I own a FTTH connection to Telekom since 2018, as the only provider in my street, allowed to install an internet connection (only glass fiber).
Since then, I have always used my own device and I maintain a GitHub Snippet in how to connect OpenWRT modem (and by extension, any other modem that supports pppoe), rather than their Huawei SpeedPort crap or the more expensive Fritz Box). Link to Gist : https://gist.github.com/madduci/8b8637b922e433d617261373220b...
I use PiHole in my own network, circumnavigating the DNS limitations, using Quad9 as my main DNS provider, but Unbound is on my to-do list.
The most concerning limitation in the German market is the unavailability of native Glass Fiber modems, that can accept as input a Glass Fiber connection: at the moment, providers install their own Glass Fiber modem. Without it, you can't actually have an internet connection at home
retired 13 minutes ago [-]
Is it possible to use a media converter from glass fiber to RJ45/Ethernet? Those are commonly available and then you can use whatever modem/router you like.
nandomrumber 2 minutes ago [-]
You’d need to be able to replicate whatever configuration the ISP provided device has, and they won’t give you that.
FTTH here in Australia is the same, you’re stuck using the network providers device with your LAN device connected behind it.
There was fierce lobbying back in the day for our national broadband network to be simple dark fibre and that ISPs could build on top of that to provide innovation and differentiation.
Instead what we got was a bunch of ISPs that resell the National Broadband Network’s expensive wholesale plans with little in the way of either differentiation or innovation.
Namidairo 2 minutes ago [-]
If I recall, for something like GPON or XGS-PON, you end up having to clone the various attributes of the original for it to work properly. This typically includes serial number, hardware id, firmware identifiers, etc.
progbits 3 minutes ago [-]
They most likely use GPON so the optic is going to see return traffic for your neighbors. So they make it hard (but not impossible) to bring your own optic or media converter.
fc417fc802 9 minutes ago [-]
> providers install their own Glass Fiber modem
It's the same in the US. The ISP fiber network falls inside their security boundary in my experience - you can't BYOD. They install a modem (these days often including an integrated router, switch, and AP) and you receive either ethernet or wifi from them.
I think the only major change in that regard has been that coaxial cable providers here will often let you bring your own docsis modem these days.
I never found any of this concerning until quite recently. With the advent of ISPs providing public wifi service out of consumer endpoints as well as wifi based radar I'm no longer comfortable having vendor controlled wireless equipment in my home.
Semaphor 2 minutes ago [-]
I don’t have fiber access, but at least for cable, my provider (formerly Kabel Deutschland, now Vodafone) allows me to put the modem/router into "modem only" mode, which then allows me to use my own router. Outside of Fritzbox (which is again a whole integrated thing; with questionable features) there aren’t many DOCSIS modems freely available, and the no-name china devices don’t seem much better than my Vodafone Box.
ccozan 49 minutes ago [-]
Telekom is well known for the crappy service - but they have a de facto monopoly. For example, when it rains, the line goes down where I live.
Solution: I got my Starlink. 3x speed. No crappy service. Weather independent. And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .
[ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]
shevy-java 29 minutes ago [-]
> And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .
> [ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]
Right - but then you also depend on an US service here. And the USA changed policy where Europeans became enemies ("we won't give you arms to defend against Russian invaders! Greenland will be occupied by our military soon!").
It's a bad situation, lose-lose here. I don't think the price difference is the primary problem though; the behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.
throwaway140126 2 minutes ago [-]
Well, you have a point but on the other side since about 20 years the Telekom does not even think about improving the internet connection in the place I live. At some point you're just fed up. To me it seems like they just do not care about providing a good service and even if they do now I would be more willing to give someone else money than the enterprise that did not care about the quality until it loses customer as a good alternative entered the market (Starlink).
fc417fc802 4 minutes ago [-]
The best solution here would probably be the EU launching its own internet constellation. China and the US both have them. How is this any different than the issues surrounding GPS?
em-bee 20 minutes ago [-]
are all starlink connections routed through the US?
don't they do local downlinks? at least for countries they have an agreement with or where the infrastructure is available?
lucianbr 12 minutes ago [-]
What does it matter where they are routed through? You think your Starlink service in Germany is beyond the control of Musk or the US government?
direwolf20 6 minutes ago [-]
I think Musk cares about revenue more than pissing off some random customer in Germany. As long as you don't stand out from the crowd, he'd rather have your $40. Use a VPN to be sure.
formerly_proven 9 minutes ago [-]
Who owns and controls starlink? A local downlink dish or a US defense contractor?
kybernetyk 34 minutes ago [-]
I'm glad Vodafone is available where I live. They're not better but at least they're an alternative. Also Telekom manages only to deliver 250mbit/s while Vodafone gets 1gbit/s.
Last apartment I rented Telekom was the only option and that was one of the reasons why I decided to move.
Starlink I would love to try but as there's building and trees blocking the horizon it's not an option here sadly.
preya2k 3 minutes ago [-]
Not an alternative anymore. Vodafone started doing the same shit with their peering at the end of last year.
direwolf20 5 minutes ago [-]
Vodafone seems also terrible, but maybe better than DT?
attendant3446 23 minutes ago [-]
My experience was slightly different. I mean, yes, there pretty much no 'non crappy' German internet providers, but nothing was as bad as Vodafone.
cyberpunk 20 minutes ago [-]
Telefonica enters the chat.w
Blemiono 6 minutes ago [-]
You don't like him why? Because he manipulated the democracy if countries like the USA and Germany?
But whatever it seems to be but it doesn't seem to really bother you that he makes money thanks to you.
Good that having better Internet is more important than musk and whatever you don't like about him.
Just a reminder his 10.000 satellites destroying astronomy research is only used by 9 million people right now.
And apparently often enough by people who actually have Internet and prefer better Internet despite criticism this Nazi saluting in human drugy.
avra 26 minutes ago [-]
How can a satellite connection be more weather independent than a landline? Not questioning your statement. Just wondering what could be the reason. A segment with a long distance directional antenna?
Doohickey-d 15 minutes ago [-]
With ADSL: broken waterproofing somewhere along the line, water gets into the cables or connections == broken while it's raining.
Then you call their customer support, tech comes out, it's not raining anymore and everything works, and the problem doesn't get fixed.
trinix912 34 minutes ago [-]
Except that with Telekom they answer to the German courts which might eventually force them to stop doing this but with Starlink you're at the mercy of some dudes halfway across the globe. If/when Starlink reaches the enshittification phase, there will be very little in the way.
blauditore 30 minutes ago [-]
The bright side of this is that there is at least some sort of competition, since they operate on very different infrastucture. This is the free market premise on how quality and price should improve. Reality is often different though, because most customers are not really comparing and/or voting with their feet.
kybernetyk 27 minutes ago [-]
Meh, the threat vector to me as a resident of Germany is the German government - not some dude at the other end of the world. What is Musk going to do? Ban me from Twitter? Not sell me a Tesla?
That's nothing compared to what German authorities can do to me. Germany is a country where you get police searching your home for torrenting movies or making stupid jokes on Facebook. So yeah.
Also about enshittification - one could argue that our local ISPs never left that phase to begin with.
zelphirkalt 19 minutes ago [-]
He could just turn off Starlink in Germany.
And yes, German ISPs suck donkey ass.
heraldgeezer 35 minutes ago [-]
>For example, when it rains, the line goes down where I live.
Sounds like and access line issue with DSL (lol)
DSL is so old you can't even order it in Sweden anymore.
Also, the post above would be a core issue not access
blauditore 28 minutes ago [-]
Excuse me, I remember when DSL was the latest and greatest, it can't possibly be this old. :')
jillesvangurp 19 minutes ago [-]
That would be ~25 years ago. I remember getting my first ADSL connection around 2000 in the Netherlands when that stuff was still very new.
haunter 47 minutes ago [-]
Not sure it’s the same issue but in Hungary they (DT) refuse to use/pay Cloudflare so in peak hours every single site outside the country loads incredibly slow because of the constant re-routing. Everything has to go through Frankfurt even though CF would have alternate direct routes
At least they are cheap. 25€ a month for 2gbps/1gbps so I can’t complain about that
They also offer 4gbps/2gbps for 40€ but at this point I’m not even sure what to use that for (besides torrent seeding)
chpatrick 1 hours ago [-]
I know about this issue so it's great that something is being done about it, but the page really needs a text explainer instead of the just a video.
usr1106 13 minutes ago [-]
Reading a couple of pages of the full complaint, starting from page 15 is surprisingly accessible (assuming German is accessible at all to the reader).
They claim Telekom keeps their transit access points intentionally underdimensioned. In order to be reachable at decent speed by Telekom customers, internet services need a direct, paid contract with Telekom.
Edit: The section numbering is weird. Why does 2.2.0 come after 2.3? On my phone, don't have a good overview.
dewey 1 hours ago [-]
Isn't that exactly what is below the video in the "What is this about?" section?
chpatrick 52 minutes ago [-]
That's only a very vague description.
andreldm 10 minutes ago [-]
I have a contract with a smaller German ISP (Pyur), they do throttling too, uploading to Backblaze quickly gets capped to a few hundred bytes, sometimes the connection gets aborted. Using Mullvad or Tor gets around that. I considered switching to Telekom or Vodafone, gave up because they are even more expensive and now this.
dzogchen 40 minutes ago [-]
I unfortunetely have Deutsche Telekom as my ISP and I can confirm that in the evening websites that use Cloudflare have a latency of one minute or simply do not load at all.
I don’t understand why anyone that serves the German market would use Cloudflare. Regardless of who is at fault, you are losing a lot of customers that way.
kybernetyk 30 minutes ago [-]
>Regardless of who is at fault, you are losing a lot of customers that way.
Don't know. Germans are stingy. I'm German, I live in Germany yet I don't even localize my software to German anymore because German downloads wouldn't convert in any meaningful way. (Even when I had German localization).
It's just anecdotal of course but every other dev I talked to would confirm this unless they had some very germany-specific product.
stanac 29 minutes ago [-]
One minute latency? Sound like worse experience than dial-up.
RHab 40 minutes ago [-]
I just ended my contract with them. I could not reach my own raspberry pi Homepage which uses cloudflare. They called me and asked why I ended the contract, I told them about cloudflare, but that my cancellation is final, and magically my Homepage now works again!
sighansen 57 minutes ago [-]
The only ISP I have access to is Deutsche Telekom and I often have problems with websites loading slowly. A few more years before other ISPs can provide internet in my new development area. I can't understand, why they are allowed to have a monopoly in some areas.
xg15 22 minutes ago [-]
I like the subtle bit of trolling they did with the page color: DT had registered that shade of magenta as a trademark, made it a core part of their brand and generally was VERY vocal in public about "owning" that color. [1, 2]
Though more recently they seem to have lost that protection. [3]
So if that page now deliberately uses the "Telekom color" to call out their bad behavior, that's a statement on its own.
Why are you leading your visitors to your channel on a monopolist site? To bring ad revenue? There's no need for video for your type of content in the first place.
I get it - a 2026 "hackers" campaign for binging yt. And in case you haven't noticed: appealing to the net neutrality debate of last millenium is meaningless with just a bunch of monopolists left on the net profitting of vast public investments. The kind of thing traditionalist "hackers" in it for social recognition would be wasting their time on.
trinix912 30 minutes ago [-]
Because they're betting on the video finding its way onto people's feed, thus raising awareness among non-techy people. Hard to do that with a random website.
anthonj 54 minutes ago [-]
Germany always surprise me with continuous contradiction in their society.
Largest economy in eu but very unstable and riddled with wierd burocracy.
Strongest worker protection, but very large amount of lobbysm.
Most advanced railway system in eu, transformed into a joke by interdiction from said lobbies.
You have to pay a "radio tax" to help funding press and keep it independent, but then fuck net neutrality.
And I could continue with more point, but I don't want to get too political.
blkhawk 2 minutes ago [-]
Some of these contradictions are fractal - i.e. contradictions all the way down :)
For example the independent Radio and TV isn't that independent actually but in practice is. Partially this is because of the insecurities of the times these institutions were setup in making people in power unsure about true independence - so they wanted a control mechanism. The end result is an institution that is deeply coupled into the government but that has at the same time to pretend to be independent to such a degree most people inside it just act that way and its output is sorta neutral except in very slight tonal shift ways and in some individual cases. instances that are very German-culturally local? This is very hard to explain correctly but easy to just explain it wrongly - Let me do that now and translate it to American.
Imagine an institution being dependent and biased in exactly the opposite way that fox news is independent and balanced. Imagine a government-independent institution where you join a controlling organ and after sworn in you are invited to 2 after-meetings at the same time. One invitation comes in a red letter the other in a blue letter. Yet everybody has to be independent because that is what it is supposed to be. Germans can be very very stubborn about that.
retired 8 minutes ago [-]
Don’t forget the church tax and nearly everything in the country being closed on the day of the lord. Having to pop over the border to a less religious country to do your shopping becomes irksome after a while.
borlox 51 minutes ago [-]
Do you know similarly large, democratic societies without contradictions?
anthonj 42 minutes ago [-]
my impression is that other countries like Italy or France are much more consistent in what they are bad or good at.
But it's possible it's just my personal bias.
ekianjo 38 minutes ago [-]
> Most advanced railway system in eu
France is certainly better
direwolf20 2 minutes ago [-]
I believe Germany's is much more interconnected while France's mostly goes from Paris to other places. Mesh versus star topology.
dgxyz 47 minutes ago [-]
The one that always gets me is security and privacy paranoid and lecture me on the Stasi and using Apple phones and how they aren't repairable but then goes and uses unpatched rotten old Android they can't fix anyway and sticks fingers in ears. Nearly every German I know does this and I know a lot of Germans as half my family is German and my ex-partner is German.
integralid 35 minutes ago [-]
I'll bite (I'm not German but I'm close culturally):
* Old Androids are not repairable because they're shit, not because a megacorp works hard to make repair impossible
* Old Androids may be hacked by a pegasus-like software (just like most new smartphones anyway), but at least the operating system does not lock you into its own closed ecosystem.
You may disagree, and correctly, because it's in part irrational, but many Europeans just dislike Apple and consider Android a more open/free ecosystem.
heraldgeezer 33 minutes ago [-]
>unpatched rotten old Android
Based.
Fsk Apple. Soy aah
shevy-java 30 minutes ago [-]
The laws should be changed. Corporate overlords thinking they
can milk citizens should have mandatory jail times - something
reasonable like a full decade or so. That way their'll behaviour
would quickly change too and they'd have to stop those "we can
slow them down and they can not do anything about it" shenanigans.
usr1106 40 minutes ago [-]
237 pages, wow...
heraldgeezer 38 minutes ago [-]
??? Yes its called peering agreements
direwolf20 35 minutes ago [-]
DT famously does not use them. They prefer to shut down their peers to make them become customers or fuck off, and by doing so, deliver crappy service to everyone and lose customers, except they have a monopoly so they don't lose as many customers as they should.
brynx97 27 minutes ago [-]
We have many BGP workarounds to avoid interconnection points with some of our tier 1 providers and DT because as our providers tell us, discussions with DT to add capacity are a non-starter. We've been relatively stable through a tier 2 provider through Lumen to DT though... for now. Very similar to Cogent in some regions.
tannhaeuser 50 minutes ago [-]
Complaining about net neutrality in 2026 with yt videos. What a joke by pseudo-"hackers."
dewey 48 minutes ago [-]
It's called being pragmatic, are you going to sponsor the bandwidth needed so it can be hosted on a sustainable indie server?
egeozcan 45 minutes ago [-]
In life, you have to pick your battles.
Rendered at 10:38:45 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Since then, I have always used my own device and I maintain a GitHub Snippet in how to connect OpenWRT modem (and by extension, any other modem that supports pppoe), rather than their Huawei SpeedPort crap or the more expensive Fritz Box). Link to Gist : https://gist.github.com/madduci/8b8637b922e433d617261373220b...
I use PiHole in my own network, circumnavigating the DNS limitations, using Quad9 as my main DNS provider, but Unbound is on my to-do list.
The most concerning limitation in the German market is the unavailability of native Glass Fiber modems, that can accept as input a Glass Fiber connection: at the moment, providers install their own Glass Fiber modem. Without it, you can't actually have an internet connection at home
FTTH here in Australia is the same, you’re stuck using the network providers device with your LAN device connected behind it.
There was fierce lobbying back in the day for our national broadband network to be simple dark fibre and that ISPs could build on top of that to provide innovation and differentiation.
Instead what we got was a bunch of ISPs that resell the National Broadband Network’s expensive wholesale plans with little in the way of either differentiation or innovation.
It's the same in the US. The ISP fiber network falls inside their security boundary in my experience - you can't BYOD. They install a modem (these days often including an integrated router, switch, and AP) and you receive either ethernet or wifi from them.
I think the only major change in that regard has been that coaxial cable providers here will often let you bring your own docsis modem these days.
I never found any of this concerning until quite recently. With the advent of ISPs providing public wifi service out of consumer endpoints as well as wifi based radar I'm no longer comfortable having vendor controlled wireless equipment in my home.
Solution: I got my Starlink. 3x speed. No crappy service. Weather independent. And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .
[ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]
> [ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]
Right - but then you also depend on an US service here. And the USA changed policy where Europeans became enemies ("we won't give you arms to defend against Russian invaders! Greenland will be occupied by our military soon!").
It's a bad situation, lose-lose here. I don't think the price difference is the primary problem though; the behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.
don't they do local downlinks? at least for countries they have an agreement with or where the infrastructure is available?
Last apartment I rented Telekom was the only option and that was one of the reasons why I decided to move.
Starlink I would love to try but as there's building and trees blocking the horizon it's not an option here sadly.
But whatever it seems to be but it doesn't seem to really bother you that he makes money thanks to you.
Good that having better Internet is more important than musk and whatever you don't like about him.
Just a reminder his 10.000 satellites destroying astronomy research is only used by 9 million people right now.
And apparently often enough by people who actually have Internet and prefer better Internet despite criticism this Nazi saluting in human drugy.
Then you call their customer support, tech comes out, it's not raining anymore and everything works, and the problem doesn't get fixed.
That's nothing compared to what German authorities can do to me. Germany is a country where you get police searching your home for torrenting movies or making stupid jokes on Facebook. So yeah.
Also about enshittification - one could argue that our local ISPs never left that phase to begin with.
Sounds like and access line issue with DSL (lol)
DSL is so old you can't even order it in Sweden anymore.
Also, the post above would be a core issue not access
https://kozosseg.telekom.hu/topic/40322-cloudflare-magyar-te...
https://old.reddit.com/r/programmingHungary/comments/1ngv2pt...
https://telex.hu/techtud/2024/06/21/deutsche-telekom-cloudfl...
At least they are cheap. 25€ a month for 2gbps/1gbps so I can’t complain about that
They also offer 4gbps/2gbps for 40€ but at this point I’m not even sure what to use that for (besides torrent seeding)
They claim Telekom keeps their transit access points intentionally underdimensioned. In order to be reachable at decent speed by Telekom customers, internet services need a direct, paid contract with Telekom.
Edit: The section numbering is weird. Why does 2.2.0 come after 2.3? On my phone, don't have a good overview.
I don’t understand why anyone that serves the German market would use Cloudflare. Regardless of who is at fault, you are losing a lot of customers that way.
Don't know. Germans are stingy. I'm German, I live in Germany yet I don't even localize my software to German anymore because German downloads wouldn't convert in any meaningful way. (Even when I had German localization).
It's just anecdotal of course but every other dev I talked to would confirm this unless they had some very germany-specific product.
Though more recently they seem to have lost that protection. [3]
So if that page now deliberately uses the "Telekom color" to call out their bad behavior, that's a statement on its own.
[1] https://adage.com/article/digital/t-mobile-says-it-owns-excl...
[2] https://www.exali.de/Info-Base/magenta-markenstreit (in German)
[3] https://chiever.nl/en/blog-en/t-mobile-loses-the-protection-...
I get it - a 2026 "hackers" campaign for binging yt. And in case you haven't noticed: appealing to the net neutrality debate of last millenium is meaningless with just a bunch of monopolists left on the net profitting of vast public investments. The kind of thing traditionalist "hackers" in it for social recognition would be wasting their time on.
Largest economy in eu but very unstable and riddled with wierd burocracy.
Strongest worker protection, but very large amount of lobbysm.
Most advanced railway system in eu, transformed into a joke by interdiction from said lobbies.
You have to pay a "radio tax" to help funding press and keep it independent, but then fuck net neutrality.
And I could continue with more point, but I don't want to get too political.
Imagine an institution being dependent and biased in exactly the opposite way that fox news is independent and balanced. Imagine a government-independent institution where you join a controlling organ and after sworn in you are invited to 2 after-meetings at the same time. One invitation comes in a red letter the other in a blue letter. Yet everybody has to be independent because that is what it is supposed to be. Germans can be very very stubborn about that.
But it's possible it's just my personal bias.
France is certainly better
* Old Androids are not repairable because they're shit, not because a megacorp works hard to make repair impossible
* Old Androids may be hacked by a pegasus-like software (just like most new smartphones anyway), but at least the operating system does not lock you into its own closed ecosystem.
You may disagree, and correctly, because it's in part irrational, but many Europeans just dislike Apple and consider Android a more open/free ecosystem.
Based.
Fsk Apple. Soy aah