Apple told the European Commission it would roll out the new terms in January 2026. This letter is saying that the uncertainty leading up to January 2026 is causing damage and not in concordance with the European Commission finding in August 2025. Do I understand that right?
Did the European Commission agree to the January 2026 deadline or not? Have they been working internally behind the scenes with Apple or are they as in the dark as these developers? What is the legal mechanism to push disclosure a month earlier and why is the letter only being published now?
These are sincere questions of mine, in case it's not clear.
Y-bar 1 hours ago [-]
The commission might have agreed with the timeline. It is unclear. But on the other hand this is not just about the relationship between Apple and the EC. Their understanding might actually have meant that the damage to users and other developers remained as is claimed here so the commission now has to listen to the injured party and adjust their posture.
Think of it this way: I am blocking part of your driveway for some reasons, and after a while me and the city inspector agree that I will remedy the situation next year. Would you accept that, or would you tell the inspector that your driveway is still not useable and that I should be quicker?
giancarlostoro 29 minutes ago [-]
I'll go a step farther. iOS is the only mobile OS that restricts PWA's and I think they do it on purpose to force you out of PWAs and into native apps. I think Apple should 100% support PWAs with no shenanigans, they should work 100% without Apple needing to approve of anything too.
Steve Jobs pitched PWAs way back when, I don't know why all we've gotten is a half-baked solution from Apple other than they want you in their App Store with a native app.
LocalH 28 minutes ago [-]
They figured out that the App Store made them more money than PWAs do, that's why
troupo 15 minutes ago [-]
> I think Apple should 100% support PWAs with no shenanigans
Where "support PWA" and "no shenanigans" are which of the ever shifting sets of APIs?
utopiah 2 hours ago [-]
If I had to develop commercial applications expecting interoperability from the 2nd largest mobile operating system I would be very pissed.
As a consumer with the resources to leave, the choice is simple.
Y-bar 1 hours ago [-]
I disagree that the choice is simple.
In reality there are only two mobile operating systems where there is any hardware to purchase in my town. These two operating systems are the only mobile devices where my bank (and as far as I am aware other competing banks in my area) offer banking on.
There are many variables that goes into the purchase of a mobile phone, the App Store is only one of many. Google is marginally better at allowing side-loading or alternative stores, there is a degree of flexibility in hardware choices and so on. But on the other hand I trust Apple more (absolutely not fully, mind you) with regards to general privacy for example. This privacy protection in conjunction with significantly better movie recording compared to Android are the two primary reasons I stay on iOS.
But at the same time, I am highly critical of Apple’s conduct here. And because it is effectively impossible to vote with my wallet I am voting with my vote so that politicians enact policies that allow me to use my devices the way I want.
fsflover 1 hours ago [-]
Alternatively, GNU/Linux phones can be used. But not all banks support them, of course.
Silhouette 53 minutes ago [-]
Not all banks, government services, travel and ticketing systems, and the list goes on.
The unfortunate reality is that we have a duopoly in the mobile device market and having one of those devices are now a practical necessity to live a normal life for most people. Without regulation to force the market to open up there's little to stop organisations that want ever more control over the devices you can use to access their systems. Trying to go outside the two big players just means you're going to get a substandard or completely pointless experience. And even governments are in on it.
Which is going to be interesting when both the huge US corporations that form that duopoly and/or the government of their home nation decide to do something that goes against what the government or laws in other places want to happen.
fsflover 45 minutes ago [-]
You're not wrong, but I'm trying to raise the issue with any service forcing me into the duopoly by showing them my Librem 5. Sometimes it's quite entertaining. This is another venue for making the change.
raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago [-]
Funny enough because of the judge’s ruling, anyone can link outside of the App Store in the US to accept payments without paying Apple anything.
candiddevmike 2 hours ago [-]
What recourse do you have if the app store review process finds "issues" with your app that are "obviously unrelated" to your payment setup but seemingly can't be resolved after multiple review iterations?
It seems like the app store review process is designed to be opaque enough to ensure Apple gets their way in their sandbox, regardless of judicial ruling. In my experience, the review process is wildly inconsistent.
raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago [-]
I know Netflix, Amazon’s Kindle app and DuoLingo have outside links.
Apple and Amazon made a deal years ago where you can buy digital videos within Amazon Prime Video using your Amazon account.
But let’s be real, the only apps making money directly from in app purchases are pay to win games. It came out in Apple vs Epic that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games.
The other companies making money are mostly selling subscriptions to SaaS apps/services that you can use one subscription anywhere and have always been paying outside of the App Store.
troupo 14 minutes ago [-]
> that you can use one subscription anywhere and have always been paying outside of the App Store.
Why can't those services show a link in their app to their page without Apple claiming it's owed 27% of the sale?
raw_anon_1111 7 minutes ago [-]
In the US you can because of the judgement against Apple. When you link outside of the store, Apple gets nothing.
Even in the store, Apple charges 15% if your revenue is below $1 million and charges 15% for renewals after the first year.
ZeroConcerns 1 hours ago [-]
Well, if Apple were really clever, they'd have introduced an 'EU DMA CAPTCHA' by now, requiring anyone EU-adjacent-resident to mark all the evil EU bureaucrats in a picture of room before allowing them to resume their doomscrolling.
I mean, it absolutely worked for effectively sinking the GDPR, where pretty much everyone now equates that law with obnoxious 'cookie banners', to the point that these regulations are being relaxed, despite never requiring these banners in any way, shape or form in the first place.
But, yeah, despite that, I'd say they'll get away with this as well...
buzer 1 hours ago [-]
> I mean, it absolutely worked for effectively sinking the DMCA, where pretty much everyone now equites that law with obnoxious 'cookie banners', to the point that these regulations are being relaxed.
I don't think DMCA has anything to do with that though I did wish everyone hated it. You probably meant GDPR.
No, it's now entirely accurate. Nothing in the GDPR requires 'cookie banners', and your Wikipedia link doesn't 'dispell' that 'misconception', but nice try...
troupo 31 minutes ago [-]
ePrivacy Directive doesn't require those obnoxious banners either
mindcrash 60 minutes ago [-]
All the while Android users - or at least those on the Samsung Galaxy sub-ecosystem - are happily downloading free, as in open source, software from alternative sources like F-Droid (https://f-droid.org/), Obtainium (https://obtainium.imranr.dev/), Accrescent (https://accrescent.app/), and even can access the main app store through a more privacy friendly way using Aurora (https://auroraoss.com/) - although with the latter you will probably break a license agreement you never read anyway, so fuck that.
That, and:
* Customization is better -- Apple has nothing like Good Lock, which is developed AND officially supported by Samsung,
* AI is better -- And Samsung even gives the choice to run AI features completely locally on your phone -or- in the cloud,
* Features for power users are all around better -- As a example did you know Google built a freaking virtualization service which allows you to run a full Linux operating system, with an complete KDE Plasma or GNOME UI on top of Android? Well, now you do. Super fun feature to have on a phone. Even more super fun feature to have on a tablet.
And then there's DeX -- at least on the Galaxies, as long as Google is working on the built in desktop features for the next Android release.
And for those times you quickly want or need a Linux shell you can launch Termux (https://termux.dev/en/).
Most notably and importantly: for all these things you don't have to root or jailbreak ANYTHING... They work completely out of the box -- Although you can get a scary sounding warning when downloading stuff from outside the Play store, but if you really understand and can deal with the consequences this can be easily solved using a toggle button.
How Apple keeps managing to drive themselves and their developer ecosystem completely in the ground still is completely baffling to me. And that comes from someone who really used to love Apple, back in the Jobs era (Got the first iPod, iPhone, iPad, and first Intel MacBook Pro to prove it).
PS: Because lots of people got super pissed about Google abandoning sideloading on Android they walked back on their initial decisions and it will keep working for the foreseeable future
wackget 44 minutes ago [-]
You forgot to mention Google's upcoming developer verification push, which will prevent users installing apps - even from third-party sources - if the developers have not verified their identity with Google:
They already announced side loading will continue to work, while making it slightly more difficult for average users to install suspicious crap on their phone or tablet. I can live with that:
Also, how sideloading works seemingly varies from vendor to vendor. On my Samsung devices I never had to fiddle with ADB or developer mode to install a APK from outside the Play store, I just download something, toggle crapware protection off, install, toggle crapware protection on and I'm done. Think it might has something to with all the customization work Samsung put into One UI (and just outright removing stuff from Google they didn't like).
schubidubiduba 35 minutes ago [-]
Google has already backpedaled on that, luckily.
But you are right, insofar that it likely is only a matter of time until Google's walled garden is as walled in as the one of Apple.
> Apple has said it will roll out new App Store terms in January 2026, but developers say the company has provided no clarity on what those changes will involve or whether they will actually comply with the DMA.
> "We have seen this playbook before in Europe and beyond," the signatories warn, adding that they suspect any new terms will continue to impose fees that would violate the law.
So the complaint is that they might violate the law next month?
cwillu 2 hours ago [-]
The complaint is that they're violating the law right now.
bigyabai 2 hours ago [-]
No, the complaint is the established pattern of neglect.
charcircuit 52 minutes ago [-]
Give people an inch and they will want a mile. I hope Apple resists these bullies who feel entitled to use all the hardwork Apple put into building their platform.
schubidubiduba 32 minutes ago [-]
You got it the wrong way around: Apple feels entitled to use all the hard work developers put into their apps to bolster their own pockets.
bitpush 12 minutes ago [-]
Please, someone think of the trillor dollar company.
LocalH 16 minutes ago [-]
Their platform, that runs on devices they don't own?
troupo 30 minutes ago [-]
You've mixed up your bullies.
It's Apple which is the bully.
saubeidl 30 minutes ago [-]
The bully here is Apple. They try to use their market power to put themselves above our law, but they shall not get away with it.
troupo 29 minutes ago [-]
Not just above law, but above common sense as well
Rendered at 18:54:54 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Did the European Commission agree to the January 2026 deadline or not? Have they been working internally behind the scenes with Apple or are they as in the dark as these developers? What is the legal mechanism to push disclosure a month earlier and why is the letter only being published now?
These are sincere questions of mine, in case it's not clear.
Think of it this way: I am blocking part of your driveway for some reasons, and after a while me and the city inspector agree that I will remedy the situation next year. Would you accept that, or would you tell the inspector that your driveway is still not useable and that I should be quicker?
Steve Jobs pitched PWAs way back when, I don't know why all we've gotten is a half-baked solution from Apple other than they want you in their App Store with a native app.
Where "support PWA" and "no shenanigans" are which of the ever shifting sets of APIs?
As a consumer with the resources to leave, the choice is simple.
In reality there are only two mobile operating systems where there is any hardware to purchase in my town. These two operating systems are the only mobile devices where my bank (and as far as I am aware other competing banks in my area) offer banking on.
There are many variables that goes into the purchase of a mobile phone, the App Store is only one of many. Google is marginally better at allowing side-loading or alternative stores, there is a degree of flexibility in hardware choices and so on. But on the other hand I trust Apple more (absolutely not fully, mind you) with regards to general privacy for example. This privacy protection in conjunction with significantly better movie recording compared to Android are the two primary reasons I stay on iOS.
But at the same time, I am highly critical of Apple’s conduct here. And because it is effectively impossible to vote with my wallet I am voting with my vote so that politicians enact policies that allow me to use my devices the way I want.
The unfortunate reality is that we have a duopoly in the mobile device market and having one of those devices are now a practical necessity to live a normal life for most people. Without regulation to force the market to open up there's little to stop organisations that want ever more control over the devices you can use to access their systems. Trying to go outside the two big players just means you're going to get a substandard or completely pointless experience. And even governments are in on it.
Which is going to be interesting when both the huge US corporations that form that duopoly and/or the government of their home nation decide to do something that goes against what the government or laws in other places want to happen.
It seems like the app store review process is designed to be opaque enough to ensure Apple gets their way in their sandbox, regardless of judicial ruling. In my experience, the review process is wildly inconsistent.
Apple and Amazon made a deal years ago where you can buy digital videos within Amazon Prime Video using your Amazon account.
But let’s be real, the only apps making money directly from in app purchases are pay to win games. It came out in Apple vs Epic that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games.
The other companies making money are mostly selling subscriptions to SaaS apps/services that you can use one subscription anywhere and have always been paying outside of the App Store.
Why can't those services show a link in their app to their page without Apple claiming it's owed 27% of the sale?
Even in the store, Apple charges 15% if your revenue is below $1 million and charges 15% for renewals after the first year.
I mean, it absolutely worked for effectively sinking the GDPR, where pretty much everyone now equates that law with obnoxious 'cookie banners', to the point that these regulations are being relaxed, despite never requiring these banners in any way, shape or form in the first place.
But, yeah, despite that, I'd say they'll get away with this as well...
I don't think DMCA has anything to do with that though I did wish everyone hated it. You probably meant GDPR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPrivacy_Directive
That, and:
* Customization is better -- Apple has nothing like Good Lock, which is developed AND officially supported by Samsung,
* AI is better -- And Samsung even gives the choice to run AI features completely locally on your phone -or- in the cloud,
* Features for power users are all around better -- As a example did you know Google built a freaking virtualization service which allows you to run a full Linux operating system, with an complete KDE Plasma or GNOME UI on top of Android? Well, now you do. Super fun feature to have on a phone. Even more super fun feature to have on a tablet.
And then there's DeX -- at least on the Galaxies, as long as Google is working on the built in desktop features for the next Android release.
And for those times you quickly want or need a Linux shell you can launch Termux (https://termux.dev/en/).
Most notably and importantly: for all these things you don't have to root or jailbreak ANYTHING... They work completely out of the box -- Although you can get a scary sounding warning when downloading stuff from outside the Play store, but if you really understand and can deal with the consequences this can be easily solved using a toggle button.
How Apple keeps managing to drive themselves and their developer ecosystem completely in the ground still is completely baffling to me. And that comes from someone who really used to love Apple, back in the Jobs era (Got the first iPod, iPhone, iPad, and first Intel MacBook Pro to prove it).
PS: Because lots of people got super pissed about Google abandoning sideloading on Android they walked back on their initial decisions and it will keep working for the foreseeable future
https://developer.android.com/developer-verification
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-power-users-install...
Also, how sideloading works seemingly varies from vendor to vendor. On my Samsung devices I never had to fiddle with ADB or developer mode to install a APK from outside the Play store, I just download something, toggle crapware protection off, install, toggle crapware protection on and I'm done. Think it might has something to with all the customization work Samsung put into One UI (and just outright removing stuff from Google they didn't like).
But you are right, insofar that it likely is only a matter of time until Google's walled garden is as walled in as the one of Apple.
> "We have seen this playbook before in Europe and beyond," the signatories warn, adding that they suspect any new terms will continue to impose fees that would violate the law.
So the complaint is that they might violate the law next month?
It's Apple which is the bully.