I hope there's some forced migration of the SaaS business model towards primarily being "just an API" for whatever magic sauce it is they have. Too much of SaaS moats are just locking the backend behind an undocumented API.
Users should be able to have full control over their experience interacting with third parties if they want it. This isn't unique to post-LLM stacks like this, but it seems like this shifts the balance of power.
The next step after injecting custom UI controls is to build completely alternative frontends. The next step after that should be to build generic local frontends that abstract over multiple comparable thirdparty providers.
ebiester 2 hours ago [-]
So, it's just changing the problem up a level.
First, is a 500 because you are using the API in a way that is unexpected a customer found defect? If Claude can't find the answer, what is the expectation of support?
If an internal team makes a change that breaks your workflow (because it was an unexpected use case), is that a CFD?
Do teams slow down in new features because the API must be the stress test of a public api?
I'm fine with unsupported frontends but an external API will be very difficult to keep static.
raw_anon_1111 59 minutes ago [-]
The last company I worked for before going into consulting full time was a startup where I was the then new CTOs first technical hire. The company before then outsourced the actual technical work to a third party consulting company until they found product market fit.
His primary mandate was API and micro service first.
Our customers were large health care systems.
We had a customer facing website that was built on top of the same APIs that we sold our customers.
Our customers paid for the features they wanted and those features were available on our website, they were used for their website and mobile apps and the ETL process was either via a file they sent us and we ran through the same APIs or they could use our APIs directly for both online and batch processes.
This is no different from the API mandate Bezos made at Amazon back in 2000.
You don’t have to keep an API static - that’s what versioning is for.
namanyayg 4 hours ago [-]
Nice vision, "alternative frontends" is something really useful for horizontal SaaS. We do this for over 2000 customers, from field workers to CEOs of public companies, and it's so satisfying to hear the great feedback when they tell me that they finally have software perfectly adapted to their workflows.
apsurd 3 hours ago [-]
the url for your company in your profile is misspelled.
namanyayg 2 hours ago [-]
Ty fixed! Allow me to blame it on the lack of sleep as I'm in the current yc batch.
apsurd 2 hours ago [-]
Good luck! The premise sticks immediately.
If attention-span was shot with social-media, it has no chance in the age of AI. All these deep tech-tools potentially have tons of value, but if it doesn't make sense in 5 seconds, very hard to compete.
shardullavekar 4 hours ago [-]
I think the right step would be to somehow communicate to the vendor that this feature is needed (eliminating the PM backlog BS) and their coding Agents should pick it and build it. The real moat they have is SaaS vendors have everyone believe that trivial feature requests take time to implement.
raw_anon_1111 56 minutes ago [-]
There is an entire industry of Salesforce, Workday, ServiceNow consultants and almost any other major SaaS app that you can hire to customize the app based on public APIs. I can’t imagine choosing any mission critical SaaS app without publicly documented APIs
treyd 4 hours ago [-]
That introduces a level of indirection between "what I want" and what gets built. A workflow like the OP just has less friction. SaaS platforms would want to provide more stable accessible APIs if it becomes a popular model, because users would find it more usable.
shardullavekar 4 hours ago [-]
these embeddable UI could be a direct ask on how users want a workflow, the SaaS vendors can distribute the embeddable UI and see if it clicks with a lot of users. Would push them to create a stable API
x0x0 3 hours ago [-]
> have everyone believe that trivial feature requests take time to implement.
This could not be more wrong. Features do, because telling a user they can do X comes with a standing promise that it works, the results are correct, the ui is accessible, the feature cleanly interacts with all other features in the system (both now and in the future), corner cases are worked out, etc. And that burden is where prod+eng spend time.
hluska 3 hours ago [-]
Doesn’t sound like you have much experience in software businesses.
drewbeck 4 hours ago [-]
> The real moat they have is SaaS vendors have everyone believe that trivial feature requests take time to implement.
So true. People are going to be sooo mad when they find out we all have these Build Features For Free buttons and just don't press them.
apsurd 3 hours ago [-]
Surprised this is your take coming from a UX designer. You think a straight path for every user to add their feature ideas results in a good UX?
edit: reading further into this, the idea is perhaps that users vibe-code their own distinct UX with everything valuable to them. That's not a bad take, but even in that world, I wouldn't think UX and product disciplines become exposed for having no value at all.
drewbeck 3 hours ago [-]
My take in this (ironic) comment was just "no feature is free", which I don't think should be odd coming from a UX designer!
> the idea is perhaps that users vibe-code their own distinct UX with everything valuable to them
I do find this interesting. I work on a complex business operations and reporting platform and every facility has their own lil quirks. More control in their hands would let them smooth out their workflows while still relying on the foundational work our platform does.
apsurd 2 hours ago [-]
Ah, I didn't register the sarcasm. Typical HN, it's probably why you're downvoted.
Yes, today's HN session has me nerd-sniped about what the future of product development looks like. I've been thinking how mock-to-prototype is just too slow when engineers can ship so much so fast. Eng needs design direction especially when it's too easy to "solve design" with tailwind components and "You're a designer from a top saas company" prompts.
But what if the new UX is less visual-first and more IA, primitives and well structured object models... now that has me thinking.
namanyayg 4 hours ago [-]
Nice post and I agree that making software with really simple UX for last mile cases is the solution to the SaaS-pocalypse and is something new that was not possible before AI.
I'm solving this from the other side of the equation: we work directly with the SaaS vendors to make vibe coding embedded into their platform. Working with some Series B companies right now, 2000 business users are now able to build any feature they want, within the guardrails of the SaaS vendor. (More info in profile if anyone wants to chat)
Exciting times!
mpeg 1 hours ago [-]
I don't have a horse in this race, but this seems the right way to me. As a developer, I do already inject custom scripts to provide extra functionality / automation on SaaS I use where APIs are not available or limited.
However, the thought of the non-technical users I work with doing that is scary, they have no idea if the code the LLM writes is correct, is it going to have a bug that causes a massive issue down the line?
I've seen fat finger errors cause financial loss, but at least in those cases the user always had a chance to realise their error and fix it, with something like this how would you even know?
mads_quist 4 hours ago [-]
Although I absolutely understand the frustration expressed by the author, I find the notion that SaaS companies are somehow 'evil' because they optimize for the 80/20 rule a bit arrogant. Anyone working in SaaS - or really in any business- understands that you need to prioritize. In the end, your obligation as a company, regardless of your product, is to generate profits. And that's absolutely OK.
raw_anon_1111 54 minutes ago [-]
The right answer is just to have a well documented publicly available API for your customers and eat your own dogfood.
pixl97 2 hours ago [-]
>In the end, your obligation as a company, regardless of your product, is to generate profits.
Moloch demands babies be scarified to generate maximum profits!
For one, this is a very US concentric way of thinking. Secondly, if a human person thought like this we'd consider them to be an anti-social psychopath, which directly conflicts with the more recent SCOTUS ruling that companies are humans too.
So, yes, we have legally mandated companies be evil. It's been working out well for us in the US as prices skyrocket and any competition is bought up or abused with patents/IP.
shardullavekar 4 hours ago [-]
> In the end, your obligation as a company, regardless of your product, is to generate profits.
No denying that. SaaS started with a user problem at the center of it and as they scaled, forgot about an individual user. This only presents the user frustration and a possible solution to it.
drewbeck 4 hours ago [-]
> as they scaled, forgot about an individual user
If you're building for individual users you're not going to succeed. We all prioritize for broad success from the beginning.
I'm very into the idea of inversion of control and giving users this flexibility but I agree with GP that the SaaS company critique is misplaced. I hope you find enough success with 100X that you end up coming to the same conclusion.
I'll also add that one of your video examples is essentially a Twitter spam generator; is that the kind of feature you think SaaS companies should be prioritizing?
shardullavekar 4 hours ago [-]
I created that twitter responder after reading this post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47568028). That wasn't to call out what SaaS companies should prioratise but to show how easy it would be for a user to do it.
socketcluster 3 hours ago [-]
SaaS needs to be reinvented. We need backend platforms which provide more security controls, more flexibility in terms of data-sharing, seamless access by AI agents with advanced access controls; e.g. some agents can define schemas, some agents read data, other agents write data, some agents curate data... And custom app frontends can be generated on demand and integrate data from many different sources. This is what I've been working towards with https://saasufy.com/
mrjn 3 hours ago [-]
Talking about dark modes, nytimes still doesn't have an official dark mode (or not I can easily see). This should help.
xixixao 3 hours ago [-]
They have it in the app… grrr
bobbiechen 5 hours ago [-]
Enterprise userscripts? Very neat, though I wonder if typical enterprise security policies would allow for this.
hrimfaxi 38 minutes ago [-]
Unless the browser locks down devtools you can't you always run userscripts to some extent?
namanyayg 4 hours ago [-]
One way to solve it is to partner with the enterprise directly and work within their guardrails
Shameless plug: my company does it, live with Series B companies.
shardullavekar 4 hours ago [-]
got our extension approved, post which we had no issues.
esafak 4 hours ago [-]
You don't want to ship every feature every user wants, for various reasons that I assume are obvious. Instead make it extensible.
shardullavekar 3 hours ago [-]
users didnt ask for slow apis either but there they are. I am speaking for the user here and sharing their frustration. Allowing UI modification to fit the user needs should be a default now. The APIs already act as a gaurdrail on what's possible
esafak 3 hours ago [-]
Configurability in moderation is fine, but go too far and users can hurt each other. JIRA is famous for this: managers customize the life out of it at others' expense.
shardullavekar 3 hours ago [-]
hence the sharability and subscription. other users need to explicitly subscribe to the page boosters. Else they continue with what they have.
codegladiator 4 hours ago [-]
how far it can go ? complete page rewrites ?
Rendered at 20:29:42 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Users should be able to have full control over their experience interacting with third parties if they want it. This isn't unique to post-LLM stacks like this, but it seems like this shifts the balance of power.
The next step after injecting custom UI controls is to build completely alternative frontends. The next step after that should be to build generic local frontends that abstract over multiple comparable thirdparty providers.
First, is a 500 because you are using the API in a way that is unexpected a customer found defect? If Claude can't find the answer, what is the expectation of support?
If an internal team makes a change that breaks your workflow (because it was an unexpected use case), is that a CFD?
Do teams slow down in new features because the API must be the stress test of a public api?
I'm fine with unsupported frontends but an external API will be very difficult to keep static.
His primary mandate was API and micro service first.
Our customers were large health care systems.
We had a customer facing website that was built on top of the same APIs that we sold our customers.
Our customers paid for the features they wanted and those features were available on our website, they were used for their website and mobile apps and the ETL process was either via a file they sent us and we ran through the same APIs or they could use our APIs directly for both online and batch processes.
This is no different from the API mandate Bezos made at Amazon back in 2000.
You don’t have to keep an API static - that’s what versioning is for.
If attention-span was shot with social-media, it has no chance in the age of AI. All these deep tech-tools potentially have tons of value, but if it doesn't make sense in 5 seconds, very hard to compete.
This could not be more wrong. Features do, because telling a user they can do X comes with a standing promise that it works, the results are correct, the ui is accessible, the feature cleanly interacts with all other features in the system (both now and in the future), corner cases are worked out, etc. And that burden is where prod+eng spend time.
So true. People are going to be sooo mad when they find out we all have these Build Features For Free buttons and just don't press them.
edit: reading further into this, the idea is perhaps that users vibe-code their own distinct UX with everything valuable to them. That's not a bad take, but even in that world, I wouldn't think UX and product disciplines become exposed for having no value at all.
> the idea is perhaps that users vibe-code their own distinct UX with everything valuable to them
I do find this interesting. I work on a complex business operations and reporting platform and every facility has their own lil quirks. More control in their hands would let them smooth out their workflows while still relying on the foundational work our platform does.
Yes, today's HN session has me nerd-sniped about what the future of product development looks like. I've been thinking how mock-to-prototype is just too slow when engineers can ship so much so fast. Eng needs design direction especially when it's too easy to "solve design" with tailwind components and "You're a designer from a top saas company" prompts.
But what if the new UX is less visual-first and more IA, primitives and well structured object models... now that has me thinking.
I'm solving this from the other side of the equation: we work directly with the SaaS vendors to make vibe coding embedded into their platform. Working with some Series B companies right now, 2000 business users are now able to build any feature they want, within the guardrails of the SaaS vendor. (More info in profile if anyone wants to chat)
Exciting times!
However, the thought of the non-technical users I work with doing that is scary, they have no idea if the code the LLM writes is correct, is it going to have a bug that causes a massive issue down the line?
I've seen fat finger errors cause financial loss, but at least in those cases the user always had a chance to realise their error and fix it, with something like this how would you even know?
Moloch demands babies be scarified to generate maximum profits!
For one, this is a very US concentric way of thinking. Secondly, if a human person thought like this we'd consider them to be an anti-social psychopath, which directly conflicts with the more recent SCOTUS ruling that companies are humans too.
So, yes, we have legally mandated companies be evil. It's been working out well for us in the US as prices skyrocket and any competition is bought up or abused with patents/IP.
No denying that. SaaS started with a user problem at the center of it and as they scaled, forgot about an individual user. This only presents the user frustration and a possible solution to it.
If you're building for individual users you're not going to succeed. We all prioritize for broad success from the beginning.
I'm very into the idea of inversion of control and giving users this flexibility but I agree with GP that the SaaS company critique is misplaced. I hope you find enough success with 100X that you end up coming to the same conclusion.
I'll also add that one of your video examples is essentially a Twitter spam generator; is that the kind of feature you think SaaS companies should be prioritizing?
Shameless plug: my company does it, live with Series B companies.