At some point later I got around to playing with DC fast charging ... That market still has a long way to go as far as sorting out its business model, as billing based on time vs energy is completely unfair ... An excuse that's offered less and less often is that pricing by kilowatt-hours delivered is prohibited in some states by utility regulatory rules.
I didn't know they were billing for DC charging in the US based on Time instead of kwh. Thats odd. In Europe its just kwh.
bojan 5 hours ago [-]
> In Europe its just kwh.
In the EU, yes. When you go to those dark corners of Europe that never achieved the membership, all bets are off.
In Montenegro and Serbia they charge per minute because the only entity allowed to sell kwh's is the national electricity company (in Serbia it's owned by Russia, so it is heavily legally protected).
spockz 2 hours ago [-]
In Italy there are enough chargers that charge for both kWh and time connected. kWh for what you use and connected to discourage being connected all the time.
close04 4 hours ago [-]
No need to go further than dead center EU to see chargers where the cost has a time component, and an energy component, and even a (small) one time fee. Sometimes the charger is inside a paid parking, there that comes on top. These aren't shady operators either either, just the way they saw fit to prevent abuse and make more money.
Some have reasonable limits to prevent abuse [0], others just charge the customer as much as they can get away with.
Is abuse here just parking in the charger and leaving for a few hours, assumingly skipping any parking fee if you're only paying for kWh?
ubertaco 2 hours ago [-]
It's almost all by the kWh here, but perusing PlugShare I've seen a few level 2 chargers here and there that charge by the minute. Usually that's a sign of a charger that was set up a while ago and is owned by someone who hasn't checked on it since.
StilesCrisis 2 hours ago [-]
I've never paid by the minute. Tesla Superchargers often deliver less energy per minute when they're busy (sometimes much less!) and it would be frustrating if they charged per-minute.
Other systems I've seen (Chargepoint) also seem to be energy-based.
The Supercharger network is well done. It's a shame that they took this long to open up to other car models because they really do get a lot of things right.
rcxdude 5 hours ago [-]
Arguably it should be both. Sitting and occupying a DC fast charging booth, especially once you're not charging at the full rate, represents an opportunity cost since someone else could be using it.
cjrp 5 hours ago [-]
I used a Tesla charger (as a non-Tesla driver) recently. I think their pricing model is pretty good: pay per kWh (varies between peak and off-peak), and if the station is busy they can impose a "congestion charge" for anyone occupying a charger and not charging, or charging above 80% when it's not necessary for their journey (presumably only works for Teslas where the satnav knows about your journey and charge locations).
hvb2 5 hours ago [-]
> especially once you're not charging at the full rate
I don't think you want that as no car will be able to charge at 250kW for very long for example.
And I believe we're starting to see even higher peak charging rates. As always, there's no simple answers
a96 3 hours ago [-]
I think fast chargers in rush hour times will also bill for time to discourage long/slow charges on them. Naturally that'll vary on whoever sets the costs, but it does exist in EU as well.
ranguna 5 hours ago [-]
In Europe, sometimes it's just kWh, other times it's kWh and time. After charging is done, it's just time.
dyauspitr 2 hours ago [-]
I’ve charged in 30 states, it’s kwh every single time.
bluGill 2 hours ago [-]
Mowt states have changed the laws in the past 10 years. When nobody (other that lead acid convestions done at home) had an ev it did't matter that the law didn't allow for charging by kwh as nobody other than a utility wanted to do that anyway. When evs changed to mainstream laws changed. There are still some free public chargers near me from before the law change (at 6kw max charge rate they not often used and so don't cost them much to keep it.
dsr_ 2 hours ago [-]
For people who are not aware: this is the same Hobbit as
I really like both the e-Niro and the Kona EV for their "normal" car look and I did some hacking too. Wanted to play with the Web Bluetooth API and Svelte, so created the open source Niro Spy app (should work with your Kona too), works on iOS through BLE browser. It might be a good template for some OBD2 hacking, you can also check Open Vehicle Monitoring System repo and the evDash project.
The car is somewhat reliable on the battery side (still have SOH over 101% after 90k km / 50k miles), but the gearbox and motor bearings issue can be tricky to fix.
Also the MY2019 vehicles do lack remote climate controls and battery preconditioning (which I'm still trying to fix with the app).
sgt 6 hours ago [-]
Recently bought a second hand BMW i3 - what a cool car! Not planning to 'hack' it but nice to read about ideas.
nubinetwork 6 hours ago [-]
I've seen videos of that car... don't they only have like 40 miles of range, and the range extender only holds like 5 gallons of fuel?
mschild 6 hours ago [-]
For the original version released in 2013, range was a bit of a concern.
Later models, 120ah full electric version, the range is about 250km. In comparison to newer cars, not a lot, but considering you can buy newish used ones for under 15k, its not a bad deal if it fits your needs.
sgt 3 hours ago [-]
Funny how I'm downvoted for even mentioning an i3. I've also heard several comments insinuating that I must be gay for driving such a car. Are we still there in 2026?
skrebbel 2 hours ago [-]
don't read too much into a downvote here or there. as i read this the downvotes are already gone again. some people are just idiots. also some people just misclick.
sgt 5 hours ago [-]
You don't want the range extender - it makes it fiddly and potentially unreliable.
As for the range, I'm getting about 110 miles of range. It depends how you drive. This is the 94Ah battery, the later models had more range.
formerly_proven 6 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
anarticle 2 hours ago [-]
In an interesting turn of events there is a pack upgrade for the i3 that gives it more range than it started with!
This is the kind of hacking / upgrades I’d love to see. All in cost was about $6k when I last checked probably a little more now. You get a pack teardown, and new CATL cells. Range goes to 400km~.
sgt 2 hours ago [-]
That is very cool! I can see myself keeping this car for a long time. It's just so well built and the interior is also something to behold (compared to a lot of cars).
Range is not an issue at the moment (we have a Land Cruiser for longer trips) but once the batteries get really old this would be a great option.
miduil 3 hours ago [-]
> [...] due to some dipshit blonde not paying attention [...]
Wow, instantly stopped reading after this. I can't comprehend how someone would even remotely have the courage writing such in a public posting.
brookst 2 hours ago [-]
Same, stopped there. One of those odd pieces where the author is completely full of themselves and hostile, yet somehow decries other people’s attitudes (“as attitudes have degenerated, I found the ability to blind people driving behind me to be a critical safety feature”).
Weird bit of self-righteous misanthropy.
stavros 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah, scrolled down to that and closed the tab, it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Upvoter33 2 hours ago [-]
me too. It's like it was written in 1980.
tyjen 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
geonineties 2 hours ago [-]
Maybe a dipshit blonde wasn't paying attention and caused the problem?
Sometimes facts really do follow stereotypes.
zorg-is-real 6 hours ago [-]
There is a way to make the Android Auto work wirelessly
I didn't know they were billing for DC charging in the US based on Time instead of kwh. Thats odd. In Europe its just kwh.
In the EU, yes. When you go to those dark corners of Europe that never achieved the membership, all bets are off.
In Montenegro and Serbia they charge per minute because the only entity allowed to sell kwh's is the national electricity company (in Serbia it's owned by Russia, so it is heavily legally protected).
Some have reasonable limits to prevent abuse [0], others just charge the customer as much as they can get away with.
[0] https://www.tanke.io/oeffentliche-ladestationen/
Other systems I've seen (Chargepoint) also seem to be energy-based.
The Supercharger network is well done. It's a shame that they took this long to open up to other car models because they really do get a lot of things right.
I don't think you want that as no car will be able to charge at 250kW for very long for example.
And I believe we're starting to see even higher peak charging rates. As always, there's no simple answers
https://seclists.org/bugtraq/1995/Oct/28
The car is somewhat reliable on the battery side (still have SOH over 101% after 90k km / 50k miles), but the gearbox and motor bearings issue can be tricky to fix.
Also the MY2019 vehicles do lack remote climate controls and battery preconditioning (which I'm still trying to fix with the app).
Later models, 120ah full electric version, the range is about 250km. In comparison to newer cars, not a lot, but considering you can buy newish used ones for under 15k, its not a bad deal if it fits your needs.
As for the range, I'm getting about 110 miles of range. It depends how you drive. This is the 94Ah battery, the later models had more range.
https://mtgbattery.com/
This is the kind of hacking / upgrades I’d love to see. All in cost was about $6k when I last checked probably a little more now. You get a pack teardown, and new CATL cells. Range goes to 400km~.
Wow, instantly stopped reading after this. I can't comprehend how someone would even remotely have the courage writing such in a public posting.
Weird bit of self-righteous misanthropy.
I appreciate the autopilot effort of comma, but if this isn't hacking in the most classic sense of the word I don't know what is.