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Why Are So Many Pedestrians Killed by Cars in the US? (construction-physics.com)
banga 25 minutes ago [-]
This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome.

So why do so many pedestrians get killed in the US? The two main reasons to me are: 1. Drivers don't look for pedestrians, and 2. pedestrians expect drivers to follow rules.

Another contributing factor is of course the huge vehicles that crush people with drivers barely noticing...

542354234235 3 minutes ago [-]
The reason drivers are able to drive like that is the design of the streets themselves. Things like raised crosswalks[1] and corner extensions[2] slow cars down and force them to pay attention. A lot of intersections in my area are the opposite, where they lower the whole curb to road level so cars can cut onto the curb to make the turn faster. There are lots of ways that the US builds infrastructure in ways that make it much more dangerous for pedestrians and bikers.

[0] https://highways.dot.gov/safety/speed-management/traffic-cal... [1] 3.14 Raised Crosswalk section of [0] [2] 3.16 Corner Extension/Bulbout section of [0]

Zambyte 8 minutes ago [-]
This comment makes it seem like people are built differently in the US than they are in the rest of the world, but that obviously isn't true. The roads (particularly intersections, where crashes tend to happen) are in fact built differently though. Urbanist resources like NotJustBikes and Oh The Urbanity! YouTube channels do a great job of highlighting the differences, and how they force drivers to pay attention through the laws of physics rather than the laws of signage.
Gigachad 2 minutes ago [-]
Some amount is likely cultural too.
cozzyd 3 minutes ago [-]
Yes one of the hardest things is to train a toddler for the hostile road conditions when she's biking, walking or scootering to school from the train station. Obviously I'm with her, but it's hard to explain the art of making eye contact to make sure the motorists acknowledge us at a crosswalk or stop sign
softwaredoug 23 minutes ago [-]
Right turns are really dangerous for pedestrians. A lot of localities started banning right-on-red because cars look left only.
potato3732842 10 minutes ago [-]
The problem is that even if they look back and fourth and know you're there the "go" condition (no incoming cross traffic) is the same for both parties so it's a ready made "two idiots trying to pass each other in the hallway" situation.

I think it speaks volumes that the discussion is anchored around whether cars look or not despite the fact that the underlying algorithm will produce conflicts even if they do.

ajuc 1 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
tbrownaw 6 minutes ago [-]
There's an intersection here where the crosswalk button lights up a "no right turn" light hanging next to the usual stoplights.
karma_fountain 12 minutes ago [-]
Cars don't look at all.
softwaredoug 4 minutes ago [-]
I've done my fair share of screaming "HEY!!!" as they pull out
_fat_santa 11 minutes ago [-]
One thing I always do is say a car is stopped at an intersection and is making a right turn while I'm in the crosswalk, I always look at the driver and where they are looking. Often times what I see is the driver will just look to see that the road is clear and never looks to see that the sidewalk is clear and just goes. I can count maybe 2-3 occasions where had I not done this I would have been run over.

This was one thing not talked about in the article: drivers in the US are not used to pedestrians outside of major cities like Boston, NYC, etc. I've seen drivers blow past me while I was in the crosswalk to rush and make a right turn and were bewildered that someone was actually using the crosswalk.

Waterluvian 9 minutes ago [-]
The more I look, the more I see a cultural mindset of “someone else’s problem; someone else’s fault.”

I see that in both 1, and 2, and the lawyer ads everywhere necessary to make the consequences also someone else’s problem and fault.

Zigurd 10 minutes ago [-]
Pedestrians pay with their lives so that we can have butch looking trucks in the US. Seriously. It's for the vanity of pavement queens. And it's measurable. Quantifiable. Regulators are unwilling to take on this problem because they'd be called woke.
Zambyte 5 minutes ago [-]
The "pavement queens" have been convinced they need larger by companies that sell trucks, because larger trucks have lower legal requirements for fuel efficiency.
physicsguy 15 minutes ago [-]
I was amazed when I travelled to the US at just how pedestrian hostile it is. I was travelling to a conference in San Diego and it was just impossible to walk safely between where I was staying and where I was going to because this was the road: https://maps.app.goo.gl/G2PeVbEzQyqbgDTN9
quantumwannabe 8 minutes ago [-]
Only because you chose to walk through the port instead of through town. Google Maps' walking route is shorter than the route that goes through that road, entirely on sidewalks, and only requires crossing one road wider than one car lane per direction (and said road has a signalized crosswalk). There is also a pedestrian bridge across that road that could be used instead, but Google didn't pick it, likely because it connects with "private" property (the convention center's path).

https://maps.app.goo.gl/asfGrRLkLmtpqnps5

throw-qqqqq 10 minutes ago [-]
Hahah I got stopped by cops twice for walking to a food court in San José ten years ago :D

They thought I was crazy for walking basically. After reassuring them I knew who and where I was, they let me walk off.

Much of America seems very car-centric (to a European like myself).

softwaredoug 6 minutes ago [-]
It has a lot to do with many Americans relationships to cities, and dare I say, wanting to be away from "those people" in the cities.

Some Americans can be hostile to increasing city density, arguing it will increase car traffic. Yet the whole point of dense cities is to help people avoid driving as you live next to everything.

Meanwhile development out in the hinterlands continues unabated, and the only way to get to the city if you live there is with a car.

When you ask the same Americans why they like visiting a resort or European city, they will talk about being able to walk around without a car to get everything they need.

softwaredoug 28 minutes ago [-]
Where I live they will randomly build a bike path for a mile on the side of the road. But then it just ends. There's not a sense of how it could be built to connect people to the places they need to go. It's random and ad-hoc. Then people say "its pointless to build bike / ped infrastructure, nobody uses it!"
danbolt 6 minutes ago [-]
I’ve lived in places where they’ll add the bike path during scheduled road work, as it’s cheaper to get it done while there’s a crew already onsite. It can be a bit stochastic at first like you mention, but over a while I’ve seen the corridor eventually fill out, making the most of a shoestring budget.

Perhaps something similar where you live?

AaronAPU 21 minutes ago [-]
Around here, there seems to be an unwritten rule that every place a trail crosses the road there must be a row of 20’ tall shrub blocking the entire line of visibility in both directions.
alterom 13 minutes ago [-]
My favorite feature of bicycle lanes in San Jose is that cars cross them diagonally to get onto highway access ramps.

Nothing screams "safety" like an SUV coming at you from behind and left while accelerating to highway speeds.

globular-toast 3 minutes ago [-]
This is a huge problem where I live too. The thing is, technically, everyone is equally connected, because people have a legal right of way on all roads using any means of transport (apart from motorways, but these are always redundant links). But practically, most routes are unsafe and just downright unpleasant to use in anything but a motorvehicle.

I don't know what metrics they are using to assess walking or cycling infrastructure, but it seems like it's just raw miles of pavement/tarmac. This is a useless metric. You can have 10 miles of pristine cycle path but if it goes nowhere it's not useful and nobody will use it.

The metrics need to be based on graph completeness. Important places are the nodes. You get to draw an edge if there's a reasonable route that is less than, say, 150% of the crow flies distance (or some more clever formula taking into account gradients etc., ie. it's allowed to be longer if it means not including a 25% gradient). Then your score is simply number of edges divided by number of edges in the complete graph (or 2E/(N^2*N) where E is number of edges and N number of places).

bradfa 35 minutes ago [-]
Pedestrians are hit by cars in the USA because the roads are not designed for non-car users. This is exacerbated by distracted driving, drunk driving, and recent car design changes like higher hood heights but the root of it is poorly designed roads which don’t consider pedestrians’ needs.
twelvechairs 21 minutes ago [-]
A huge part of poorly designed roads is wider lanes (and parking spaces) that allow/encourage huge cars. Its been proven that narrower lanes correlate strongly with lower crash and fatality rates (e.g. [0] below) yet lane widths are under pressure to increase with larger vehicles, and every time this happens the vehicles get larger again.

[0] https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/narrower-lanes-safer-stree...

CalRobert 10 minutes ago [-]
Higher speeds, too.
FridayoLeary 10 minutes ago [-]
I heard the fire department wants wide lanes so they can drive around in those huge behemoths they love.
ajuc 5 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
quantumwannabe 31 minutes ago [-]
Someone didn't read the article.
potato3732842 29 minutes ago [-]
>Someone didn't read the article.

Someone doesn't understand that any article that's drawing conclusions based on a workflow that involves putting a Chevy Suburban (functionally a chevy pickup from the B pillar forward) and a Honda HRV into the same category is sus at best and anyone uncritically accepting said conclusions is also sus at best.

If one wanted to be honest they'd look at GVW or some other metric that tracks size far more closely than a fairly arbitrary categorization that is highly gamed for regulatory reasons.

We're all just so sick of these shallow analysis. Shitting numbers and graphs onto them doesn't make them not shallow. Like what even is the point of a raw "deaths by state" map?[1]?

[1] https://xkcd.com/1138/

alterom 5 minutes ago [-]
>Like what even is the point of a raw "deaths by state" map?

It does give slightly more insight than the map of US state population per capita[1].

[1] https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=710896291698831&id...

willis936 25 minutes ago [-]
Suburbans are on truck chassis and are SUVs. HRVs are on car chassis and are crossovers. The bucket is called "trucks and SUVs" to make this less ambiguous.
potato3732842 17 minutes ago [-]
>Suburbans are on truck chassis and are SUVs. HRVs are on car chassis and are crossovers. The bucket is called "trucks and SUVs" to make this less ambiguous.

TFA does not use data broken down in that way.

TFA cites "sales by body type" which puts a 'Burb (functionally a pickup for this discussion) into the same category as a 2002 Forester (which is an SUV on paper, but obviously a car).

ToucanLoucan 13 minutes ago [-]
As an adamant enthusiast of both cars and infrastructure design, if someone puts a crossover in the trucks and SUVs category, I am dubious of anything that follows. Crossovers are basically just cars with higher rollover risk. They're lighter, they have smaller engines, they can stop more quickly, and overall have much, much better safety characteristics.

Like I'm sorry but if you put crossovers and SUVs in the same bucket for a discussion anywhere, but especially in the realm of safety, I'm not taking your opinions seriously.

willis936 27 minutes ago [-]
As compared to the European roads that are half the width of US roads?
denismenace 25 minutes ago [-]
Yes, european roads are not as wide, since they make place for proper sidewalks and bike lanes. Another advantage is that narrower roads make drivers drive more carefully and slowly, reducing accidents even further.
willis936 2 minutes ago [-]
Not in my experience. The road widths were set hundreds of years ago and the buildings have not changed. Walking around European and UK towns I find myself much closer to cars than walking around in the US. This is a factor in keeping car speed low, which likely affects how often and severe pedestrian collisions are.
tdeck 20 minutes ago [-]
In Japan many neighborhood roads (even in cities) are narrow and have no sidewalk to speak of. But I feel safe walking down them because drivers expect to go slow and look out for pedestrians and cyclists.

If you want to blow through an area fast, there are other roads for that with lighted crossings and sidewalks, and often slower mixed-use parallel roads for pulling in and out of businesses.

IanCal 9 minutes ago [-]
I wish people would stop assuming that an area with 500M people, more than 20 countries and far more cultures are one addressable block.

Some places are, others are absolutely awful.

> Another advantage is that narrower roads make drivers drive more carefully and slowly,

In some places, in others people go absolutely hell for leather because the roads are pretty fun.

This varies city to city.

willis936 55 seconds ago [-]
Then we shouldn't really be talking about the US, which has similar size and population stats, but instead individual cities and states. Denying that US states are correlated and European city construction are correlated is to ignore the history of how they were made.
ceejayoz 7 minutes ago [-]
I've no doubt it varies, but they're all doing something differently that seems to work versus the US.

> Other countries haven’t seen this increase in pedestrian deaths: in every other high-income country, rates are flat or declining. Whatever’s causing the problem seems to be limited to the US.

ajuc 18 minutes ago [-]
On small village roads with little traffic you don't even need pavements (not to mention bike paths) as long as the road is narrow and winding with good visibility. Cars drive slowly and rarely, it's perfectly fine to walk there.
trollbridge 9 minutes ago [-]
There are lots of narrow roads in America, like the one I currently live on, which is about 1.75 lanes wide. If I come up against a large truck, one of us has to pull to the side.

Most people prefer not to drive on roads like that.

throwaway173738 24 minutes ago [-]
Yeah. Halving the width halves the time to cross and also causes drivers to slow down in proportion even if the speed limit is significantly higher. Narrowing and placing “obstacles” is the only effective way of showing traffic permanently.
ajuc 11 minutes ago [-]
Yes. Wider roads are worse for safety.
micromacrofoot 25 minutes ago [-]
people drive slower on narrower roads — some traffic calming efforts in the US include making right turns at lights narrower so people slow down while potentially turning into a crosswalk
31 minutes ago [-]
gdulli 29 minutes ago [-]
It's more the trend in cars than the roads because the roads didn't change starting in 2009.
willis936 24 minutes ago [-]
And drivers. Readers should ask themselves when they first got a smartphone and if it was around 2009.
ceejayoz 17 minutes ago [-]
You should ask yourself whether smartphones are a US-only phenomenon. From the article:

> Other countries haven’t seen this increase in pedestrian deaths: in every other high-income country, rates are flat or declining. Whatever’s causing the problem seems to be limited to the US.

willis936 4 minutes ago [-]
Smartphones + US culture is limited to the US.
ceejayoz 3 minutes ago [-]
That's a deeply silly assertion.

Culture is one of our major and most successful exports. Afghan tribesmen have seen The Simpsons.

ajuc 10 minutes ago [-]
It reminds me of Americans blaming school shootings on video games as if nobody else in the world had them :)
CalRobert 5 minutes ago [-]
What's even sadder is seeing how many pedestrians are killed _even as far fewer people_, especially kids, are actually walking. It's like watching drownings increase even as fewer people take up swimming.

I walked to school in the 90's and even then the curtain-twitchers scolded my mom for letting me. It has only worsened since, as every destination is ages away and involves crossing multiple 45MPH stroads with monster trucks with 5 foot high hoods roaring down them.

kode95 3 minutes ago [-]
The tendency to compare the US to Europe in the comments here baffles me: Not only are there major differences with regards to roads and road safety between the countries of Europe, but there are also major differences within Europe when it comes to driving style, aggression, risk-taking, etc. If I, as a Dane, go to e.g. southern France, I'll see a completely different style of driving than in Denmark.
al_borland 24 minutes ago [-]
I don’t buy the distraction numbers. I see people on their phones constantly while driving, despite laws against it. It’s also impossible to really prove anything after the fact, as the article touches on. The graph shows a massive increase in “distraction not reported,” which to me just sounds like the driver didn’t choose to incriminate themself.

The spike started in 2010, which is when 4G was rolling out, Instagram launched, Facebook was already big, and social media in your pocket was becoming an addictive reality. Before this, there wasn’t a lot to do on a smartphone while driving.

ceejayoz 23 minutes ago [-]
Any attempt to blame it primarily on phones has to wrangle with the fact that those phones are available and in use everywhere on the planet, not just the USA.
mrweasel 3 minutes ago [-]
I was thinking the same, but many other countries have drivers and pedestrians more separated, to while the distraction, from either the driver or the pedestrians is still a problem, it's mitigated by the greater distance between the two.

Still the "on drug or drunk" for the pedestrians is wild.

shusaku 15 minutes ago [-]
My only critique of this is that maybe the countries they compared started to invested in safer urban driving infrastructure during the Lehman shock, and its counteracting the universal growth in distractedness
websiteapi 35 minutes ago [-]
I had a suspicion that there were more idiots on the road after and during covid. good to see this reflected in the data, but sad to know that it's actually true. no matter where I go in the USA I see people speeding easily 50% over the limit, running red lights, blowing through stop signs. it's ridiculous.

given how many people die I'm surprised government's having made safety technology mandatory. things like toyota safety sense are pretty effective - you can check on youtube. people will place random dummys in front of the car and it stops pretty accurately.

myrmidon 13 minutes ago [-]
> there were more idiots on the road after and during covid

I don't think the data really supports this, because pedestrian deaths have been rising continuously since 2008 instead of abruptly after 2019; there is at least a bunch of other factors at play.

Most suprising to me was the sharp rise in the "pedestrians on drugs" quota.

Personally, I think that "more distracted pedestrians" (from smartphones) is also an interesting theory which could possibly explain the huge increase in Sedan-lethality.

bombcar 23 minutes ago [-]
I’d like someone to do a deep dive in the data; I suspect that almost all of the fatalities involve some variation of “not following the laws” simply because nobody does.

We need crosswalks enforced by spikes that pop up from the ground or something similarly draconian to get people to wake up.

The US mostly (but not completely) solved the school bus problem (people passing a bus dropping off children) by having exceptionally hard penalties and enforcing them significantly for the first few months.

A similar nation-wide campaign is needed around auto safety.

potato3732842 12 minutes ago [-]
>The US mostly (but not completely) solved the school bus problem (people passing a bus dropping off children) by having exceptionally hard penalties and enforcing them significantly for the first few months.

They also changed bus routing best practice to alter the sorts of stops that were causing the bulk of the passing. Like for example right side stops on roads divided by any sort of median are avoided where possible these days.

sumtechguy 25 minutes ago [-]
Then to add to that I see every single day people walking doing silly things and walking into the roads where they should not be. One dude I saw just a few days ago was crossing an interstate (see that about 2-3 times a month in the same place). I see jwalking pretty much every day. I see people walking when the signal says to stay put. I see people darting out from between parked cars. I see this every day. Sure they have priority. But a car doing 55 does not care. Keep your head on a swivel. I make sure I cross at the places designated to do so and also make sure there are no cars coming at that moment because some fool decided that was the perfect time to play with their phone.
ceejayoz 19 minutes ago [-]
But most of these issues are highlighting road/driver issues, not pedestrian ones.

People jaywalk because the lights are timed more for the convenience of the drivers. People dart out between parked cars because the nearest crosswalk is a long way away. People cross the interstate because otherwise their 5 minute walk becomes an hour. Drivers shouldn't be going 55 in spots where someone can be obscured by a row of parked cars. etc.

pixl97 19 minutes ago [-]
A lot of this is parked cars right beside a 55mph highway. Or stretches of stroad that are a mile long with no pedestrian crossings. In the US we love to zone that 'business over here' and 'residentials over there' which means you have to cross high traffic areas to do anything. And if you're without car you're rightly screwed.
Toorkit 33 minutes ago [-]
Not just the US, my village in Germany has a limit of 30 kph, people drive through with 60.
pmontra 8 minutes ago [-]
Not Germany here but I witnessed buses of the bus company of my former city driving at 50 or more in a 30 km/h area. Some of those areas have a 30 limit because of a good reason, some probably only to add up kilometers and make the city council look good.
physicsguy 13 minutes ago [-]
We're 30mph through my village but because it is a 'cut through' the local government deem it to be important and the speed cannot be reduced. Even though we had two cars go round a sharp bend into a tree within a month of each other, in dry conditions.
pixl97 18 minutes ago [-]
Have the village start adding some wicked speed bumps.
cedilla 8 minutes ago [-]
Speed bumps work but putting big flower pots in the way is even better. It forces people to slow down without giving them the feeling that they get slowed down for no reason.

We humans are so easy to trick.

rafaeltorres 3 minutes ago [-]
Wonder if it may have something to do with longer commute times, which is not discussed in the article, i.e. a trip that used to take n minutes a few years ago may now take double due to congestion, leading to more impatient drivers. At least in my city (Miami) all people talk about is how untenable the commute times have become.
thecopy 51 seconds ago [-]
At its core it comes from the infrastructure paying zero respect to non-drivers.
braza 17 minutes ago [-]
As an enthusiast of traffic engineering, the most surprising thing in US is how hard is for the engineers to handle so distinct zoning laws according to it's county/city/state, and urbanistic planning in several big/medium cities is more centered on _giving preference to the cars_ instead of _keep the cadency and flow of the cars_.

Not saying it's good or bad, but for instance, in some counties it's way simpler to have a parking lot without any traffic buffer area at the entrance than to get an approval for a roundabout to reduce electronic traffic coordination in feeder roads.

Even simple things like pedestrian passages that do not have any contact with the road (elevated passages or underground passages) are very hard to find in the US.

I really would like to know one day what kind of design philosophy the traffic engineering field follows with so much compromises.

herval 5 minutes ago [-]
ever-bigger cars, tiny sidewalks, wide roads that take a minute to cross, the legality of turning left/right on a red light, few bike paths, mostly merged with fast highway lanes?

I don't know, feels like a recipe for roadkill

joduplessis 11 minutes ago [-]
From the many years of running in a very poorly traffic-controlled country, you learn to look at cars and also to look if drivers notice you.

It was actually uncomfortable watching people not look, but cars always stopping when I lived in Germany.

uniqueuid 32 minutes ago [-]
An interesting read.

This kind of problem is exactly what statistics is designed to do, and it makes me a bit sad that we are left with a bit of a shoulder shrug. It's absolutely possible to do a much better job at disentangling possible causes here with something as simple as a multilevel regression. (Although ok, proper causal inference would be more work).

Frieren 19 minutes ago [-]
Road and street design is the main difference with Europe. A lot of work has been put to make streets safer for everybody.

That fact alone acts as a multiplier for everything else. The cars are bigger in the USA? The bad streets make it way worse. People are distracted at the phone? The bad street design makes it more deathly.

Fix USA's streets and towns and all kinds of deaths will be decreased. It is the most important factor.

pluc 17 minutes ago [-]
This blows my mind considering most North American streets were designed for cars, whereas the same cannot be said for Europe. Maybe it's the reason: streets can be so narrow and winding in Europe that you have to pay attention?
lksaar 4 minutes ago [-]
Yea, I read an article on here a few years ago (which I can't seem to find anymore), that a lot more cars in the US crash into buildings compared to the EU and the main takeaway point was that it is probably because of the long and straight roads in the US, since you go faster and aren't as focused.
thunderfork 13 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
shusaku 28 minutes ago [-]
> We also can’t rule out that increased recklessness or distractedness on the part of pedestrians is playing a role.

Or a raw increase in pedestrians on urban roads? Maybe people are more willing to go on a walk at night in the city these days?

everdrive 27 minutes ago [-]
Anecdotal, but I've been in some cities where pedestrians don't even look, they just walk right into the road. Yes, I would be at fault if I hit them (in many cases) but I'm also not perfect, and also don't expect them to charge right in front of me.)
pretzellogician 22 minutes ago [-]
Living in Boston 30-something years ago, I found this was required as a pedestrian, because drivers would try to intimidate you from entering a crosswalk by accelerating at you. So... you had to explicitly look away and still be aware of their presence.

(Not just Boston, I've seen this in some other cities since.)

throwaway173738 18 minutes ago [-]
This is how it works everywhere I’ve been.
piva00 16 minutes ago [-]
One of the reasons to force slower speeds in city streets, more time for reacting to adverse events, less damage in case you hit a pedestrian at 30km/h than 60km/h.
dukoid 3 minutes ago [-]
They are killed by drivers.
heresie-dabord 21 minutes ago [-]
Since 1930, 30K or more people have been killed every year in car accidents in the US.

That's over 3_000_000 people in the past 100 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

(corrected, thanks!)

ReptileMan 18 minutes ago [-]
30000*100 != 30 000 000

are you sure you haven't thrown a zero somewhere when multiplying.

36Ndm 31 minutes ago [-]
Also if you look at they way the cars are designed in the US compared to Europe, the hoods of the cars are much higher, and not designed to prevent injury in the event of a car -> pedestraion incident
sethammons 6 minutes ago [-]
In the article, it talks about the big suv hypothesis and also points out that pedestrian deaths are up for sedans too.

Are US sedans hood designs different than in Europe?

strickjb9 26 minutes ago [-]
Great analysis - though I can't help but notice that 2009 is right when smartphones really took off (iPhone in 2007, Android in 2008, then mass adoption). The data showing accidents getting more deadly rather than more frequent actually makes sense if you combine two factors: phones causing more distracted driving incidents, plus our bigger American vehicles turning what would be injuries elsewhere into deaths. That could explain why it's US-specific - other countries probably have the same phone distraction problem, but their smaller cars mean less fatal outcomes. The distraction data might be weak simply because people don't admit they were on their phone after killing someone, but sometimes the obvious answer deserves more weight than we give it.
throwaway173738 19 minutes ago [-]
You do see the “not reported “ category trend up significantly on the graph which suggests you may be right. I might report that I wasn’t distracted, but I would not report if I was distracted because I might end up in jail.
petermcneeley 9 minutes ago [-]
Does this count suicides? Does this count fault?
alterom 25 minutes ago [-]
One obvious direction not explored in the article: looking not just at the type on the vehicle involved in the deadly collision, but also the actual model and its geometry.

It's not just that SUVs are deadlier than sedans.

It's also that the sedans are becoming taller, wider, heavier — and deadlier.

The article says that blunt fronts are what makes a collision more likely to result in a death. Well compare a 2000 Camry to a 2025 one then on that metric.

To test this hypothesis, we need to look at all accidents where a pedestrian was hit — and see a breakdown on whether it resulted in a fatality, by vehicle and road type.

Another thing the article doesn't consider is that the speed limits have increased across the US, and where they haven't, the enforcement is not necessarily there (cough Bay Area cough).

Solutions like lane diet (or engineering cities for anything other than automobiles) never became popular.

The outcome is inevitable.

_____

TL;DR: bigger, fatter cars going faster kill more people.

throwaway173738 17 minutes ago [-]
This is another important point. A pillars are two or three times the size. That’s twice the amount of metal in your field of view where you would be looking for a pedestrian.
contrarian1234 31 minutes ago [-]
They forgot to check if it correlates with shark attacks

They checked so many things I'm surprised it didn't match something just by accident (it's still a fun exercise :)) mostly just teasing)

furyg3 29 minutes ago [-]
At first I thought maybe the number of pedestrian journeys have gone up, but that appears to be declining (leading to even more concern as to why deaths have gone up).
codeduck 24 minutes ago [-]
Because (darkly) there's one fewer pedestrians time one of them gets killed?

Sorry, I'll show myself out.

alterom 10 minutes ago [-]
There's many more pedestrians who start to think twice about walking anywhere after someone they know is hit by a vehicle.
barrenko 29 minutes ago [-]
Pedestrians are quite squishy.
astonex 18 minutes ago [-]
Anecdotally, on my few visits to the US (NY and Colorado), the driving I saw was absolutely atrocious compared to Europe. People were swerving and failing to stay in their lanes on Interstates, everyone was speeding well above the limit (everyone speeds on Motorways, but it seems it's taken to another level in the US). Then you have turn right on red meaning drivers just don't care and turn regardless. Then you have everyone driving massive fucking trucks where you can't see anything from inside.

It seemed every morning I got up and turned on the hotel TV, there was another news about some crash on the Interstate that morning

tomasphan 5 minutes ago [-]
Totally agree. When someone in my family got their license in the US they had to drive around a parking lot, parallel park and pull into a normal parking lot. That’s it. This was during COVID so the tester wasn’t allowed inside the car. It absolutely reflects in the quality of drivers today.

I often drive in Europe for business and cry a little on the inside when I’m back on New York streets.

globular-toast 16 minutes ago [-]
I wish they wouldn't just focus on deaths. The difference between being killed and having your body wrecked is pretty small. I'm curious to know what the numbers look like if we considered some less extreme interpretation of taking someone's life.
27 minutes ago [-]
anarticle 1 minutes ago [-]
American drivers are terrible and rules are barely enforced. License is cheap/free/no training so that's what we get.

With people on their phones, roads will have to become obstacle courses with speed bumps and undulating curve to force people to pay attention.

Philadelphia's solution to speeding has been speed bumps. Sounds great until you realize there are no specs for this, and some of them are so high that nearly every 10th car going over now makes an extremely loud scraping sound. Now imagine living in front of that!

I ride a motorcycle most times and I am always at very high attention when riding. I see people scrolling TikTok not only at lights, but flying through town. I see they didn't find a cause there, but it seems so prevalent and dangerous that it has to have caused an uptick in accidents as well as deaths. That data feels very fishy for it to be so different between regions (there is not a culture in different areas for phone use).

I also wonder if there are a few confounders, covid, number of cars on road, safety of cars, and local code rules on what constitutes a registered vehicle (this is more variable than you think). In some places, if it rolls, you can register it. NJ has mandatory 2y state inspection.

At least we have Roosevelt Boulevard, the most dangerous roadway in the entire US! We're #1! (It is literally called: The Corridor of DEATH) https://whyy.org/articles/philly-roosevelt-blvd-rising-traff... I think it goes up to 12 lanes wide at some point WITH a pedestrian crossing.

thefz 1 minutes ago [-]
Because cars there are fucking landships with a radiator so tall it will likely hit any vital organ between the neck and the pelvis.
hackingonempty 33 minutes ago [-]
It is literally 20 times as many people killed every year as are killed in mass shootings but you can't get anyone to care at all about it. Blame the victim, did you see what they were wearing?
rjbwork 30 minutes ago [-]
Even moreso than guns, the automobile industry has been waging an incredibly successful propaganda campaign for over a century now equating the ownership and use of a personal automobile with freedom.
snapcaster 26 minutes ago [-]
This is true, people having a complete meltdown to the idea of walkable cities was very telling
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 22 minutes ago [-]
Have you tried to move around US w/o it? As propaganda goes, it is pretty spot on.
baggachipz 8 minutes ago [-]
Only because the car companies made it that way through lobbying and stifling mass transit efforts.
rglullis 16 minutes ago [-]
What is cause and what is effect, and which of those do people can control?
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 11 minutes ago [-]
Eh, I guess I am talking to militant anti-SUV people.

Allow me to rephrase:

- Your environment imposes restrictions upon you - Even if you can control your actions, optimal choice is to move within those restrictions - Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal - Some people choose the optimal path - Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen

Good grief, why am I bothering with nonsense so early?

throw_m239339 23 minutes ago [-]
tomasphan 14 minutes ago [-]
We care about control. Mass shootings are random and scary and totally out of victim’s control. People say “that car crash wouldn’t have happened to me I’m a better driver and I pay attention”. Which is true to some degree. Same reason why flying is scary because you can’t even see what’s coming.
snapcaster 27 minutes ago [-]
My theory is its because what we respond to is _not_ number of deaths but instead "number of deaths in excess of what we've priced in". In the standard american mental model we assume there are going to be lots of road deaths so nobody really responds to it
jonathanknight 26 minutes ago [-]
Wow - I think the problem there is that it is ONLY 20 times the number killed in mass shootings.
cindyllm 31 minutes ago [-]
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fennecfoxy 19 minutes ago [-]
Culture.
paulcole 29 minutes ago [-]
The answer is so simple.

We really really really really like our cars/trucks/SUVs in the US and have agreed that about 30,000 to 40,000 people a year will die so that we can keep driving the way we do.

It’s the price we pay for the way we choose to live.

alterom 7 minutes ago [-]
I like how your comment is downvoted even though this hypothesis is directly supported by the data from the article.

Fat cars getting fatter, pedestrian-hostile streets becoming faster, city infrastructure requiring people to drive everywhere.

Hmmmm, what could be the reason.

octo888 24 minutes ago [-]
I'd love more of this kind of frank discourse because I'm tired of decades of political pearl clutching "even just one death is a tragedy"
micromacrofoot 20 minutes ago [-]
in other countries at an intersection with a stoplight... is it normal for the light to turn green (allowing for a right turn) while a crosswalk also simultaneously activates to cross that path?

this always feels strange to me in some US cities... why would you give a car a green light to turn into an active crosswalk? I've been honked at by drivers like I'm doing something wrong while having a cross signal

emorning4 8 minutes ago [-]
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throwaway984393 3 minutes ago [-]
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33a 27 minutes ago [-]
Pedestrians on phones, not drivers on phones.
everdrive 30 minutes ago [-]
There are a multitude of issues:

  - poor visibility in modern cars due to rollover protection

  - touch screens and touch controls in cars

  - general proliferation of controls in cars

  - smart phones & smart phone addictions

  - higher vehicle belt lines are better for vehicle --> vehicle impacts but worse for vehicle --> pedestrian impacts

  - poor pedestrian infrastructure, sidewalks, crosswalks, etc.
pmontra 4 minutes ago [-]
But why only in the USA? Cars and phones are the same in all the countries listed in the OP and it's not SUVs vs sedans. So are we left with your last point, different infrastructure?
strickjb9 22 minutes ago [-]
I hung onto a Blackberry way longer than I should have simply because I wanted physical keys. I'm trying to hang onto cars with physical controls as well. It seems like automakers are finally get the hint that people want physical controls again.
octo888 26 minutes ago [-]
How have touchscreens had such a free pass compared to mobile phones?!

Just kidding I know the answer is lobbying

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