VR's problem, in my opinion, is that I can get immersed (fully, exactly as the author describes it) in a 2D game just fine - the lack of stereo vision or head-tracking or motion controls is no more an impediment to my immersion than the limited binocular overlap or peripheral vision or lag in a VR headset. And 2D is a heck of a lot cheaper and more convenient (and less nauseating).
That's not to say VR can never be successful, but I think it needs to offer something more compelling than just "immersion." Exercise or AR might be viable routes.
socalgal2 2 minutes ago [-]
I feel that's like saying "I can get just as fully immersed in a book so who needs movies?"
They're different experiences. I don't need Tetris or PacMan in VR. Conversely, Half-Life 1/2 etc are not remotely intense as Half-Life Alyx. In the first 2 you're watching a movie. In the later you're in the world of Half-Life
ghywertelling 15 minutes ago [-]
The most important quality of any successful trend (eg windows, internet, smart phones, cloud computing) has been convenience. Which is also the reason why I think Meta Glasses have a real chance to take off.
spacebanana7 4 minutes ago [-]
Also a key single use case that justifies the cost/friction of purchasing a new device.
Meta glasses somewhat justify themselves just for recording hikes/cycles/weddings etc.
DonThomasitos 12 minutes ago [-]
Exactly. It sounds like a detail that you can‘t eat and drink while you‘re in VR - but for casual experience it‘s friction and you resort back to a screen.
jerkstate 24 minutes ago [-]
With AI, VR is even more promising. I have been working on a Gaussian splat renderer for the Quest 3, and by having Claude and ChatGPT read state-of-the-art papers, I have been able to build a training and rendering pipeline that is getting >50 fps for large indoor scenes on the Quest 3. I started with an (AI-driven) port of a desktop renderer, which got less than 1 fps, but I've integrated both training and rendering improvements from research and added a bunch of quality and performance improvements and now it's actually usable. Applying research papers to a novel product is something that used to take weeks or months of a person's time and can now be measured in minutes and hours (and tokens).
echelon 21 minutes ago [-]
What's your take on WorldLabs and Apple's splat models? Are there other open source alternatives?
How would editing work?
Do you think these will win over video world models like Genie?
Have you played with DiamondWM and other open source video world models?
daviding 6 minutes ago [-]
There are degrees of VR usage I think. I've used it every day for about 5 years now. I use it for sit down flight sims, space games, driving sims often playing with others also in VR. I don't really like it for work compared to a few decent 2D panels in front of me, it's too isolating and I don't need the 3D feeling for that.
The barrier is really the hardware cost so it'll always be a niche hobby in those PC sim areas. I read stuff like 'VR is dead' and know it really means the leaping around Oasis 'Ready Player One' stuff, when really that's just one possible use case. I don't know how it'll ever cross the chasm of being popular, probably when the hardware gets super light and the local computing powerful enough, but there is this VR hobby niche that exists still if it doesn't.
nkrisc 16 minutes ago [-]
In my experience in the real word, VR is a lot like racing sims. No one I know owns a VR headset, no one I know talks about it, no one I know is very interested in it at all, but both exist as ticketed experience at places in and around malls.
So from where I'm sitting in my middle class suburbs, it's certainly not dead, but it's basically the modern equivalent of those actuated flight sim entertainment experiences from the 80s/90s.
VR seems to be much bigger among the perpetually online. For us normies VR is hardly a blip on the radar.
I still don't even really understand what Horizon Worlds or the Metaverse even was, or if there's a distinction between the two. I've heard of VRChat, but from the little I've seen, it seems extremely unappealing.
I still think that most people don't want to strap a computer screen to their face, for any reason. I've done it, it's not very pleasant.
manbash 31 seconds ago [-]
As someone who has both interest in VR and racing sims (and other sims), and tried VR and loved it, I am genuinely NOT INTERESTED in owning a headset for the obvious health reasons that come with using one.
There is no way this ever can be close to safe for your health than, say, not using it.
DonThomasitos 14 minutes ago [-]
„Clearly, VR technology isn’t fully ready yet.“
Disagree. It‘s quite mature and usable.
I worked on a software that offered VR as a feature. The user‘s started enthusiastically with eg. dedicated VR rooms. But it became clear that the immersive delta to a screen is surprisingly low. We‘re all trained to immerse into 2D screens on a daily basis. If you then observe how people are ridiculed while wearing a VR headset by their colleagues or how people with complicated hair style hesitate wearing a headset: then you understand why it‘s just not a good fit for B2B.
simonw 11 minutes ago [-]
I saw a recent comment that a significant portion of the human population wear face makeup that gets wrecked by a VR headset.
seanmcdirmid 20 minutes ago [-]
I’m on my third quest unit (my quest 1 died during the pandemic and I had to buy a new 1, and then the 2 came out). I still use it for around 3-4 hours a week and I’m thinking about upgrading to the quest 3. Just use one or two apps though (beat saber and fitxr), I never really got into actual gaming or social stuff on it. I wish a company would come around and seethe potential for fitness tech with VR, they could come up with better optimized solutions for it (and I don’t really count the mirror or stationary bike stuff). Fitness really fees like the killer app.
jazz9k 3 minutes ago [-]
I agree. I've been using the quest to regularly work out for the last 4 years.
It's the only app I use. I think my issue is that VR is very much a solo experience.
It's hard for me to have the free time and room to play with my kids and family. I would rather play 2d games with the kids.
wnevets 12 minutes ago [-]
VR has never been alive for me. If Apple can't get fetch to happen I don't know how anybody can with the current state of the pc hardware industry.
PaulHoule 4 days ago [-]
(1) Something that would be a wild success to any other company would be a failure for Facebook, Facebook just isn't the right company for this opportunity.
(2) I think the Horizon Worlds problem is not so much that the whole idea is cringe but rather than the authoring tools weren't good enough for users or brands to create interesting worlds. I wanted it to work but I couldn't find worlds I wanted to visit and was strongly alienated by the platform's inability to incorporate JPG images or GLB models. No way I'm going to waste my time learning an awkward interface to make worlds based on dumbed-down computational solid geometry where I can't apply those skills to other platforms.
(3) Part of that problem is that the MQ3 has enough RAM that you can use video game programming techniques to make interesting worlds but very little headroom for user-generated content in systems like Horizon Worlds and VRChat. The 16GB Apple Vision Pro is better but I find it completely comfortable to author for PC VR with a 64GB workstation as much as I love the standalone MQ3 experience.
jsbisviewtiful 26 minutes ago [-]
A new hurdle the VR market will be facing is that Meta bought and burned the Oculus brand, one of the most well-known VR brands in the market. Will be curious to see how the market performs if Meta completely abandons Oculus headset production.
idle_zealot 21 minutes ago [-]
We'll see how it plays out, but Valve is set to release a standalone PC VR headset (that can also pair to a PC for added horsepower). Apparently their software allows it to run Android and Windows VR (and classic) applications. If this space is viable then that sounds like the right feature set to prove it.
dryadin 4 days ago [-]
These are good points. I don’t think the dev side was the main issue, though. If they had managed to achieve a substantial user base, developers would have adapted and found ways around the limitations, as they always do.
The main issue is that the user experience is not good enough. The headset is heavy, glitchy, you bump into things, and you look awkward using it. It didn’t have to be like this, and it may still improve in the future.
A very light standalone headset that works out of the box, along with something like a compact treadmill setup you can put in the corner, could change things. If enough users start using this, developers will make do with any limitations.
googaar 16 minutes ago [-]
VR is gonna be insane once hardware catches up. It’s the natural next frontier imo.
yakattak 14 minutes ago [-]
This has been the sentiment for nearly a decade now.
marginalia_nu 3 minutes ago [-]
Much longer. We had VR in the '60s.
Rendered at 18:19:41 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
That's not to say VR can never be successful, but I think it needs to offer something more compelling than just "immersion." Exercise or AR might be viable routes.
They're different experiences. I don't need Tetris or PacMan in VR. Conversely, Half-Life 1/2 etc are not remotely intense as Half-Life Alyx. In the first 2 you're watching a movie. In the later you're in the world of Half-Life
Meta glasses somewhat justify themselves just for recording hikes/cycles/weddings etc.
How would editing work?
Do you think these will win over video world models like Genie?
Have you played with DiamondWM and other open source video world models?
The barrier is really the hardware cost so it'll always be a niche hobby in those PC sim areas. I read stuff like 'VR is dead' and know it really means the leaping around Oasis 'Ready Player One' stuff, when really that's just one possible use case. I don't know how it'll ever cross the chasm of being popular, probably when the hardware gets super light and the local computing powerful enough, but there is this VR hobby niche that exists still if it doesn't.
So from where I'm sitting in my middle class suburbs, it's certainly not dead, but it's basically the modern equivalent of those actuated flight sim entertainment experiences from the 80s/90s.
VR seems to be much bigger among the perpetually online. For us normies VR is hardly a blip on the radar.
I still don't even really understand what Horizon Worlds or the Metaverse even was, or if there's a distinction between the two. I've heard of VRChat, but from the little I've seen, it seems extremely unappealing.
I still think that most people don't want to strap a computer screen to their face, for any reason. I've done it, it's not very pleasant.
There is no way this ever can be close to safe for your health than, say, not using it.
Disagree. It‘s quite mature and usable.
I worked on a software that offered VR as a feature. The user‘s started enthusiastically with eg. dedicated VR rooms. But it became clear that the immersive delta to a screen is surprisingly low. We‘re all trained to immerse into 2D screens on a daily basis. If you then observe how people are ridiculed while wearing a VR headset by their colleagues or how people with complicated hair style hesitate wearing a headset: then you understand why it‘s just not a good fit for B2B.
It's the only app I use. I think my issue is that VR is very much a solo experience.
It's hard for me to have the free time and room to play with my kids and family. I would rather play 2d games with the kids.
(2) I think the Horizon Worlds problem is not so much that the whole idea is cringe but rather than the authoring tools weren't good enough for users or brands to create interesting worlds. I wanted it to work but I couldn't find worlds I wanted to visit and was strongly alienated by the platform's inability to incorporate JPG images or GLB models. No way I'm going to waste my time learning an awkward interface to make worlds based on dumbed-down computational solid geometry where I can't apply those skills to other platforms.
(3) Part of that problem is that the MQ3 has enough RAM that you can use video game programming techniques to make interesting worlds but very little headroom for user-generated content in systems like Horizon Worlds and VRChat. The 16GB Apple Vision Pro is better but I find it completely comfortable to author for PC VR with a 64GB workstation as much as I love the standalone MQ3 experience.