ago [-]
Meta has been working on this for a while. I believe one of their primary use cases was for AI training. e.g., to train robots on real world locations before letting them loose.
baby 10 hours ago [-]
Imagine if you could go back and visit all the apartments you've ever lived in. I would pay big for that. That's worth more than a lots of cameras and pictures taken
skeeter2020 9 hours ago [-]
Unless it adds a rose-colored tint I think you'd quicky realize that time & nostalgia filter out a lot of things and there's a reason you no longer live in that apartment.
baby 2 hours ago [-]
Na I doubt it. I lived on 10+ different places in my life because I had to move, I would kill to revisit any of these places
4 hours ago [-]
ziofill 2 hours ago [-]
AR porn will rake back those billions, lol
andybak 9 hours ago [-]
What's the point of a photograph?
cma 9 hours ago [-]
Can think of plenty:
Online meetup for Disney fans: each week in a different scan of the park
Online consultation with interior design or architect: takes place in you existing house and saves travel for someone billing $x hundred an hour.
Online highschool reunion planning meeting with people spread over the world: takes place at the highschool or potential venues
Deployed military personel meeting remotely on his anniversary with his wife: takes place where they had their first date
I thought we would have already had this with photogrammetry back in 2016 when the Vive released with a camera, but that usually involved too much cleanup and optimizing geometry and couldn't be done automatically, along with the issues with reflections. I was also really surprised Google Earth VR didn't add in multiplayer soon after launch for similar use cases.
heavyset_go 8 hours ago [-]
I don't want Meta knowing about every object in my home, seems creepy to me
randycupertino 5 hours ago [-]
We've noticed your couch cushions are sagging! Here's 500 ads for restoration hardware couches. Also we saw the carton of diet coke in your kitchen, here's a coupon to try Diet Pepsi.
heavyset_go 5 hours ago [-]
We've noticed you haven't drank your confirmation can yet, please enjoy a refreshing Diet Pepsi before continuing
clintonb 1 days ago [-]
VRML was one of my early computing interests. I’m actually excited for more ways to share 3D spaces with folks!
aitchnyu 1 days ago [-]
In 2000, I was 10 when I downloaded a web page with an applet to walk into a cell. But a VRML player was a whopping 10mb and it would have jammed up the phone line for hours and costed a fortune.
skeezyjefferson 23 hours ago [-]
remember even back THEN, they said VR would change how we work. I guess its just a common misconception we keep making
skeeter2020 9 hours ago [-]
this is essentially useless without the powerglove with which to control everything.
XorNot 1 days ago [-]
This one is actually quite interesting: there's direct uses for any ability to rapidly extract digital representations of physical spaces.
poly2it 9 hours ago [-]
As far as I can tell, this technology isn't novel. It's just Gaussian splatting from the looks of it.
righthand 1 days ago [-]
Like spying on the room around the person and trying to advertise to them more Funko Pop dolls?
What are the other direct uses?
Cthulhu_ 24 hours ago [-]
I can think of a few:
* Surveys (I had the county come in once in my sort-of legal rental appartment when they were legalising them, they needed to make a floor plan and fire safety recommendations)
* Real estate, which already uses 360 degree photo's and simplified 3d floor plan models
* Video games. Very generic usage.
* Virtualised museums, but those would likely need extra work to make all the placards etc readable
* Street View next level, also indoor navigation.
reaperducer 10 hours ago [-]
Oil companies have been using VR rooms for decades to explore, and understand, and map underground deposits and formations.
(I first saw it in 1999, when it was considered old hat. I can only imagine how much more advanced it's become.)
throw-10-8 22 hours ago [-]
And how many of those does Meta have existing revenue and distribution model for?
Its pretty safe to assume that the primary driver of this is data hoovering for selling ads, everything else is just PR spin from the Meta thinktanks.
PaulHoule 16 hours ago [-]
They send me surveys which show they have preoccupations which are... weird.
They're not happy to have a successful game store, they want me to use a VR headset to determine my schedule. Which I guess is alright, if I can also access my schedule with a desktop computer or a phone. Why I'd want to use VR to determine my schedule is beyond me, I think a 'minority report' kind of interface could be possible but it is 2025 and you'd think people would expect a conversational recommender that works everywhere.
_carbyau_ 7 hours ago [-]
I knew a guy 20 years ago who was doing a PhD trying to 3D scan caves.
Caving is one of those things where not many people get to go there and any damage is irreversible. Combined with other information, such scanning could provide invaluable information for geology.
But yeah, not in my house. I already used Valetudo to ensure my robot vacuum doesn't send info about my house anywhere. Why the hell would I do a high detail scan and upload it?
Aeolun 6 hours ago [-]
> Why the hell would I do a high detail scan and upload it?
So you can completely change it all afterwards, and then highly confuse any criminal that comes in to try and take advantage of it?
_carbyau_ 6 hours ago [-]
At which point I think I'd skip the scanning and try to convert/upload the files from a video game.
Have fun planning to steal my Rhino Warframe!
qingcharles 9 hours ago [-]
When they first showed this off a few years back it was for AI training, e.g. training robots on real world locations.
baq 1 days ago [-]
Remodeling a kitchen for one.
lurker919 9 hours ago [-]
On one hand, meta has a bad reputation for being a toxic pip factory where employees can be laid off any time. On the other hand, they are consistently coming out with innovations in VR/glasses at a time when the industry is going crazy over openai funny money. Are toxic work practices actually good for innovation?
w_for_wumbo 9 hours ago [-]
Humans can do amazing things when they are pushed to their limits.
You can force a human into a position where they innovate for their lives.
OR you can create a safe enough environment where their innovation comes out naturally.
The second option benefits everyone yet can be harder to do in practice because it requires paying attention and attuning to the needs of the individuals and the collective.
rhetocj23 9 hours ago [-]
Zuck isnt the kinda charismatic leader akin to Jobs who can actually get the best out of people.
I remain unconvinced re. his management style. Thus far it seems to work if the product is oriented around A/B testing.
btbuildem 8 hours ago [-]
This would be much more interesting if it didn't just capture one "dumb" point cloud, but actually discerned the separate and unique objects -- eg, giving the user the ability to interact with them in VR as one would IRL.
halflife 1 days ago [-]
Semi related, is horizon worlds still a thing? Is it being developed? Are there active users?
queltos 23 hours ago [-]
Surprisingly it is. Thought it was dead in the water especially against VRChat. But it is continuously worked on and if I did get that right it will get a new engine as well. Accidently hopped into some worlds recently as they are (annoyingly) promoting it heavily in the quest library. And there are plenty of worlds with many players, 99% of which being small kids it feels.
crashingintoyou 1 days ago [-]
I'm eager to see this become more widely available, at least once such spaces can be shared. Not yet available to me, but hopefully soon.
bentt 6 hours ago [-]
I have confidence that Meta will find a way to make this user experience horrible and exploitative.
hedayet 8 hours ago [-]
Even if this fails, Meta will end up with quite a substantial stash of real-world spatial data. Tailwind for their AI training initiatives.
Towaway69 9 hours ago [-]
Initially read this as hyper escapism but then realised it wasn’t about AI, just 3D.
Strange how all the major technologies atm are concerned - at least partly - with escaping reality.
nowittyusername 9 hours ago [-]
Humans are increasingly living in more and more chaotic environments where they perceive lack of agency (more and more accurately so) and so we crave stability where we have more control. All successful escapes from reality provide that stability.
nitwit005 9 hours ago [-]
The article misses that people have been doing this sort of thing for years at this point. The innovative part is making it easier to scan the room: https://scaniverse.com/quest
skeeter2020 9 hours ago [-]
VirtuGood Technologies has been selling this technology for decades. Nothing new to see here.
shoo 7 hours ago [-]
Remains to be seen if Meta's new VR technology has legs.
halflife 6 hours ago [-]
Only in a future update
jasode 1 days ago [-]
Somewhat related is 3D / LIDAR scanning tech of overlapping photo captures using Matterport: https://matterport.com/
It's popular with real estate agents. Not quite "virtual reality" but it also doesn't need expensive glasses. It does seem like future smartphones with AI may be a decent cheaper substitute for $6000 Matterport cameras.
kridsdale1 9 hours ago [-]
As a home-buying shopper, Matterport on a listing is fantastic and makes me 10x more interested in the property.
PaulHoule 16 hours ago [-]
I think the same content could be viewed with either VR headsets or phones or computers, see
WOOO, I can make a VR copy of my messy apartment! Come check out the peeling paint and the mysterious stain on the ceiling!
Ifkaluva 6 hours ago [-]
I guess in VR you can delete the stain?
throw-10-8 23 hours ago [-]
Its hilarious to me how people in these comments still give Meta the benefit of the doubt and think the core feature of this is anything other than blatant data harvesting.
alex1138 1 days ago [-]
A fundamental problem with Metaverse is that their parent companies (Facebook, Insta, and as far as Whatsapp it's a clear antitrust case) don't work
People don't see posts from friends. The site spams you to death. They hijacked your email address, and replaced it with a facebook.com address. They've lied rather a lot about things generally
And that company is now the one presenting a Metaverse/VR/AR/whatever
It should be DOA just based on reputation, never mind the technical merits
fsiefken 1 days ago [-]
what if they open source the 3d->vr tech, or inspire people to create open source alternatives? it's a net win
timeon 23 hours ago [-]
They already open-sourced React. I consider it net-negative for the web. While nice API for developers, it resulted in slow websites for users.
alex1138 23 hours ago [-]
And the license controversy
wewewedxfgdf 1 days ago [-]
The Zuck really doesn't want to let go of the MetaVerse does he?
hnlmorg 23 hours ago [-]
There is some sense in it and I’m surprised by all the naysayers here.
For starters, Quest is by far the biggest selling VR/XR headset. So he is already seeing some success here.
And as we’ve seen before, Facebook isn’t going to dominate forever. It makes complete sense throwing large sums of money at future technology while you still have large sums of money to burn.
Chasing new technology when you’re already behind and your revenue is decline is a guaranteed way to fail.
Moonshots like this you waste a tonne of money when that money is comparatively cheap anyway. Plus it keeps people talking about your business, which is never a bad thing.
rchaud 9 hours ago [-]
They have lost $68 billion (not spent, lost) on this project [0]. For that money they could have bought EA, owned its cash flows and still have $8 billion left over.
> Chasing new technology when you’re already behind and your revenue is decline is a guaranteed way to fail.
> Moonshots like this you waste a tonne of money when that money is comparatively cheap anyway.
andybak 9 hours ago [-]
> not spent, lost
Can you explain that assertion in more detail?
rchaud 9 hours ago [-]
What is there to expand on? The revenues from that division are $68 billion less than expenses it has racked up.
andybak 9 hours ago [-]
Zuck said from the beginning this was a long term bet. We can debate the wisdom of that call and its timescale but let's assume he thinks of it as a 20 year thing. Until that time period is up then surely it's "spent" rather than "lost"?
rhetocj23 8 hours ago [-]
Do you know what the concept of time value of money means?
The further out into the future you go, the less valuable the returns are when taken back into the present.
The reality is, Mr Zuck is a manager who is there to invest the cash of its shareholders on their behalf into projects that beat the hurdle rate. Shareholders dont care abut how cool the tech is.
bonesss 23 hours ago [-]
Critically, in my estimation: Facebook/Instagram is delivered on phones, browsers, and PCs not owned by Meta. Boardroom politics could tank huge chunks of their business model without recourse.
Meta establishing VR and the underlying ecosystem, building a moat, makes lots of long term sense (if they succeed).
mrheosuper 1 days ago [-]
And i happy for that. Someone has to bite the bullet to push the VR tech.
hansmayer 1 days ago [-]
Right, but why?
signatoremo 4 hours ago [-]
Why not? A lot of technologies exist despite no clear application initially, only taking off decades later. Lithium ion battery research started in 1960s, yet no commercial applications until at least 20 years later, and only really took off with smartphone - [0]
HN crowd often criticizes big tech for milking ads and the lack of innovation. Meta deserves credit for sinking their own money into future techs like VR.
By the way, Exxon the oil company funded early research of lithium ion battery tech by Dr. Whittingham, clearly not for short term benefits.
Because someone needs to pour the money in to get us to "Ready Player One" level game immersion.
Cthulhu_ 24 hours ago [-]
But is there much of a demand for it? VR has been a feature of video games for over a decade now, last time I used it I thought it was good enough (that was 6-7 years ago), technology wise. But it's nowhere near as popular as e.g. regular displays.
Any movie depictions of VR are fully immersive - Ready Player One (at least the film) takes some liberties in depicting the game world as if it's immersive, even though the guy plays with VR glasses and force feedback gloves/suits, all current-day technology. Most others have a direct brain interface. Some (Star Trek) model a realistic immersive environment around the player, but both of those are very much science fiction still.
There's some brain / tech interfaces, but if I recall correctly the brain has to learn to handle the signals first, there's no way to create a perfect, instant link.
reassess_blind 22 hours ago [-]
I don't think it needs to be perfect for there to be massive demand, but it does need to get a lot better than it currently is.
Games where you are stationary (racing simulation, mainly) are better suited to it. Gran Turismo 7 in PSVR2 with a Logitech racing wheel was a ridiculously immersive experience. I played through the whole game in VR and it was one of the best gaming experiences I've had and certainly the most immersive, particularly as a diehard car guy. But racing sims are fairly niche.
Outside of racing sims, it's still immersive, but any games with character movement give me immediate motion sickness, the movement is too clunky and disorienting.
If they can figure that out at a reasonable price point the demand will be there because the immersion is just night and day against a screen.
theshackleford 10 hours ago [-]
> last time I used it I thought it was good enough (that was 6-7 years ago), technology wise.
Many of us didnt. I wouldnt call low resolution and low PPI (significantly lower than desktop displays) "good enough." Not to mention terrible optics. I would use my current device a lot more if it could match the "viewable" resolution of my desktop displays, but currently, it can not.
lm28469 24 hours ago [-]
The people who wish for these worlds are either complete shut in, terminally online or already spending 8+ hours a day playing video games and walking past their lives.
gmueckl 21 hours ago [-]
They are also e.g. architects and designers who get amazing new tools to check their work and present it to clients. What is more honest than getting to walk through e.g. a life size mockup of a building? Now you can do that before the ground is even broken.
lm28469 18 hours ago [-]
These tools already exist and have nothing to do with the metaverse. This is such a weird argument, as if we needed meta to spend 10-50b a year in their bs to have these tools...
andybak 10 hours ago [-]
Tools exist to view architectural spaces in the same way a headset can without a headset? I'm slightly confused.
Or maybe you think a headset doesn't add anything to the experience of viewing a space. If so, I'd have to ask whether you'd actually used one. Because if there's any inarguably uniquely appropriate use case for VR, it's "viewing architectural spaces"
andybak 23 hours ago [-]
No. We're fairly normal actually.
lm28469 18 hours ago [-]
The numbers don't lie though, statistically nobody wants VR, we haven't even reached the numbers they were predicating for 2016, 10 years later ...
> It says 96 million VR headsets will be shipped in 2020
Meanwhile: "The global virtual reality (VR) market size was valued at $16.32 billion in 2024"
I don't know anyone with a social life who care about these toys, the only people I know of who are semi interested already spend 6+ hours a day gaming.
andybak 17 hours ago [-]
I don't care how many people want it. I personally never claimed it was going to be a huge mass market thing. It's big enough to be sustainable.
Stupid claims by people trying to pump investment hype have no bearing on my interest in the medium.
> I don't know anyone with a social life who care about these toys, the only people I know of who are semi interested already spend 6+ hours a day gaming.
The people I know with an interest in VR are mainly artists and other forms of creatives. We must move in different circles.
theshackleford 10 hours ago [-]
> I don't know anyone with a social life who care about these toys
On the other hand, I do. Isnt it crazy that like, different people have different experiences? Who would have thought!
lm28469 24 hours ago [-]
Meta alone could have solved like 50% of famines/heavy malnutrition currently happening in the world if they used their metaverse budget to do something useful. And they'd still be so rich they wouldn't know what to do with the leftovers.
No one "needs" to push for that bullshit metaverse, the real world isn't shitty enough, yet, apparently they're dead set and achieving that, for people to wish to live in a computer.
reassess_blind 21 hours ago [-]
It would be interesting to see how much of a difference a lump sum of $50 billion would make, or not make, to long term world hunger.
It’s a lot of money, but the WFP has spent more than that in the past 10 years on the problem.
A lot of the issues with world hunger aren’t easy solved by throwing more money at it. Politics, logistics, corruption etc. It can’t be solved without money either, of course.
Not to say that money couldn’t be better spent elsewhere than the metaverse.
hansmayer 20 hours ago [-]
If you take money for what it should be - a measure of work invested towards achieving a result, then yes, I suppose we could get a lot done with people employed out of that 50B working towards the goal of ending the world hunger. Heck, I'd even argue building a moon base with that money would have been a better investment than the crap the "magnificent 7" is pushing on us.
cloudflare728 23 hours ago [-]
You don't understand how money works.
They are not burning money, they are employing people like you directly or through 3rd party partner companies. The beneficiaries can decide themselves how to spend money. They can live a good life or help others.
stubish 8 hours ago [-]
Money buys labour. That labour could be in service to ending world hunger. That labour could be in service to creating bullshit. Both approaches leave workers with money in their pocket, letting them engage in that game of prisoners dilemma we call charity.
throw-10-8 22 hours ago [-]
Still living in the 80's?
Seems like you are the one with an outdated model of how money works.
Over the last couple decades it has been moving up at an ever increasing rate instead of down.
lm28469 23 hours ago [-]
Ah yes, they're just redistributing the money, the trickle down economy right ? They're basically a non profit humanitarian association at that point
cloudflare728 22 hours ago [-]
Profit or loss is out of the equation.
Somehow Facebook getting a huge amount of money. They are distributing that money to a million people (directly or indirectly to employees, share holders, employees of 3rd party partners). Some people are getting billions and some are getting $100s.
Instead of handful of people in Facebook management deciding to be humanitarian, you now have a million people deciding what to do with their portion. It is that simple.
ildon 11 hours ago [-]
As soon as I've tried the VR experience myself for something I actually found useful/entertaining (VR sports), I was immediately sold on the idea. I can't wait for this tech to get better and better
taskforcegemini 1 days ago [-]
why not? As good as the options have become, for many purposes they are still not quite there yet
fragmede 1 days ago [-]
Yeah, but how are we going to get there if we don't work on it?
not_a_bot_4sho 1 days ago [-]
Metaverse is a huge deal among Zune owners and Quiby subscribers.
shermantanktop 24 hours ago [-]
I heard about on MySpace. I think it’s going to be Web 2.1!
lm28469 24 hours ago [-]
I was in LA in 2015 at the peak of the VR hype, I don't think zuck got the memo that it flopped hard between then and now.
supportengineer 10 hours ago [-]
Did you encounter any Kouriers while travelling from one burbclave to the next?
Cthulhu_ 24 hours ago [-]
He should've just spent the money to buy Roblox, Fortnite or Minecraft. Second Life at a stretch.
the_gipsy 1 days ago [-]
The FacebookVerse.
nicman23 1 days ago [-]
so that is why they werent giving access to the color cameras in oculus 3 to apps
i want my point cloud scanner dammit
andybak 23 hours ago [-]
They've relented on that now. There's a (somewhat limited) API for camera access.
nicman23 21 hours ago [-]
do they give the full output?
andybak 17 hours ago [-]
It's a cropped area. Presumably to keep the bandwidth requirements down. Also limited to 60fps (I recall)
KaiserPro 11 hours ago [-]
its partly privacy, and partly camera constraints.
I don't think any of the cameras run at 90hz, I'm pretty sure the slam cameras run at 25hz, with the IMU doing the rest. (that might have changed, It also may have been 15hz, I can't remember)
Also, again from memory, its been a year since I actually worked on it, the colour camera does some fancy fusion to make a compound image. The images need to be warped properly so that depth is displayed properly.
nicman23 56 minutes ago [-]
i mean even 15 hz from all cameras is quite a bit of info to create a point cloud
alfiedotwtf 1 days ago [-]
I just hope we’ll be able to download and keep our files, rather than have them hold hostage… it would be nice to use this as a personal archival of houses and pass them down like a family album.
Now there’s a sad sad thought - imagine if Kodak required monthly subscription to vote your photos
bluehat974 24 hours ago [-]
Imagine scanning a cooking courses and be able to move in the space to watch cooking technique in any angles, would be awesome
rchaud 9 hours ago [-]
I learned to cook from 360p Youtube videos in 2007 and don't see how watching preparation from a different angle would make a difference.
lawlessone 9 hours ago [-]
That would be magnitudes more data i think. As cheap as storage is i don't think anyone is ready for that.
cutler 8 hours ago [-]
I can just see it now - Trump, Netanyahu and Zuckerborg teaming up to provide Gazans with VR headsets running videos of virtually reconstructed Palestine. Genocide, what genocide?
8767445387806 7 hours ago [-]
Cry harder, you jihadist goatfucker. The world is better off without that pest.
UberFly 1 days ago [-]
Meta is the Yahoo of current platforms. It happens to all of them eventually...
1 days ago [-]
clownpenis_fart 24 hours ago [-]
[dead]
thrown-0825-1 23 hours ago [-]
[dead]
growthwtf 1 days ago [-]
Rendering takes a few hours means humans are building it at least partially.
andybak 1 days ago [-]
False. This is just gaussian splats being queued up on a server somewhere
growthwtf 11 hours ago [-]
You could be correct, but it would be a real indictment of their rendering farm I think.
andybak 10 hours ago [-]
It's not "rendering" with gaussian splats. It's more "training" (or "fitting"). And not knowing how much the usage vs compute ratio is, I would hesitate to comment.
But knowing a little bit about gaussian splatting, I can't think what manual steps requiring human assistance are even likely to be necessary?
growthwtf 3 hours ago [-]
Without knowing the specifics of their pipeline I would also hesitate to comment further.
ge96 10 hours ago [-]
Hmm I swear I saw something like this demoed. I think it was an independent thing but also think Apple has it too with their VR headset.
Rendered at 08:12:57 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
It's unsual, if you would have asked me 15 years ago- I would have told you _absolutely_ VR/AR would be huge. It just hasn't been the case. People don't want to wear headsets and there's nothing that the AR glasses can do that my phone can't. The whole thing has become a money blackhole.
Here’s the thing, though. To experience VR properly, you need to be able to walk arbitrarily through space. And houses are small. It sounds stupid and people have proposed solutions like rolling floors, but it’s actually not stupid. Sometimes a technology has a fundamental flaw (hello, there, hallucinating LLMs) which really does mean most of the value is unrealisable.
VR needs neural interfaces. Until then it’s going to be a minor sport.
The short term solution to this is AR. You can walk arbitrary distance subject to physical constraints you can navigate. This will drive the industry forward until neural interfaces are ready. Apple are right with Vision Pro, it’s absolutely amazing for a first product, but like the Newton they are just miles ahead of the curve, too far ahead.
* fortunately for AI companies, hallucinations simply require conceptual developments to fix - they’re not a hard constraint. They just need to stop overfocusing on scale.
Unfortunately I've been waiting for 10 years now and it still hasn't happened :(
Even when have indistinguishable from reality visuals the illusion falls apart the moment you try to touch it. The fidelity through buttons is rudimentary and through hand tracking is non existent. The suspension of disbelief isn't there, humans fingers are incredibly sensitive and dexterous and we are trained whole life all the time to know how things feel. AI/AR isn't going to have any success without solving that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oad_t6k3w5c
I think it can work, think driving and flying simulators where you have realistic input for the machine like a driving wheel with feedback - thise can be quite convincing.
It could make sense selectively during construction, mining, etc, but even then its a sometimes thing and it needs to be completely unobtrusive. Meta dont seem to be aiming towards or catering to this.
"Hey John, grandpa will expire soon can you quickly jump in your headset and upload yourself to his VR cabin in the wood, the one we rent from MetaSpital for $99 a day, to take a selfie with him before he dies alone in a cold hospital room"
It's a good thing. It's a nice thing. Chill.
I get that there's reasons to be angry at big tech but this isn't one of them. Accurate and easy 3d scanning, high fidelity rendering and a way to view in 6dof stereoscopic is just a great use case entirely separate from the machinations of our evil overlords.
> It's a good thing. It's a nice thing. Chill
That's your opinion, the fact that VR tanked hard seems to indicate most people don't agree
It's not always posible to meet up with people in real life. A lot of my friends moved overseas and I have neither the time nor inclination to be flying to sweden/the USA constantly.
> That's your opinion, the fact that VR tanked hard seems to indicate most people don't agree
This in no way changes the reality of their situation, in fact frankly, its irrelevant. Something being "nice" or "good" does not require it also have mass market appeal.
Everybody struggles with that trade-off; it would be nice if the pro virtual connected crowd acknowledged that a big part of the value of these relationships is that they aren't easy or casual. The infrequency and cost/effort involved is part of what inherently makes them special. I seem to be in the minority that would trade 100 cursory relationships for 1 deeply meaningful relationship.
There are many use cases where this can add value. People these days live far from their families, what's wrong with connecting in a better/different way if desired?
Not everybody wants or can stay with their families for whole life and that's fine, something about personal freedom and right to self-determination, desire for massive personal growth that exposure to different cultures invariably brings in, adventures and so on.
This has to be satire, god emperor Zuck and his megacorp Meta fighting for our personal freedoms and right to self-determination. You're already living in an alternate universe apparently
Yes! actually cars did have a plausibly negative effect on connection. in the before times you couldn't travel far so you didn't. and you saw your family ever day of your life. It's not all it's cracked up to be sure, but we're talking logistics.
Now with cars you can go wherever! And people move continents away and are told to make the family trip once a year at thanksgiving to do the family thing. Can you believe that with more optionality comes paradoxically fewer "chosen" options. See Netflix.
As I see it, the only absolute upper limit for VR is the resolution and frame rate of the VR headset displays, as well as the quality of the optical stack. Rendering of the graphics can be done by anything from a single high-end GPU in a PC up to a beefy server in the cloud—although in that case, of course, network latency and video compression will impact the experience.
unless it’s a niche thing (simulation, high end gaming), the future is undoubtedly free headsets like the Quest 3 and Apple Vision- for convenience in handling and setup, conformity and freedom of use.
The work to make or even use a proper VR app or game is so so much more than the flat equivalent and there are only some added utility for spatial input. Tech can certainly improve some of that...
But a VR video call is solved... You can do it mostly out of the box with an AVP but who is going to buy a $3k device for yourself and anyone you want to call and then have a couple calls and never use it because its not worth the hassle to strap it on.
I get that it can scan a physical space and then I can see a digital reproduction of that space on VR goggles...but then what? Do I just stand there looking around the space?
A common one is VR visits for real estate companies and travel agencies, for example. Also virtual previews for investors and C-suite execs in meetings where there was a ton of money involved - think someone trying to sell the creation of a whole neighbourhood and this is a fancy version of a powerpoint slide for their pitch.
This tech could probably have saved us a good amount of work, though It's still a head scratcher why Zuck thinks this is the one thing in which to bet the company's future.
Yes. There's a mini-industry doing this for real estate.[1] Some systems let you place furniture in the 3D model.
Versions of this idea go all the way back to Apple's "Quicktime VR", which was a chain of spherical images through which you could navigate.
It's a long way from a fun metaverse. (Doing a big metaverse at all is difficult. Making it fun is even harder.)
[1] https://go.matterport.com/RealEstate3DTours.html
Lack of imagination and willingness to rely on someone else's judgement - other than the cyberpunk authors he read as a teen?
> Lack of imagination and willingness to rely on someone else's judgement
Perhaps, but given that his financial and investment judgement so far has netted him $250b, I think he gets the benefit of the doubt.
One of those use cases is training in industrial settings like factories, mines, or construction sites. It is a lot cheaper and safer to have workers take their first steps in a VR environment rather than on the actual location.
At the moment, a lot of this training is implemented as custom 3D applications using e.g. Unity. I imagine that something like Hyperscape would make it much easier and faster to create and share VR environments for this purpose.
Either way, I don't see this taking off. I'm surprised they're still pursuing VR.
He seems to have an obsession of breaking free of Apples control.
I get that some people have a psychological mindset to "be in a place so as to do work" but offices are a compromise on so many things, most notably space.
Now you have tech to create entire wondrously imaginative virtual worlds and you want to recreate a bland little open plan box to cram avatars into?
Set some specifics, like open space, chair, table/desk. And you could have Hogwarts theme while I have a viking feasting hall.
I imagine if you ever want to "hang out in VR", it would be nice to do it in your own virtual living room, instead of the imaginary virtual spaces.
The technology is neat. I don't know that either of those justifies the R&D effort. So just try to enjoy that neat technology exists for its own sake.
At that point you can have a very convincing VR performance with cheap hardware. That handles much much more viewer IPDs and head positions etc, than one of those expensive omni-directional camera rigs.
That said, the more general aspect of "accessible, user generatable content" is a better way to look at it.
Online meetup for Disney fans: each week in a different scan of the park
Online consultation with interior design or architect: takes place in you existing house and saves travel for someone billing $x hundred an hour.
Online highschool reunion planning meeting with people spread over the world: takes place at the highschool or potential venues
Deployed military personel meeting remotely on his anniversary with his wife: takes place where they had their first date
I thought we would have already had this with photogrammetry back in 2016 when the Vive released with a camera, but that usually involved too much cleanup and optimizing geometry and couldn't be done automatically, along with the issues with reflections. I was also really surprised Google Earth VR didn't add in multiplayer soon after launch for similar use cases.
What are the other direct uses?
* Surveys (I had the county come in once in my sort-of legal rental appartment when they were legalising them, they needed to make a floor plan and fire safety recommendations)
* Real estate, which already uses 360 degree photo's and simplified 3d floor plan models
* Video games. Very generic usage.
* Virtualised museums, but those would likely need extra work to make all the placards etc readable
* Street View next level, also indoor navigation.
(I first saw it in 1999, when it was considered old hat. I can only imagine how much more advanced it's become.)
Its pretty safe to assume that the primary driver of this is data hoovering for selling ads, everything else is just PR spin from the Meta thinktanks.
They're not happy to have a successful game store, they want me to use a VR headset to determine my schedule. Which I guess is alright, if I can also access my schedule with a desktop computer or a phone. Why I'd want to use VR to determine my schedule is beyond me, I think a 'minority report' kind of interface could be possible but it is 2025 and you'd think people would expect a conversational recommender that works everywhere.
Caving is one of those things where not many people get to go there and any damage is irreversible. Combined with other information, such scanning could provide invaluable information for geology.
But yeah, not in my house. I already used Valetudo to ensure my robot vacuum doesn't send info about my house anywhere. Why the hell would I do a high detail scan and upload it?
So you can completely change it all afterwards, and then highly confuse any criminal that comes in to try and take advantage of it?
Have fun planning to steal my Rhino Warframe!
I remain unconvinced re. his management style. Thus far it seems to work if the product is oriented around A/B testing.
Strange how all the major technologies atm are concerned - at least partly - with escaping reality.
It's popular with real estate agents. Not quite "virtual reality" but it also doesn't need expensive glasses. It does seem like future smartphones with AI may be a decent cheaper substitute for $6000 Matterport cameras.
https://scaniverse.com/@UP8
People don't see posts from friends. The site spams you to death. They hijacked your email address, and replaced it with a facebook.com address. They've lied rather a lot about things generally
And that company is now the one presenting a Metaverse/VR/AR/whatever
It should be DOA just based on reputation, never mind the technical merits
For starters, Quest is by far the biggest selling VR/XR headset. So he is already seeing some success here.
And as we’ve seen before, Facebook isn’t going to dominate forever. It makes complete sense throwing large sums of money at future technology while you still have large sums of money to burn.
Chasing new technology when you’re already behind and your revenue is decline is a guaranteed way to fail.
Moonshots like this you waste a tonne of money when that money is comparatively cheap anyway. Plus it keeps people talking about your business, which is never a bad thing.
[0] https://www.ft.com/content/df26fc4c-5488-4994-b2b8-be4bfbda2...
> Moonshots like this you waste a tonne of money when that money is comparatively cheap anyway.
Can you explain that assertion in more detail?
The further out into the future you go, the less valuable the returns are when taken back into the present.
The reality is, Mr Zuck is a manager who is there to invest the cash of its shareholders on their behalf into projects that beat the hurdle rate. Shareholders dont care abut how cool the tech is.
Meta establishing VR and the underlying ecosystem, building a moat, makes lots of long term sense (if they succeed).
HN crowd often criticizes big tech for milking ads and the lack of innovation. Meta deserves credit for sinking their own money into future techs like VR.
By the way, Exxon the oil company funded early research of lithium ion battery tech by Dr. Whittingham, clearly not for short term benefits.
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_lithium-ion_bat...
Any movie depictions of VR are fully immersive - Ready Player One (at least the film) takes some liberties in depicting the game world as if it's immersive, even though the guy plays with VR glasses and force feedback gloves/suits, all current-day technology. Most others have a direct brain interface. Some (Star Trek) model a realistic immersive environment around the player, but both of those are very much science fiction still.
There's some brain / tech interfaces, but if I recall correctly the brain has to learn to handle the signals first, there's no way to create a perfect, instant link.
Games where you are stationary (racing simulation, mainly) are better suited to it. Gran Turismo 7 in PSVR2 with a Logitech racing wheel was a ridiculously immersive experience. I played through the whole game in VR and it was one of the best gaming experiences I've had and certainly the most immersive, particularly as a diehard car guy. But racing sims are fairly niche.
Outside of racing sims, it's still immersive, but any games with character movement give me immediate motion sickness, the movement is too clunky and disorienting.
If they can figure that out at a reasonable price point the demand will be there because the immersion is just night and day against a screen.
Many of us didnt. I wouldnt call low resolution and low PPI (significantly lower than desktop displays) "good enough." Not to mention terrible optics. I would use my current device a lot more if it could match the "viewable" resolution of my desktop displays, but currently, it can not.
Or maybe you think a headset doesn't add anything to the experience of viewing a space. If so, I'd have to ask whether you'd actually used one. Because if there's any inarguably uniquely appropriate use case for VR, it's "viewing architectural spaces"
> It says 96 million VR headsets will be shipped in 2020
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paullamkin/2016/02/17/wearable-...
Turns out they sold half as much.... in 5 years: https://startupsmagazine.co.uk/article-over-51-million-vr-he...
> the VR/AR market will reach $182 billion in revenue, including hardware and software/content, by 2025 and bypass television.
https://www.startbeyond.co/media/idcvrrevenuereport
Meanwhile: "The global virtual reality (VR) market size was valued at $16.32 billion in 2024"
I don't know anyone with a social life who care about these toys, the only people I know of who are semi interested already spend 6+ hours a day gaming.
Stupid claims by people trying to pump investment hype have no bearing on my interest in the medium.
> I don't know anyone with a social life who care about these toys, the only people I know of who are semi interested already spend 6+ hours a day gaming.
The people I know with an interest in VR are mainly artists and other forms of creatives. We must move in different circles.
On the other hand, I do. Isnt it crazy that like, different people have different experiences? Who would have thought!
No one "needs" to push for that bullshit metaverse, the real world isn't shitty enough, yet, apparently they're dead set and achieving that, for people to wish to live in a computer.
It’s a lot of money, but the WFP has spent more than that in the past 10 years on the problem.
A lot of the issues with world hunger aren’t easy solved by throwing more money at it. Politics, logistics, corruption etc. It can’t be solved without money either, of course.
Not to say that money couldn’t be better spent elsewhere than the metaverse.
They are not burning money, they are employing people like you directly or through 3rd party partner companies. The beneficiaries can decide themselves how to spend money. They can live a good life or help others.
Seems like you are the one with an outdated model of how money works.
Over the last couple decades it has been moving up at an ever increasing rate instead of down.
Somehow Facebook getting a huge amount of money. They are distributing that money to a million people (directly or indirectly to employees, share holders, employees of 3rd party partners). Some people are getting billions and some are getting $100s.
Instead of handful of people in Facebook management deciding to be humanitarian, you now have a million people deciding what to do with their portion. It is that simple.
i want my point cloud scanner dammit
I don't think any of the cameras run at 90hz, I'm pretty sure the slam cameras run at 25hz, with the IMU doing the rest. (that might have changed, It also may have been 15hz, I can't remember)
Also, again from memory, its been a year since I actually worked on it, the colour camera does some fancy fusion to make a compound image. The images need to be warped properly so that depth is displayed properly.
Now there’s a sad sad thought - imagine if Kodak required monthly subscription to vote your photos
But knowing a little bit about gaussian splatting, I can't think what manual steps requiring human assistance are even likely to be necessary?