I don't know much about this, but wouldn't the description of this imply you're stimulating the body to be in an a long-term situation that would be commonly viewed as unpleasant (inflamed, maybe nasal drainage, that type of thing) with the positive tradeoff that you get fewer actual infections?
MathMonkeyMan 4 hours ago [-]
Yep! But you are also a mouse who has limited venues in which to complain.
I wonder if the vaccine causes inflammatory and other unpleasant responses when administered. If so, I wonder if those responses go away after the last dose, when the three months of protection begin.
Here are the two paragraphs that I found interesting:
> The new vaccine, for now known as GLA-3M-052-LS+OVA, mimics the T cell signals that directly stimulate innate immune cells in the lungs. It also contains a harmless antigen, an egg protein called ovalbumin or OVA, which recruits T cells into the lungs to maintain the innate response for weeks to months.
> In the study, mice were given a drop of the vaccine in their noses. Some recieved multiple doses, given a week apart. Each mouse was then exposed to one type of respiratory virus. With three doses of the vaccine, mice were protected against SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses for at least three months.
Terr_ 1 hours ago [-]
> It also contains a harmless antigen, an egg protein called ovalbumin or OVA
Here's hoping the final product doesn't have a side-effect of inducing an allergy to the main component of egg-whites.
Although even if that happened... Would it only apply to the raw materials, as opposed to cooked products where the ovalbumin was denatured by heat?
Edit: No, wait! What about "safe to eat" cookie-dough, which uses heat-treated flour and pasteurized eggs as ingredients!? That might not destroy the albumin, and I'm not ready to give it up...
Animats 3 hours ago [-]
Right, that's been mentioned elsewhere.
A new area of research has opened up. This approach may be more useful for treatment than prevention. It's not really a vaccine; it's more like an induced vaccine response. Keeping the immune system in that state full time might be a problem. But after an infection, that's what's wanted.
rossdavidh 25 minutes ago [-]
I think that "vaccine" is really not the right word to use for this; they sound as different as bandages and blood transfusions. But if it works as advertised, it could be useful if used in the right situation.
I do wonder if the kind of people who got vaccinated 10 times against Covid-19 will end up trying to get a sniff of this every month? Kind of like how we overuse antibiotics in cleaners. It seems like it would be best if saved for an "oh shoot" kind of situation.
rzzzt 4 hours ago [-]
Me neither, but I got something similar from the abstract that I was about to ask, so adding it here: "Following infection, vaccinated mice mounted rapid pathogen-specific T cell and antibody responses and formed ectopic lymphoid structures in the lung."
That latter term (ectopic lymphoid structure) comes up in connection with persistent inflammation where the immune system sets up camp near the problem point. Is this good or bad? Do these go away once the infection clears up?
dillydogg 2 hours ago [-]
These are pretty common, physiologic structures associated with infections. They can be just a handful of cells on a slide or be quite large, and I don't know what they found in these infections. I didn't read the original paper. The ectopic lymphoid structures go away after the infection resolves. It seems that the immune system has ways to set up mini lymph node architecture right by the site of infections, which is very sensible. The same process is going on in a more organized way in the draining lymph node in parallel. Research into these was really hot in the 2010s, but people don't seem to be as into them anymore (but my research has also transitioned to innate immunity from adaptive, so it's likely that I'm no longer in that universe).
In general, it doesn't surprise me that when you prime the innate immune system, the adaptive immune system works well. The problem is that pathogens have an incredible suite of tools ready to evade these mechanisms. The doses of the pathogens are typically insanely high too, which I do not think model natural infections well. Anyways, this is intriguing, so I'll take a look at the original paper one of these days. Vaccine research generally is so boring. It's like, we vaccinated, and it worked, or didn't, no mechanism.
ivan_gammel 4 hours ago [-]
Or worse. If it is so easy to activate, there must be an evolutionary reason why we don’t have it.
tshaddox 14 minutes ago [-]
There doesn’t need to be an evolutionary reason why we don’t have something. That’s the default!
gcanyon 45 minutes ago [-]
I think you have evolution backwards. There only needs to not be a reason we need it to survive long enough to reproduce. Or more probabilistically, there needs to not be a significant reproductive benefit to it.
And bear in mind that most people don't have a problem surviving colds and the like long enough to reproduce even with no vaccines at all, and that was probably more true for much of our evolutionary history when we were living much more isolated lives, and not cohabiting with chickens and pigs.
MarkusQ 3 hours ago [-]
Systemic cost.
We could have paper shredders, blenders, toasters, water taps, and so on that just ran all the time, but our utility bills would be ginormous. Same thing for our bodies.
lokar 3 hours ago [-]
Or the risk of autoimmune disease?
ekianjo 26 minutes ago [-]
Yes that's the obvious one
Rexxar 2 hours ago [-]
Maybe it would made the immune system age faster if it is "used" too much.
ekianjo 26 minutes ago [-]
Inflammation is certainly not "free". It causes systemic damage.
standardUser 33 minutes ago [-]
People with severe allergies or at high risk would probably make the tradeoff even if side effects were a problem. If they're not a problem, I could see most people taking this regularly just to avoid the nuisance of respiratory infections.
Horatius77 2 hours ago [-]
Appears that it is trying to stimulate broad immunity .. instead of any one specific virus/disease. Artificial and overstimulation of our immune systems long-term can't be healthy. Definitely a tradeoff here.
gcanyon 39 minutes ago [-]
> [greater activity within] our immune systems long-term can't be healthy
Not trying to be flip, but why? "Natural" isn't always better, and as the obesity epidemic has shown, our evolutionary past hasn't done a perfect job of preparing us for our current environment.
You might be right, but I'm skeptical that there is any non-extreme limit to something as simple and mechanical as our innate immune system.
adrianN 14 minutes ago [-]
We know that systemic inflammation is associated with all kinds of chronic diseases. I don’t know whether we have figured out which causes which, but I’d be wary of overstimulating the immune system too.
curtisf 41 minutes ago [-]
It could also be useful in low doses to supplement, for example, a seasonal vaccine in a year where they are especially unsure about prevalent strains, or where their predictions were already proved wrong early in the flu season
butILoveLife 41 minutes ago [-]
Cant we say this applies to the flu vaccine? This almost validates why I skip it every year.
I get sick after getting the flu vaccine and feel pretty bad for 1-3 days... then I get the flu anyway because they picked the wrong ones.
gus_massa 17 minutes ago [-]
The normal vaccine is very different. The inmune system learns how to block one virus or bacteria and go to rest until the virus or bacteria appears.
This looks like the inmune system is keep at the emergency level for 3 months.
2 hours ago [-]
dionian 1 hours ago [-]
you would think so! as a "vaccine skeptic", i think this kind of research is important and patients should be able to decide w/ their doctor which to pursue based on their individual condition. perhaps this tradeoff will be worth it in higher risk individuals.
ekianjo 24 minutes ago [-]
Until they mandate it...
14 minutes ago [-]
deepriverfish 2 hours ago [-]
as someone with chronic nasal allergies, would this work for me?
The only human disease that has been eradicated is smallpox. What did that get relabeled to?
idontwantthis 3 hours ago [-]
Yeah this is the funniest anti-vax stance I've ever heard. I'm really interested to hear what other diseases we've apparently eradicated without telling anyone.
dennis_jeeves2 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
cryzinger 3 hours ago [-]
Measles and chickenpox aren't even similar pathogens. Chickenpox is more closely related to herpes!
(That's also why chickenpox can come back later in life as shingles, the same way cold sores recur... because shingles is reactivated chickenpox, it's not a "relabeled" virus...)
dennis_jeeves2 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
asacrowflies 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dennis_jeeves2 3 hours ago [-]
Thanks for the compliments, lol.
And I intend to copy the Mongoloid one. No royalty for you.
snitzr 4 hours ago [-]
Good news! Also, AI thumbnail defies all physical laws.
Hmm, you are correct. I misread the article. My point is that cures exist, have existed. They've been hidden or dismissed by the powers that be, e.g. people that have controlled the world, and live even here on HackerNews. But worry not, full disclosure is coming soon, along with the end of most authoritarian regimes ;)
stevenalowe 1 hours ago [-]
Disagree. Prevention of many things via broad immunity seems superior to alleged multiple alleged Cures
SilentM68 1 hours ago [-]
:)
Rendered at 02:42:25 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
https://sci-net.xyz/10.1126/science.aea1260
I wonder if the vaccine causes inflammatory and other unpleasant responses when administered. If so, I wonder if those responses go away after the last dose, when the three months of protection begin.
Here are the two paragraphs that I found interesting:
> The new vaccine, for now known as GLA-3M-052-LS+OVA, mimics the T cell signals that directly stimulate innate immune cells in the lungs. It also contains a harmless antigen, an egg protein called ovalbumin or OVA, which recruits T cells into the lungs to maintain the innate response for weeks to months.
> In the study, mice were given a drop of the vaccine in their noses. Some recieved multiple doses, given a week apart. Each mouse was then exposed to one type of respiratory virus. With three doses of the vaccine, mice were protected against SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses for at least three months.
Here's hoping the final product doesn't have a side-effect of inducing an allergy to the main component of egg-whites.
Although even if that happened... Would it only apply to the raw materials, as opposed to cooked products where the ovalbumin was denatured by heat?
Edit: No, wait! What about "safe to eat" cookie-dough, which uses heat-treated flour and pasteurized eggs as ingredients!? That might not destroy the albumin, and I'm not ready to give it up...
A new area of research has opened up. This approach may be more useful for treatment than prevention. It's not really a vaccine; it's more like an induced vaccine response. Keeping the immune system in that state full time might be a problem. But after an infection, that's what's wanted.
I do wonder if the kind of people who got vaccinated 10 times against Covid-19 will end up trying to get a sniff of this every month? Kind of like how we overuse antibiotics in cleaners. It seems like it would be best if saved for an "oh shoot" kind of situation.
That latter term (ectopic lymphoid structure) comes up in connection with persistent inflammation where the immune system sets up camp near the problem point. Is this good or bad? Do these go away once the infection clears up?
In general, it doesn't surprise me that when you prime the innate immune system, the adaptive immune system works well. The problem is that pathogens have an incredible suite of tools ready to evade these mechanisms. The doses of the pathogens are typically insanely high too, which I do not think model natural infections well. Anyways, this is intriguing, so I'll take a look at the original paper one of these days. Vaccine research generally is so boring. It's like, we vaccinated, and it worked, or didn't, no mechanism.
And bear in mind that most people don't have a problem surviving colds and the like long enough to reproduce even with no vaccines at all, and that was probably more true for much of our evolutionary history when we were living much more isolated lives, and not cohabiting with chickens and pigs.
We could have paper shredders, blenders, toasters, water taps, and so on that just ran all the time, but our utility bills would be ginormous. Same thing for our bodies.
Not trying to be flip, but why? "Natural" isn't always better, and as the obesity epidemic has shown, our evolutionary past hasn't done a perfect job of preparing us for our current environment.
You might be right, but I'm skeptical that there is any non-extreme limit to something as simple and mechanical as our innate immune system.
I get sick after getting the flu vaccine and feel pretty bad for 1-3 days... then I get the flu anyway because they picked the wrong ones.
This looks like the inmune system is keep at the emergency level for 3 months.
Some discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47080267
(That's also why chickenpox can come back later in life as shingles, the same way cold sores recur... because shingles is reactivated chickenpox, it's not a "relabeled" virus...)
And I intend to copy the Mongoloid one. No royalty for you.