Ever since I rode in a BYD in China I've thought it would be great to be able to get one in the USA. It just really felt complete, put together and polished in a way that I haven't seen in a "normie" U.S. car in a long time. Too bad our country uses high tariffs and regulatory barriers to protect its dinosaur companies.
DanielVZ 4 hours ago [-]
Ever since I ride them constantly in Chilean Ubers I wish other EVs were more prevalent because how the aluminum bends and creaks sometimes when I sit on the backseat doesn’t make me feel any safe (I weight 90kg).
renewiltord 3 hours ago [-]
Haha what was the manufacturer? I drove a Changan Uni-T there and it was not an EV and handled like a boat but a very serviceable car. To be honest, I was surprised because it was the first Chinese car I'd driven and my mind was blown how far they'd come.
gkanai 3 hours ago [-]
> it would be great to be able to get one in the USA.
Allowing in Chinese EVs into markets where there are important domestic auto manufacturers will be very bad for those domestic manufacturers. (US, Germany, France, S.Korea, Japan, etc.) Outside of Tesla, none have EV brands competitive with the Chinese firms and if customers in those non China markets migrate to Chinese brands en masse, it would be tremendous disruption and the failure of many storied domestic brands.
It is important that the US have strong auto companies. Same is true for Germany, France, Japan, S. Korea, etc.
China should have strong car companies for their domestic market. The problem comes when they end up destroying other/outside markets.
Look at solar panels, drones, batteries, for similar comparisons.
gyomu 1 hours ago [-]
> It is important that the US have strong auto companies. Same is true for Germany, France, Japan, S. Korea, etc.
It is.
But the reality is that those companies are complacent fossils who have lost all their vigor, and only threat of extinction would force them to innovate. Which they’re not under because legislators agree with you (in no small part thanks to their lobbyists).
Like many things, we’ll realize the extent of how badly we messed up when it’s way too late.
petesergeant 32 minutes ago [-]
The right way to do that is to lower the tax rate on these foreign models a little bit; enough to spur competition, not enough to crash local manufacturing capacity.
intended 2 hours ago [-]
Or you know - American companies can give customers a better product, instead of hiding behind yet another “too big to fail” scenario.
America was synonymous with competition. To see protectionism championed, is to really see the end of an empire.
gkanai 22 minutes ago [-]
It's not that simple.
China has supported key industries (like EVs, batteries, solar, semiconductors) that it views as strategic. Each country should do the same for their own situation. There is no such thing as pure capitalism- and what you see is 'protectionism' is to a lawmaker a way to ensure that the local company survives and provides jobs for the local region/state, etc.
And as the other commenter mentioned, auto manufacturing plants were retooled to make tanks and jeeps in WW2 and so no country that cares about their own military survival should cede auto manufacturing to another country, let alone China.
delusional 35 minutes ago [-]
> It is important that the US have strong auto companies.
Totally agree. The problem is that it instead has General Motors and Ford.
milesrout 2 hours ago [-]
In what sense are domestic car manufacturers "important"? They're inefficient if they're being outcompeted by China.
ggm 2 hours ago [-]
You can't rely on Chinese companies to make the tanks and rockets you intend aiming at China.
Car manufacturers serve many purposes. Aside from keeping the UAW membership onside, they are a strategic buttress for an emerging future war risk.
Australia maintained subsidies to Ford and GM for onshore production precisely because of this. And they stopped when a strategic realignment made successive governments decide the risk didn't justify the expense. A decision they may now be regretting.
tehjoker 33 minutes ago [-]
Since there’s no good reason to do any of that, we should absolutely lose that capability since to use it is to abuse it
solresol 2 hours ago [-]
If the "outcompeting" is possible because of Chinese government subsidies, then it's important to protect local industry from unfair competition.
It's similar to the logic behind anti-trust actions against monopolists. If the playing field isn't level, then the USA government steps in to level it.
(Whether BYD is subsidised or not is another question, but the above is the logic of protecting local industry.)
justinclift 1 hours ago [-]
> If the playing field isn't level, then the USA government steps in to level it.
More recently though, it kind of seems like if the playing field isn't tipped strongly towards the US, then the US government will step in to tip it their way.
gamblor956 2 hours ago [-]
Contrasting opinion:
BYD made electric busses for US transit agencies. They were the worst buses that I have ever ridden. Today, no U.S. transit agency still uses BYD busses, because none of them managed a service live longer than about a year.
BYD vehicles seem really nice for the first few hours, until you start discovering all the corners they cut to make their price point.
gkanai 20 minutes ago [-]
> Today, no U.S. transit agency still uses BYD busses, because none of them managed a service live longer than about a year.
This is a fascinating data point. This should be more prominent.
noufalibrahim 30 minutes ago [-]
I've never used BYD vehicles but I've felt this about budget vehicles. Eg. In India, a Hyundai/kia sedan will be cheaper than a Toyota or a Honda of the same class with much more features.
However, they start to break down and over a while, you can see the corners they cut.
throwaway-0001 43 minutes ago [-]
Tbh i have to agree with you. I tried byd and cuts corners everywhere. Look at the screen: static video instead of Tesla interactive, low screen dpi. Other small details I can’t recall.
I also don’t like Tesla, but at least they have a nicer screen. Tesla also has big gaps between their parts looking from outside.
hackernewds 4 hours ago [-]
By dinosaur companies, you mean Tesla and Elon Musk
eucyclos 2 hours ago [-]
From what I see in the roads in China, Tesla is pretty competitive in the right environment
throwaway-0001 41 minutes ago [-]
Yes, it’s impressive there are so many Teslas in China. I saw at least 10-20% of Teslas there. But I think it’s not because of being competitive price wise but more about status.
bdangubic 4 hours ago [-]
dinosaur would be a compliment for tesla which designs/releases one new car every decade (each delayed by a decade from initial release date) :)
mkl 3 hours ago [-]
They've released 6 models in the 22 years since founding (not counting Semi).
bdangubic 2 hours ago [-]
BYD released that many since you wrote this comment :)
Also check the same for say a Toyota
gruez 3 hours ago [-]
>dinosaur would be a compliment for tesla which designs/releases one new car every decade
...because they don't do model years? Most cars are like that too, except they increment the model year annually, whether or not there are substantive changes.
bdangubic 2 hours ago [-]
model years what now? :)
fragmede 4 hours ago [-]
Which is even more embarrassing, because they're miles ahead of the carmakers that came before them.
ryandrake 3 hours ago [-]
The time separating Stegosaurus and Tyrannosaurus Rex is greater than the time separating T. Rex from modern-day humans. Dinosaurs are dinosaurs but yes, Chrysler is from an even more ancient time than Tesla.
DangitBobby 3 hours ago [-]
Not really
fragmede 3 hours ago [-]
which is an entirely fine opinion, but would you mind using more words so our readers have something more to engage with?
nine_zeros 4 hours ago [-]
At this point, a byd is a far superior car for the price. You should test drive one when you get a chance to escape North Korea, er, I mean America.
apwell23 3 hours ago [-]
i did. its poor quality like tesla.
lyime 2 hours ago [-]
China subsidies Byd. It would be bad for american car industry. So if US wants to create a fair competition, they would need to use tariffs or subsidies the US car industry players that could compete fairly with BYD.
Looks like US is using tariffs to compete.
thewileyone 2 hours ago [-]
Tesla relies on US govt subsidies as well.
hangonhn 1 hours ago [-]
And the Tesla factory in Shanghai also gets Chinese subsidies.
The subsidies to Chinese EV companies isn't direct anymore. Most of it is in the form of tax refunds. The biggest "subsidy", though, is the incredible pipeline China has built to feed the industry. Their industrial policy has created an huge ecosystem capable of feeding batteries and components into their EV industry at a price point and scale that no other country can compete with. It's been an incredibly effective industrial policy.
I get what the OP means about the destruction of our auto industry but we can only hide behind that for so long. An ineffective and noncompetitive auto industry won't be able to scale up during a war either. I hope our industrial leaders and politicians are using tariffs and other trade barriers to the US car industry only as a temporary reprieve while we scale up our ecosystem too. Otherwise we run the risk of becoming one of those countries that keeps outdated domestic companies alive just to say we have those companies. Without export discipline and the ability to compete effectively on the global stage, domestic companies are just zombies kept alive by domestic subsidies. They won't be able to help us in the event of a war with a peer adversary.
socalgal2 2 hours ago [-]
All US car companies rely on US govt subsidies
socalgal2 2 hours ago [-]
Is that really correct? I have no idea how to compare one to the other but if I search for "how much money did China give BYD" the AI claims 3.7 billion. If I ask "how much money did the US government give Tesla" it has 3 different numbers. $4.9 billion, $11 billion, and $38 billion. Not sure how it's counting
Asking for other companies: Ford $9 billion, Chevy $11 billion
No idea if this is made up and no idea how to compare them but without knowing better it seems like both sides are subsidized
justinclift 1 hours ago [-]
> No idea if this is made up
It's an AI generated answer. That's always the problem so you shouldn't be using it as a factual information source.
socalgal2 45 minutes ago [-]
Just because AI found an answer doesn't mean it's not true
This is the type of statement that often comes from pro China people. Because the quality of BYD in China is lower than outside of China, making it more propaganda than truth.
jakeinspace 6 hours ago [-]
3000 hp? Not sure if that's measured at the "crank" or the dynamo, but that's over 2MW, probably pushing 2.5MW of power draw from the batteries assuming a motor efficiency of 90% and some other losses. Apparently that's getting drawn at 1.2kV from the batteries, so "only" around 2kA of current draw.
That top power draw would drain the 80kWh batteries in around 2 minutes, though I'm guessing you'd hit thermal throttling or catastrophic failure before that. The batteries are allegedly rated to 30C, meaning 2 minutes to full discharge at max current.
I'm curious how the heat dissipation of EVs compares to ICE vehicles. You have much higher efficiency vs combustion and get to split the power between 4 motors instead of one engine, but you don't get the heat capacity of a massive engine block, or the convection of cold air intake + hot exhaust out the tailpipe.
est 6 hours ago [-]
> how the heat dissipation of EVs compares to ICE vehicles
Xiaomi Su7 Ultra had a 400W twin fan, 530W liquid pump and a 28kW heat dissipation for powertrain.
jakeinspace 4 hours ago [-]
28kW of dissipation is pretty solid, though obviously is irrelevant during a short burst with hundreds of watts of heat generated. I guess the frame itself act as the fallback heatsink for storing excess heat in these scenarios? Because by my math, a modest 100kg heatsink (no idea if that's reasonable) would reach 270°C in only around 45 secondw if it's trying to handle 250kW+ of heat transfer (270C is roughly the max differential for heat pipes,liquid cooling might be significantly lower limit). And obviously the batteries can't handle 270C.
gsnedders 2 hours ago [-]
Motor output, so you’ll still have transmission loses beyond that (but with a fixed drivetrain, with no multi-speed gearbox, quite possibly more like 95%).
> The U9 was developed by German car designer Wolfgang Egger, who previously served as a head designer for Alfa Romeo, Audi and Lamborghini, and began working for BYD in 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangwang_U9
jansan 11 hours ago [-]
Seven minutes for the Nordschleife? Sabine Schmitz could have done that with a van.
But honestly, ther are a Lot of production cars that went considerably faster. And the non-production Porsche 919 Hybrid EVO did it in 5:19, which is an entirely different league.
chakintosh 10 hours ago [-]
This is why the Ring is the absolute benchmark of how well rounded a car is.
potato3732842 7 hours ago [-]
>of how well rounded a car is.
For performance applications. None of these cars are great daily drivers.
xattt 6 hours ago [-]
… to quote James May!
vjvjvjvjghv 6 hours ago [-]
That's not the point of the Nordschleife :-)
potato3732842 6 hours ago [-]
A lot of the cars for which lap times are an marketable feature are at least decent daily drivers.
These are not those cars though.
dijit 11 hours ago [-]
and here we learn that fast and a straight line does not necessarily mean fastest round the track.
There is a “car” in my hometown in Coventry that goes (I think) 700 mph, but I can only do it in a straight line because it’s powered by two turbo jet engines
And it is very difficult to fine a straight road that is long enough to reach the top speed. At the Volkswagen test track the Bugatti had to leave the oval with 200km/h to reach top speed on the connected 9km straight track.
lossolo 9 hours ago [-]
> Porsche 919 Hybrid EVO did it in 5:19
If anyone hasn't seen this, I highly recommend it, even if you're not a car fan.
Insane. 368 top speed, I can't even watch it without flinching. The first time it hit seventh gear I was like: "what, one more?".
vjvjvjvjghv 6 hours ago [-]
That just looks unreal. I wonder if this is reaching the point where a driver can't keep up anymore.
HaZeust 7 minutes ago [-]
They study the cars and the track in and out for years beforehand - this isn't top power level of even most Nordschleife specialists
twilo 6 hours ago [-]
They can do better
crummy 3 hours ago [-]
what is "boost"? my car does not have that
jackvalentine 1 hours ago [-]
Intake pressure provided by the turbo or supercharger - basically exhaust gasses spin one side of the turbine that causes the other side to pump air in to the engine at higher-than-atmospheric pressure.
This allows for more fuel to be added for more bang per engine stroke!
selectodude 3 hours ago [-]
It’s the amount of boost provided by the turbocharger. Your car very well may have that.
nabla9 10 hours ago [-]
It's the fastest EV lap currently.
pengaru 10 hours ago [-]
> Seven minutes for the Nordschleife? Sabine Schmitz could have done that with a van.
Sabine Shmitz did the 19,100m length in 10:08.49 using the ford transit van.
That's a far cry from 7:14
jansan 9 hours ago [-]
I did not expect that anyone would take the first part of my comment seriously, but here we go.
However, this year a Ford SuperVan 4.2 made the Nordschleife in 6:48.393, so even without Sabine Schmitz a van was faster than the BYD.
its_down_again 9 hours ago [-]
There’s no point comparing apples to deep fried oreos for caloric density. The 919 Evo is a fully de-restricted prototype based off a legendary homologated race car, not remotely in the same category. The BYD U9 is a road-legal EV, comparing the two doesn’t mean much.
Funny you mention the Ford SuperVan because that’s much closer to the 919 Evo in the "no homologation no limits" category than anything you could register and drive off a lot. A fairer and much more impressive benchmark is the road-legal Ford Mustang GTD running a 6:52. That's still far quicker than the BYD, with roughly two thousand less horsepower.
And it was driven by Romain Dumas someone far more qualified to set such a record than Sabine Shmitz - despite your "even without Sabine Shmitz" disingenuous wording. Sabine is half television personality half racing driver...
pedantnews 7 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
esafak 5 hours ago [-]
Meanwhile, the Tesla Roadster is nowhere to be seen. China really has arrived.
moomoo11 4 hours ago [-]
You need to enter a K hole to see it.
5 hours ago [-]
Veedrac 9 hours ago [-]
It's wild that after a hundred years there is still exponential progress in the power output of cars. The most unusual part to me is how EVs are fundamentally a consumer technology, so it all rapidly falls into mass production territory; eg. Xiaomi sells a 1527hp car for $73k. Horsepower is rapidly reaching 'solved' territory; even at its record speed, BYD's car wasn't even power limited.
bobthepanda 7 hours ago [-]
Power for power’s sake is not necessarily a good thing.
There is some indication that putting rapidly accelerating cars on streets is leading to a proliferation of accidents.
hamdingers 3 hours ago [-]
A car with a 4 second 0-60 time can reach 40mph, a speed lethal to 80% of pedestrians, in under 80 feet from a standstill. That's the distance from the limit line to the far crosswalk when crossing a 5 lane road.
Putting this level of performance (and better) into boring suburban SUVs bought by ambivalent consumers is negligence.
Veedrac 6 hours ago [-]
For sure; the US kills literally hundreds of thousands of people in ways other countries have solved, and bigger faster vehicles seems at odds with the lack of driver and infrastructure responsibility here. I don't want to make light of that.
I just had the numbers run to check this. About 650,000 fewer people would have died over my short life so far, if the US had the vehicle fatality rate of my home country.
tim333 7 hours ago [-]
The power isn't much use for driving down the road but maybe we can hook it to fans and have flying cars at last.
- 6:59.127 Lap Time - The first lap record on the Nürburgring
- 496.22 km/h - The Fastest Car on the Planet
- 1200v - World's first series-production model with ultra-high-voltage platform
- Over 3000 HP - Global horsepower record for production cars
- 30000 rpm - Global fastest motor rpm - 4 motors
msk-lywenn 12 hours ago [-]
Funny that it packs 3000hp while the Chiron « only » needs 1600hp to achieve mostly the same speed.
nostrademons 12 hours ago [-]
At that speed the limiting factor likely moves from raw power output to things like cornering ability on the track, grip of the tires, aerodynamics, downforce, driver skill, mechanical linkages, etc.
There's a reason why all the world's land speed records since the 1930s [1] get set at the Bonneville Salt Flats or similar flat desert terrain. FWIW, the speed listed in this article was exceeded in 1937. The hard part is not necessarily going fast, it's going fast in a street-legal vehicle.
For a top speed run, cornering ability is next to useless. You need grip to put down the power and be stable at speed, the corners taken for top speed runs are fairly wide. The bigger issue here is for how long can a BEV sustain max power output - it can deplete its battery in 2 minutes. EVs also can only produce top power whilst battery is at top voltage, since draining it drops voltage, max power drops with charge levels. The tyre grip itself is fine, the issue is tyre durability - they can usually last less than 20 minutes at top speed.
It is an impressive feat of engineering to get to a vmax record in a BEV.
privatelypublic 6 hours ago [-]
I'll need evidence of "Top power at Top Voltage." Since so little capacity is at that part of the curve, It'd make sense to design around (as in avoid, not feature) it rather than use it.
I suspect theres inductance and capacitance enough that even if the motors can't handle the voltage, it can be "clipped" until the pack comes down. (Especially since fmu these are 3phase AC motors, the motor driver is already regulating voltage and current to produce whatever the optimal waveform is)
brianwawok 6 hours ago [-]
Well you can see reports of people drag stripping teslas, and comparing speeds at 100 vs 90 vs 50% charge. Whatever the reason, you do slow down.
privatelypublic 5 hours ago [-]
Apples to broccoli comparison. Besides what I mentioned being optional (I'm sure it has downsides, probably cost), comparing road legal cars with a supercar is... interesting.
foobarian 5 hours ago [-]
You don't need a Tesla to figure this out, my toy RC monster truck does the same thing.
tim333 11 hours ago [-]
There was quite an interesting youtube from Engineering Explained speculating it had enough power to do 400 mph. There may have been other constraints limiting things like the tyres being safe and apparently the battery only has capacity for 2 mins at full power, plus bits may overheat and the like.
It's also interesting that the fastest time on the Nürburgring at 5 min 19 was from a Porsche hybrid with 900 hp, a fair bit quicker than the BYD which took 6:59 I think. The Porsche had a lot more downforce than the BYD.
linsomniac 3 hours ago [-]
>the battery only has capacity for 2 mins at full power
"The tires on the Veyron can only last 15 minutes at top speed, but that's ok because the fuel tank only has capacity for 7 minutes at top speed." (From memory, IIRC, Top Gear on the Veyron)
> the tires will only last for about 15 minutes but it's okay because the fuel runs out in 12 minutes
chakintosh 10 hours ago [-]
> 5 min 19 was from a Porsche hybrid with 900 hp
You're talking about the non-production Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo race car. A Corvette ZR1X did 6:49 with a third of the HP
spookie 10 hours ago [-]
Yeah, the weight and battery are the limiting factors. Their battery tech is impressive though.
oritron 12 hours ago [-]
I watched a video of the speed test a few days ago and it looked like the BYD car was still accelerating when the top speed was reached, such that it could have gone faster than the record they were aiming for—there was a speed curve and it wasn't plateauing. Of course there are lots of possible reasons why the car couldn't have managed a higher speed, but I wonder if it's like incredibly tall skyscrapers having secretly validated a taller version in the wind tunnel so they can change plans if competition catches up during construction.
gsnedders 2 hours ago [-]
Tyres are almost certainly the limiting factor here; also I forget how close to the (admittedly banked) turn it was when it hit its top speed.
fpoling 12 hours ago [-]
The best batteries have like 40 times less energy density than engines running on oil derivatives. Even considering that electrical engines are 90% efficient while combustion engines get like 25% efficiency, that still leaves the factor of 10 for energy density. That implies much bigger weight. And to compensate the engines must be more powerful.
chakintosh 10 hours ago [-]
Head to head, the Chiron SS would probably smoke this car at the top end, heat is a way more difficult problem to deal with for EVs than ICEs.
cenamus 12 hours ago [-]
Well, power at top speed will probably be similar, they don't seem to be too different aerodynamically (maybe the Bugatti has got the edge there, but still, won't be a 2x difference).
The question is also how much power the battery can continuously output, if it's the 3000hp for 15 seconds that won't be of much use for a max speed test.
It seems to me like building the fastest EV has nowhere near the complexity of building the fastest ICE car. Way too many moving parts and fine tuning required to get an engine to 440Kmh (Chiron SS) than an EV with 4 big motors.
torginus 10 hours ago [-]
I recommend you watch this video (the channel's pretty good in general):
While I agree with your statement in broad strokes - I'd reframe it as the same amount of engineering takes you much further in an EV than an ICE car. Considering this, the Chinese really swung for the fences, and what they made here is quite impressive
AlotOfReading 10 hours ago [-]
People have been putting engines that powerful in cars since Campbell's blue bird in the 1930s. I'm not going to say it's easy, but it's doable in custom vehicles.
The hard bits are connecting that power with the ground long enough to reach speed safely, and storing enough energy to do so. EVs don't solve that.
hengheng 10 hours ago [-]
Chiron still has that Piëch handwriting on it. It's driveable enough to take your wife to the opera. Full regulatory compliance, low wind noise at high speeds, all that. I don't want to say it is compromised, but it's not as extreme as it could be.
The closer ICE comparison would be Koenigsegg (447 kph/278 mph), Hennessy Venom GT (435/270) and SSC Tuatara (455/283, no shenanigans). SSC have reached 295, they were clearly aiming for 300. It's no 308 but it's reasonably close.
All these are also relatively small companies with relatively low budgets -- none of the big manufacturers seem interested in top speeds anymore.
beAbU 10 hours ago [-]
Yet none of the other mainstream automakers has done so.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 10 hours ago [-]
Are they even trying? It seems like the only reason to do this is for publicity. Maybe a manufacturer that's known for their ICE vehicles would want an opportunity to show off their electric vehicle engineering but I don't know any it would make a difference for. US manufacturers even sell electric trucks. It's not like any mainstream manufacturer needs to rebrand to sell electric vehicles.
lm28469 10 hours ago [-]
> Are they even trying?
Nope, probably too busy faking emission results, lobbying at the EU parliament , or designing overpriced mid tier cars in the US
ozgrakkurt 9 hours ago [-]
Research also might trickle down to production cars. Maybe research for some extreme project has more opportunity to find unexpected improvements compared to more tightly budgeted production research
onlypassingthru 10 hours ago [-]
Isn't the complexity in storing and and moving the electrons rapidly? Stringing a bunch of 18650s with a copper wire harness won't cut it. You've got to invent some novel chemistries and new materials to pull it off.
gsnedders 2 hours ago [-]
At a battery level it’s very doable — and certainly not as extreme as in most racing applications — it’s just a bunch of trade-offs.
spookie 10 hours ago [-]
Well, while impressive I would like to see them do a second lap right after or try the Nürburgring (seems they have, way off pace versus ICE cars).
One thing many car channels are pointing out is that the car could've reached even better numbers looking at how easily it reached its record pace. I wonder if the bottleneck is the battery. Hell, it supposedly discharges at full power in 2 minutes.
(Edit: noting they did the ring)
ricardobeat 7 hours ago [-]
The second fastest lap at the ring, and at least another five records in the top ten, are all EVs:
VW ID.R
Xiaomi SU7 Ultra
Lotus Evija X
F-150 Lightning SuperTruck
Nio EP9
Ford Transit SuperVan
#1 is the Porsche 919 Hybrid.
Cars built for straight line speed are rarely fast in a track – you won’t find the Bugattis breaking any fastest lap records either.
adamhartenz 9 hours ago [-]
This comment has the same vibe at "football is easy, because the rules are simple". Something is only easy if you don't have to compete with others. If it's "easy" for you, then it is easy for others. So being the best/fastest is hard.
diarrhea 10 hours ago [-]
It might indeed be more difficult to push obsolete technology ever further.
unglaublich 10 hours ago [-]
Which shows that ICEs are a ridiculous choice for performance cars?
kikimora 10 hours ago [-]
No, EV are too heavy. On an actual track they loose to lighter ICE cars since they corner better. Plus for a prolonged race EV might run out of battery.
seydor 10 hours ago [-]
are we bound to see a huge increase in speed limits as EVs start to dominate?
pengaru 10 hours ago [-]
no
SideburnsOfDoom 9 hours ago [-]
True, if your goal is "the fastest car, period" then you're going to pick the best technology for that. And as of now onwards, that's not Internal Combustion Engines. As you say, there are way too many moving parts in a legacy tech ICE engine.
freediver 2 hours ago [-]
It is a nice looking car, pleasently surprised.
ksynwa 3 hours ago [-]
Any chance F1 could move to electric ever?
superb_dev 3 hours ago [-]
Actually there is already an electric version of F1 called Formula E
ksynwa 1 hours ago [-]
I didn't know that. Thanks. It would be more interesting though if electric and fossil fuel cars could compete against one another in some circuit.
tstrimple 23 minutes ago [-]
Given the data and research that goes into these sorts of high dollar races, I suspect it wouldn't be very interesting. It would be a relatively simple calculation (that I cannot do and do not know all the variables for) to determine when the benefits of batteries clearly outweigh the benefits of combustion engines with quick and simple refuels. These teams know exactly how many laps they need to complete and the speed they need to do it in order to be competitive. They track the fuel and refuels and other pit stops very closely, so as soon as they can see they would benefit from batteries I'd expect almost the entire fleet to switch over. There will be almost no overlap between electric and combustion cars in races.
The only benefit combustion engines have is the current faster refuel and run time. Everything else about electric motors is far superior to combustion. If and when F1 can hot-swap battery packs efficiently, combustion engines will be dead in that sport.
leonnatus 3 hours ago [-]
There's formula E for that.
mhh__ 2 hours ago [-]
Probably not because of the batteries being too heavy and not having enough juice for a race, but more importantly because it would be terrible.
twilo 6 hours ago [-]
AMG One did it in 6:29.xxx
pstrateman 11 hours ago [-]
Is it a production car if they have made one and have sold zero?
Animats 10 hours ago [-]
The Yangwang U9 is a production car. This is a boosted version, the 9X Track Edition.
The regular 9X costs about US$236,000 before Trump tariffs. About half of a Ferrari. Also jumps potholes, can do tank turns, and has some autonomous capability.[1]
There's also the Yangwang U8, which is an hybrid off-road SUV. Does tank turns, and floats.
It's really a promotion for their other cars, but these things are sold in the UAE, Kuwait, and China, at least.
I find it interesting that Chinese brands copy Western brands, then Western brands copy Chinese brands and so on. Result is that new cohort of cars look like characterless AI slop.
userbinator 7 hours ago [-]
Most cars have looked like that long before AI.
encoderer 4 hours ago [-]
Soviet Union builds largest space shuttle.
bsaul 13 hours ago [-]
The kind of things that's going to put the last nail in the coffin of the german industry (in terms of brand image).
Look at the partners section. There's Palantir in there.
AtlasBarfed 11 hours ago [-]
It'll be a battery swap. There was that video of emergency battery pack ejection for battery fires, then you need a loading mechanism.
I haven't tracked LeMans much, I know the Toyota hybrids have been dominating it, but is it unrestricted hybrid drivetrains? Can builders make any kind of hybrid / regen / battery size / recharge drivetrain?
If not, I'd love to see what builders can do with go-nuts hybrids: wankel compact recharging, max-solid-state chems, etc.
dmix 11 hours ago [-]
It was designed by a German
oldpersonintx2 12 hours ago [-]
[dead]
vjvjvjvjghv 11 hours ago [-]
That's probably one of the least interesting records. Besides the tires, what's the problem reaching that speed? Need a big engine and some downforce. This is much easier than building a car that cam set a record on the track.
tim333 11 hours ago [-]
I guess it's interesting that you can do it in a street legal production car.
lm28469 10 hours ago [-]
> This is much easier than building a car that cam set a record on the track.
Why ? You "just" need a car that can steer and brake, what's the problem with steering and braking ? Need a steering wheel, good brake pads and tires
vjvjvjvjghv 6 hours ago [-]
On the track you need a good setup which has a lot of factors and can be very hard to achieve. Way more complex than going straight as fast as possible
Rendered at 06:01:03 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Allowing in Chinese EVs into markets where there are important domestic auto manufacturers will be very bad for those domestic manufacturers. (US, Germany, France, S.Korea, Japan, etc.) Outside of Tesla, none have EV brands competitive with the Chinese firms and if customers in those non China markets migrate to Chinese brands en masse, it would be tremendous disruption and the failure of many storied domestic brands.
It is important that the US have strong auto companies. Same is true for Germany, France, Japan, S. Korea, etc.
China should have strong car companies for their domestic market. The problem comes when they end up destroying other/outside markets.
Look at solar panels, drones, batteries, for similar comparisons.
It is. But the reality is that those companies are complacent fossils who have lost all their vigor, and only threat of extinction would force them to innovate. Which they’re not under because legislators agree with you (in no small part thanks to their lobbyists).
Like many things, we’ll realize the extent of how badly we messed up when it’s way too late.
America was synonymous with competition. To see protectionism championed, is to really see the end of an empire.
China has supported key industries (like EVs, batteries, solar, semiconductors) that it views as strategic. Each country should do the same for their own situation. There is no such thing as pure capitalism- and what you see is 'protectionism' is to a lawmaker a way to ensure that the local company survives and provides jobs for the local region/state, etc.
And as the other commenter mentioned, auto manufacturing plants were retooled to make tanks and jeeps in WW2 and so no country that cares about their own military survival should cede auto manufacturing to another country, let alone China.
Totally agree. The problem is that it instead has General Motors and Ford.
Car manufacturers serve many purposes. Aside from keeping the UAW membership onside, they are a strategic buttress for an emerging future war risk.
Australia maintained subsidies to Ford and GM for onshore production precisely because of this. And they stopped when a strategic realignment made successive governments decide the risk didn't justify the expense. A decision they may now be regretting.
It's similar to the logic behind anti-trust actions against monopolists. If the playing field isn't level, then the USA government steps in to level it.
(Whether BYD is subsidised or not is another question, but the above is the logic of protecting local industry.)
More recently though, it kind of seems like if the playing field isn't tipped strongly towards the US, then the US government will step in to tip it their way.
BYD made electric busses for US transit agencies. They were the worst buses that I have ever ridden. Today, no U.S. transit agency still uses BYD busses, because none of them managed a service live longer than about a year.
BYD vehicles seem really nice for the first few hours, until you start discovering all the corners they cut to make their price point.
This is a fascinating data point. This should be more prominent.
However, they start to break down and over a while, you can see the corners they cut.
I also don’t like Tesla, but at least they have a nicer screen. Tesla also has big gaps between their parts looking from outside.
Also check the same for say a Toyota
...because they don't do model years? Most cars are like that too, except they increment the model year annually, whether or not there are substantive changes.
Looks like US is using tariffs to compete.
The subsidies to Chinese EV companies isn't direct anymore. Most of it is in the form of tax refunds. The biggest "subsidy", though, is the incredible pipeline China has built to feed the industry. Their industrial policy has created an huge ecosystem capable of feeding batteries and components into their EV industry at a price point and scale that no other country can compete with. It's been an incredibly effective industrial policy.
I get what the OP means about the destruction of our auto industry but we can only hide behind that for so long. An ineffective and noncompetitive auto industry won't be able to scale up during a war either. I hope our industrial leaders and politicians are using tariffs and other trade barriers to the US car industry only as a temporary reprieve while we scale up our ecosystem too. Otherwise we run the risk of becoming one of those countries that keeps outdated domestic companies alive just to say we have those companies. Without export discipline and the ability to compete effectively on the global stage, domestic companies are just zombies kept alive by domestic subsidies. They won't be able to help us in the event of a war with a peer adversary.
Asking for other companies: Ford $9 billion, Chevy $11 billion
No idea if this is made up and no idea how to compare them but without knowing better it seems like both sides are subsidized
It's an AI generated answer. That's always the problem so you shouldn't be using it as a factual information source.
Elon Musk’s business empire is built on $38 billion in government funding https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/e...
Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16192
Subsidy Tracker: General Motors https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/general-moto...
etc... etc... etc...
That top power draw would drain the 80kWh batteries in around 2 minutes, though I'm guessing you'd hit thermal throttling or catastrophic failure before that. The batteries are allegedly rated to 30C, meaning 2 minutes to full discharge at max current.
I'm curious how the heat dissipation of EVs compares to ICE vehicles. You have much higher efficiency vs combustion and get to split the power between 4 motors instead of one engine, but you don't get the heat capacity of a massive engine block, or the convection of cold air intake + hot exhaust out the tailpipe.
Xiaomi Su7 Ultra had a 400W twin fan, 530W liquid pump and a 28kW heat dissipation for powertrain.
same car doing Nürburgring Lap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td_c1zeEn2Q
> The U9 was developed by German car designer Wolfgang Egger, who previously served as a head designer for Alfa Romeo, Audi and Lamborghini, and began working for BYD in 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangwang_U9
But honestly, ther are a Lot of production cars that went considerably faster. And the non-production Porsche 919 Hybrid EVO did it in 5:19, which is an entirely different league.
For performance applications. None of these cars are great daily drivers.
These are not those cars though.
There is a “car” in my hometown in Coventry that goes (I think) 700 mph, but I can only do it in a straight line because it’s powered by two turbo jet engines
If anyone hasn't seen this, I highly recommend it, even if you're not a car fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQmSUHhP3ug
This allows for more fuel to be added for more bang per engine stroke!
Sabine Shmitz did the 19,100m length in 10:08.49 using the ford transit van.
That's a far cry from 7:14
However, this year a Ford SuperVan 4.2 made the Nordschleife in 6:48.393, so even without Sabine Schmitz a van was faster than the BYD.
Funny you mention the Ford SuperVan because that’s much closer to the 919 Evo in the "no homologation no limits" category than anything you could register and drive off a lot. A fairer and much more impressive benchmark is the road-legal Ford Mustang GTD running a 6:52. That's still far quicker than the BYD, with roughly two thousand less horsepower.
> However, this year a Ford SuperVan 4.2 made the Nordschleife in 6:48.393, so even without Sabine Schmitz a van was faster than the BYD.
You are spouting such absurdities, that is a van in name only:
https://carbuzz.com/nurburgring-ford-supervan-42-lap-record-...
And it was driven by Romain Dumas someone far more qualified to set such a record than Sabine Shmitz - despite your "even without Sabine Shmitz" disingenuous wording. Sabine is half television personality half racing driver...
There is some indication that putting rapidly accelerating cars on streets is leading to a proliferation of accidents.
Putting this level of performance (and better) into boring suburban SUVs bought by ambivalent consumers is negligence.
I just had the numbers run to check this. About 650,000 fewer people would have died over my short life so far, if the US had the vehicle fatality rate of my home country.
- 6:59.127 Lap Time - The first lap record on the Nürburgring
- 496.22 km/h - The Fastest Car on the Planet
- 1200v - World's first series-production model with ultra-high-voltage platform
- Over 3000 HP - Global horsepower record for production cars
- 30000 rpm - Global fastest motor rpm - 4 motors
There's a reason why all the world's land speed records since the 1930s [1] get set at the Bonneville Salt Flats or similar flat desert terrain. FWIW, the speed listed in this article was exceeded in 1937. The hard part is not necessarily going fast, it's going fast in a street-legal vehicle.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_land_speed_records
It is an impressive feat of engineering to get to a vmax record in a BEV.
I suspect theres inductance and capacitance enough that even if the motors can't handle the voltage, it can be "clipped" until the pack comes down. (Especially since fmu these are 3phase AC motors, the motor driver is already regulating voltage and current to produce whatever the optimal waveform is)
(https://youtu.be/z6q7du1q2U8)
It's also interesting that the fastest time on the Nürburgring at 5 min 19 was from a Porsche hybrid with 900 hp, a fair bit quicker than the BYD which took 6:59 I think. The Porsche had a lot more downforce than the BYD.
"The tires on the Veyron can only last 15 minutes at top speed, but that's ok because the fuel tank only has capacity for 7 minutes at top speed." (From memory, IIRC, Top Gear on the Veyron)
> the tires will only last for about 15 minutes but it's okay because the fuel runs out in 12 minutes
You're talking about the non-production Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo race car. A Corvette ZR1X did 6:49 with a third of the HP
The question is also how much power the battery can continuously output, if it's the 3000hp for 15 seconds that won't be of much use for a max speed test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev6DiHOidcg
While I agree with your statement in broad strokes - I'd reframe it as the same amount of engineering takes you much further in an EV than an ICE car. Considering this, the Chinese really swung for the fences, and what they made here is quite impressive
The hard bits are connecting that power with the ground long enough to reach speed safely, and storing enough energy to do so. EVs don't solve that.
The closer ICE comparison would be Koenigsegg (447 kph/278 mph), Hennessy Venom GT (435/270) and SSC Tuatara (455/283, no shenanigans). SSC have reached 295, they were clearly aiming for 300. It's no 308 but it's reasonably close.
All these are also relatively small companies with relatively low budgets -- none of the big manufacturers seem interested in top speeds anymore.
Nope, probably too busy faking emission results, lobbying at the EU parliament , or designing overpriced mid tier cars in the US
One thing many car channels are pointing out is that the car could've reached even better numbers looking at how easily it reached its record pace. I wonder if the bottleneck is the battery. Hell, it supposedly discharges at full power in 2 minutes.
(Edit: noting they did the ring)
Cars built for straight line speed are rarely fast in a track – you won’t find the Bugattis breaking any fastest lap records either.
The only benefit combustion engines have is the current faster refuel and run time. Everything else about electric motors is far superior to combustion. If and when F1 can hot-swap battery packs efficiently, combustion engines will be dead in that sport.
The regular 9X costs about US$236,000 before Trump tariffs. About half of a Ferrari. Also jumps potholes, can do tank turns, and has some autonomous capability.[1]
There's also the Yangwang U8, which is an hybrid off-road SUV. Does tank turns, and floats.
It's really a promotion for their other cars, but these things are sold in the UAE, Kuwait, and China, at least.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYXGrt5qAuo
But they don't make false claims about them.
(1)
https://insidechinaauto.com/2025/02/11/byd-rolls-out-autonom...
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/11/cars/china-byd-smart-driv...
https://electriclemans.com/
plays out.
I haven't tracked LeMans much, I know the Toyota hybrids have been dominating it, but is it unrestricted hybrid drivetrains? Can builders make any kind of hybrid / regen / battery size / recharge drivetrain?
If not, I'd love to see what builders can do with go-nuts hybrids: wankel compact recharging, max-solid-state chems, etc.
Why ? You "just" need a car that can steer and brake, what's the problem with steering and braking ? Need a steering wheel, good brake pads and tires