The author clearly had some involvement in the article, I wish they could have written it themselves. It reads like they gave Claude some benchmark data and got it to write the rest of the article.
Aerolfos 6 minutes ago [-]
AI or not, it's such a bad article that constantly repeats itself and spends more time (and words) promising the upcoming sections and "deep insights" than it does on actually writing any of those facts.
darkteflon 13 hours ago [-]
I bought an 8gb M1 Air in 2020 (for what now feels like an absurdly small sum of money) as an experiment in how-cheap-is-too-cheap / chuckable travel laptop. I ended up using it as my main laptop for 2 years without regret, then handed it to my son for school.
It remains in perfect condition and as delightful to use as the day I bought it (Apple software snafus notwithstanding). I fully expect to get at least 10 years use out of it. Honestly, I feel like it could probably carry him all the way through school - but I’d be embarrassed to say that out loud since that’s another 9 years.
epistasis 12 hours ago [-]
I've been on my M1 Air, 16GB, since a few weeks after launch, more than six years now. I still use it daily with lots of Docker containers, VS Code, tons of Electron apps, a small macOS arm VM, and lots of browser tabs simultaneously. Recently, Claude's VM environment is getting exercised simultaneously. Usually the memory pressure is into yellow, but responsiveness is still far higher than any Mac from the Intel days, and far more usable than any Windows laptop that I have the misfortune to experience when borrowing somebody else's computer. And despite all that memory pressure, my SSD isn't getting worn out by swapping, I'm at only "3%" of SSD wear, if those stats on the CLI are to be trusted.
I'm not sure I'll need another computer anytime soon. Even though the kids jumped on it once when I left it on the couch for a few minutes, bending the case on one side of the keyboard. It bent back mostly flat. Gives it a bit of personality.
Never before has $1099 (or whatever) of hardware gone so far for me.
ako 39 minutes ago [-]
Same with the iPad Air m1, handles everything you throw at it, does video editing, office, etc. Connected to an external display and keyboard feels like a full laptop, on the couch is the best consumption device. And with Claude it can handle your coding sessions.
mghfreud 20 minutes ago [-]
How do you use iPad for coding?
wiseowise 12 hours ago [-]
And you forgot the best part: it is completely silent.
tcoff91 5 hours ago [-]
The quiet isn’t even the best part of passive cooling. It’s that the cooling will never stop working due to dust clogging fans.
hbs18 3 hours ago [-]
Surely the thermal paste will degrade at some point, right?
refactor_master 8 hours ago [-]
Still baffles the mind that Apple solved this issue some 20+ years ago, and others _still_ haven't. I remember being basically surrounded by jet engines running Word in school.
A few years ago in an old job I got a monster-specced Dell laptop, and it would still roar if I opened anything. I had to pull all the nerf tricks through the BIOS to at least keep it somewhat tolerable in low-load scenarios (i.e. most of the workday).
AnthonyMouse 3 hours ago [-]
A fanless CPU needs more, lower-clocked cores to have the same multi-thread performance as an actively cooled CPU with fewer cores, and higher core count CPUs cost more. So you only get a fanless CPU if you either a) get a low multi-thread performance CPU or b) pay for a high-performance CPU and then get only medium performance out of it by running it fanless. Notice that even Apple's highest performance laptops have fans; fanless there isn't a thing.
But Apple's fanless machines do b) and then they just charge you the premium. There are a few fanless PC laptops that do the same thing, but most people don't want that, because they'd rather save a significant amount of money by getting the same performance out of a less expensive CPU with a fan.
freehorse 10 minutes ago [-]
This is oversimplified. It is sustained multithreaded performance that brings throttling with fanless cpu. Anything for a short enough amount of time is fine, and sustained single threaded stuff is also fine. Bursts are also fine. A lot of work that people do on a computer is fine. Fanless doesn't really hurt unless you process large amounts of data in parallel for some time. Performance in a cpu does not only show in this kind of tasks.
I have used both airs and the max versions of macbooks, and the airs are embarrassingly on par for too many things. I understand it may be hard to believe, but one can do actual, serious work on a macbook air.
Of course one could say that having a fan is always optional anyway (like the older 13" macbook pro was mostly an air with a fan) and in these types of tasks you may barely hear it. But still I prefer the peace of not ever hearing a fan for my to-go laptop.
wqaatwt 4 hours ago [-]
> Apple solved this issue some 20+ years ago
All the i7/i9 Macbook pros that I used back in the day were obnoxiously load. Even when not under particularly heavy load.
socalgal2 52 minutes ago [-]
I wish I lived in the reality. My 2014 MBP and 2019 MBP’s fans come on quick and loud
SXX 26 minutes ago [-]
Apple silicon is only been around for 5+ years, but people tend to forget how bad Intel macs overheated, throttled and hand tons of other thermal related issues.
epistasis 11 hours ago [-]
I did forget, because a silent laptop is now table stakes for me. I can't imagine buying anything with an audible fan again. I'd rather stay on the hardware I have.
bee_rider 5 hours ago [-]
I wouldn’t want a fan on a Windows laptop, for sure. On Linux they are fine as long as the lowest speed is “off,” since they’ll only kick on if you explicitly ask the computer to do something crunchy.
teaearlgraycold 11 hours ago [-]
I appreciate a light whoosh from a laptop.
overfeed 60 minutes ago [-]
No fan = leaving performance on the table due to lacking thermal headroom.
wiseowise 34 minutes ago [-]
If I wanted maximum performance I would use a desktop.
HerbManic 5 hours ago [-]
I have no problem if it is the occasional spin up, but it is rare to have system that can do just that.
My Thinkpads seem to only use the fan occasionally but then my work load is very light.
davnicwil 12 hours ago [-]
a bit of an aside but what's amazing is that Docker's recent beta VM for Mac (I think released a couple of months ago now) has dramatically improved the performance you get out of your CPU.
Using a macbook air, even a recent one, before this Docker was definitely usable but noticably slower. Probably still worth it but a noticable tradeoff using it as a dev machine Vs a pro. Now that tradeoff has basically gone away.
stodor89 11 hours ago [-]
Entry-spec M1 Air is the best computer ever made.
I can't stand Apple, but it's the truth. I used one sporadically to build my stuff for Mac. Going back to my Windows workstation after that always felt like travelling 15 years back in time. I recommended M1 Air to everyone whose workflow was compatible with a Mac. Most of the people who acted on that recommendation still use it and don't really think about upgrading.
paustint 10 hours ago [-]
I had a ton of issues with my Macbook pro M1 16GB, memory pressure would be in the yellow always and into red frequently which caused sound stutter and all sorts of issues.
My M1 air (I think 8GB?) had similar issues
My M2 24gb was amazing - especially since it allowed dual monitors.
I recently upgraded to the M4 32GB and it is my "do everything" computer and is absolutely awesome.
My personal experience with the m-series is that get as memory as possible. I do feel the M1 had issues based on the couple I owned.
EDIT: Even on 32GB my memory pressure is constantly in the yellow, but have not seen it go to red
astrange 9 hours ago [-]
Memory pressure sort-of means something sort-of doesn't. It's certainly possible that critical pressure could cause audio issues, but it could also be impossible to ever notice.
More importantly you shouldn't be experiencing audio stalls, so complain in the feedback app if you do.
interludead 5 hours ago [-]
My concern with the Neo is that it may have the same "feels impossible for the price" quality early on, but the 8GB ceiling gives it much less room to become the kind of absurd long-lived machine your Air turned into
invalidSyntax 3 hours ago [-]
You can't change the RAM, so using it as a student, and then use it as a reliable sub pc in the future might make it last long.
elAhmo 22 minutes ago [-]
Similar story here, I used the original M1 Air 8GB for for years, still in same great condition without any flaws. I did get a M4 Air last year because I just needed more than one display and wanted to work in a docked mode, and I have similar feelings with this machine too.
SXX 30 minutes ago [-]
Mine M1 Air display just failed after 5+ years out of the blue like worked at night and stopped in morning and even pre-used LCD assembly cost $200-300. So repairing makes no financial sense.
Yet considering the price I've paid for it like $0.5 per day and used it daily for 10-16 hours a day. Pretty much like phones I use except I use them much less and drop them often unlike a macbook.
skiing_crawling 3 hours ago [-]
I bought a 8gb m1 air just a few days ago to use as a travel laptop. The 8gb gives me memory anxiety coming from my 48gb m4, but it did force me to turn off some settings I never liked (siri, spotlight indexing) and I also discovered zed, ghostty, and orbstack to replace vscode, iterm, and docker desktop.
The memory limit is probably in my head now, it does pretty well as long as I'm not obsessing over activity monitor.
tim333 2 hours ago [-]
I also got a M1 Air 8gb, bought 2021 and it's good but there's been various hardware go wrong - screen packed up, usb ports packed up, speakers knackered, battery says service. I think 10 years use would require quite a lot of fixing on mine.
satvikpendem 11 hours ago [-]
I wouldn't be embarrassed, Apple computers hold their value and performance for a remarkable amount of time, and that was even before Apple Silicon, which, as I'm still running an M1 Pro machine, will last quite a while, another several years yet.
donkeylazy456 4 hours ago [-]
I have m1 pro mbp with 32gig ram too. I've never thought to upgrade my laptop and still.
rootnod3 11 hours ago [-]
Same. Recently bought myself a M2 Air as a birthday gift for myself. 8GB, chucked OpenBSD on it and couldn't be happier. It does what I need, battery lasts long and easy to chuck around.
locusofself 10 hours ago [-]
TIL you can run OpenBSD on apple silicon. With how much effort has gone into Asahi Linux, I'm surprised.
Rediscover 8 hours ago [-]
OpenBSD has had support for a bit over four years (v7.1, though the earlier v7.0 had /some/ support).
Only M1 and M2 machines though. M3 and up is still missing.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
Running anything on Apple Silicon is result of Asahi Linux effort.
jrmg 10 hours ago [-]
It has no graphics acceleration, right? Doesn’t windowing feel sluggish?
rootnod3 54 minutes ago [-]
99% of the time I run dwm + emacs, most of the browsing in eww. The occasional 1% that I run a browser is negligible. The scrolling lag doesn't bother me too much. I basically run it as a distraction free machine with long battery life.
No temptation to open Youtube or other distractions.
Just an emacs session with code and notes. Forcing myself to read the man-pages first before googling anything.
kevmo314 5 hours ago [-]
Same, the Apple silicon chips have been huge.
I bought a 2019 Intel MBP and that was by far the worst laptop I've ever had. After just a year of use it was constantly overheating and running out of memory and disk space, barely able to open a terminal. It was so bad that I hesitated to buy the Apple silicon versions, but the good reviews convinced me and it has been going strong ever since.
Gigachad 4 hours ago [-]
Since the M1, macbooks pretty much hit "good enough". I've got a 2021 macbook and a top of the line 2025 model from work as well. But the experience using them is pretty much exactly the same, the newer one is many multiples the performance, but my old one does everything instantly. So I can't tell the difference just using it normally.
tomwphillips 3 hours ago [-]
I was in a similar boat with my M1 Pro. I have an M4 Pro for work but rarely notice the difference.
Unfortunately the display in my M1 has failed and a replacement is £500-700. Very frustrating.
tracker1 12 hours ago [-]
I bumped up to 16gb ram and more storage... it's still running great for when I use it, which is not much tbf... I mostly use my desktop because my vision has gotten exceedingly bad the past few years and my 45" desktop displays are significantly easier for me to read and use... I can kind of manage with the M1 display set to max size/scale... but many apps and sites are problematic.
Fr0styMatt88 4 hours ago [-]
Have you tried the screen zoom in accessibility settings? The responsiveness is great with the trackpad gestures.
tracker1 4 hours ago [-]
I haven't... Should probably look into it. I always hated Windows full screen zoom... But I regularly use the triple tap zoom in Android. I'll look into it next time.
s0rce 12 hours ago [-]
I had an M1 pro with the touchbar thing that I bought used for <$1000 after I had to give my work one back when I changed jobs. It was the best upgrade I ever made. I cracked the screen and bought a M4 air on black friday for $750 or something which I'm using now.
steve_adams_86 12 hours ago [-]
I have a 2017 MacBook Air that's still going strong and will certainly hit 10 years. It definitely won't hit another 9 years after that, though... The keyboard doesn't have that much life left in it, and I won't be repairing it.
interludead 5 hours ago [-]
I think 8GB is harder to defend in 2026 than it was in 2020, but maybe Apple's low-end machines may be staying useful long after the spec sheet says they shouldn't...
Gigachad 4 hours ago [-]
Ram is massively more expensive in 2026 than it was in 2020. And the tasks the average person does hasn't changed in that time. I think it could be a good thing that Apple is setting a baseline that your apps should run with 8gb, there isn't a good reason you couldn't work with that amount.
lifestyleguru 3 hours ago [-]
> And the tasks the average person does hasn't changed in that time.
Absolutely untrue. Your 2020 CV makes you completely unemployable in 2026.
wlesieutre 13 hours ago [-]
> The I/O is also a genuine limitation: one USB 2.0 port is functionally useless for data transfer, no Thunderbolt means no fast external storage, and charging occupies your only USB 3 port.
You're supposed to use the USB-2 port for charging and save the USB-3 port for external accessories, not the other way around
It only supports 10Gb/s compared to 40 that USB-4 is theoretically capable of, but that's more than enough for anyone in the $600 laptop market.
njovin 5 hours ago [-]
Anecdotally, and as a big fan of Apple laptops, I've had so much trouble with their USB and SDCard hardware when it comes to data transfer that I wonder if I'm cursed or if I'm crazy.
Transferring a about a dozen GB of data over USB3 is a crapshoot depending on the drive you have. Even amongst name-brands with similar advertised speeds, some thumb drives are basically useless with my 2024 MBP and I've had similar issues with a previous 2015 MBP model. The transfer speeds will be so slow as to be considered unusable.
On the 2024 MBP, using ANY microsd card adapter with any microsdcard causes the card to immediately overheat, and the card will never be properly usable by the OS. Only full-size SDCards work.
I've seen some posts about this elsewhere, but it seems to me like one of the few peripherals on this expensive piece of kit being incompatible with the vast majority of the hardware it's supposed to work with would be kind of a big deal.
chocochunks 12 hours ago [-]
Yeah, but that USB 3 port has to do a lot of heavy lifting. It 's also the only video out port making decent dongles a necessity. On a $600 PC it's not uncommon to have USB A (at 3.0 speeds), HDMI in addition to USB C and maybe even Ethernet.
Gigachad 4 hours ago [-]
>making decent dongles a necessity
I used a macbook air all throughout school, I never once owned a dongle or even plugged the thing in to an external monitor. My requirements were something that could run photoshop/illustrator and chrome. If I ever transfered something over USB it was a 300kb docx file or something else that would have copied instantly at 2.0 speeds.
I think there's a huge problem of tech enthusiasts projecting their own requirements on to a device that is designed for a very different person, and then declaring it unfit for use. Apple prioritized things that actually matter to students like battery life, lightness, price, and hinges that don't snap after the first year. Rather than tons of super fast IO and 32gb ram.
grey-area 4 hours ago [-]
This cheap laptop is not for people with external displays. Almost everyone buying this would have no desire for an external display, they wouldn’t even feel this as a limitation.
If you want a separate display or super fast data transfers, more usb ports or more than 8MB of RAM buy one of the more expensive laptops.
happyopossum 10 hours ago [-]
> On a $600 PC
Yes, but it is uncommon for a $600 PC to have a beautiful screen, great trackpad, metal case, and top notch build quality. Also, the neo performs really really well.
giantrobot 5 hours ago [-]
A multi-port USB-C hub is about ten dollars on Amazon. If a Neo owner really needs additional ports they're a few bucks. For a vast majority of Neo owners the lack of ports is a non-issue and for the others that occasionally need the extra ports they're cheap.
I doubt there's many Neo buyers that really needed multiple Thunderbolt ports but decided to pick up the $600 entry level machine instead.
storus 12 hours ago [-]
Both 10Gb/s and 8GB RAM limit come from iPhone 16 Pro chip limitations used in Neo. Next year's should have 12GB of RAM.
HDBaseT 10 hours ago [-]
If they can maintain the same price tag for A19 based Macbook Neo with 12GB of RAM, I genuinely do not know how other companies can compete.
bombcar 10 hours ago [-]
I’m waiting for the first A chip designed after the Neo decision - it’ll be interesting to see what they do knowing it’ll end up in a laptop. The obvious thing is “fixing” the USB problem.
stirlo 12 hours ago [-]
It’s a bizarre take.
It’s not functionally useless, it supports a mouse, keyboard, printer or even an iPhone (non pro) perfectly fine at full speed. It also probably has enough speed for the average cheap terrible quality USB drive that the buyer of a $600 PC might have.
This is a Silicon Valley tech geek take not a real world one.
retired 12 hours ago [-]
The assortment of cheap USB sticks I have do not surpass 400mbit/sec. Not even the ones labeled USB3.0 or High Speed.
mycall 6 hours ago [-]
That is good enough speed for plenty of use cases.
sixhobbits 6 hours ago [-]
"genuinely" is an AI tell now as well as doing things in physical world that don't make sense like walking to the car wash to wash your car if it's close, or maybe not using USB ports in the way they were designed...
zitterbewegung 11 hours ago [-]
Sometimes on HN while this is technically correct I wonder if Mac users will truly notice. This is probably a limitation of the A19 chip. Many people just see the price tag and buy.
jorisw 4 hours ago [-]
Yep. For me it was a perfect gift to replace moms 10+ year old Intel based MacBook Air.
interludead 5 hours ago [-]
I agree that for the actual target market, 10Gb/s is probably not the thing that will make the machine feel limited
teaearlgraycold 11 hours ago [-]
USB 2.0 speeds are still fine for 99% of my USB transfer needs.
washingupliquid 12 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dang 10 hours ago [-]
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
The computer pops up a warning if you plug a fast device into the slow port, which is a lot more informative for the average user than a tiny label that most users wouldn’t even read.
Labels would be nice, I guess, but their absence is hardly a dealbreaker.
washingupliquid 11 hours ago [-]
Windows has been showing popup USB speed warnings since at least Windows XP.... so 25 years?
Let's not use this cope to mislead anyone into thinking this is a unique Mac innovation (it isn't) that trumps this abomination of human factors (it doesn't).
coder543 11 hours ago [-]
I have never ever seen Windows provide this warning even once just because there is a faster port on the machine and the user plugged the device into the wrong one. Please provide a source for this claim that you are making. Citation absolutely needed.
In the unlikely case that this feature exists thanks to Microsoft, I would like to say that is great, because it is much more user friendly than only having tiny labels. But since I’ve never seen this feature work before, it seems to me that it must be broken, if it exists at all.
wlesieutre 10 hours ago [-]
These warning messages do exist, at least for if your computer supports USB4 but not on that port, or thunderbolt / DP alternate mode but not on that port
You get a message on screen that you should be using the other port.
But yes, labeling should have been better. One of the USPs of MacBooks is that all USB ports are the same. Unlike other computers where you have to look where you are plugging it in. The Neo breaks that tradition.
QuercusMax 5 hours ago [-]
That was definitely not the case on one of the macbooks I had, which wouldn't charge properly on the right side if recall. Maybe one of the last Intel macbook pros?
_aavaa_ 12 hours ago [-]
Do you think those same users know the difference between usb3, usb4, and thunderbolt (or even that all three exist)? More over, do you think they know how to tell cables apart for the three?
washingupliquid 12 hours ago [-]
$150 netbooks solved this by labeling the ports "SS" or using blue USB-A inserts, but those are matters inferior PC users have to deal with.
fredoliveira 12 hours ago [-]
I legitimately have no idea what "SS" means next to a port, and I've seen it plenty of times. Labeling doesn't solve everything. The message on screen that you get when you plug something into the wrong port on the Neo is, obviously, much better because it assumes nothing about the user's knowledge except for the ability to read.
wlesieutre 11 hours ago [-]
SuperSpeed, but you’re not supposed to use that as a consumer facing label anymore
> NOTE: USB4® Version 2.0, USB4® Version 1.0, USB 3.2, SuperSpeed Plus, Enhanced SuperSpeed and SuperSpeed+ are defined in the USB specifications however these terms are not intended to be used in product names, messaging, packaging or any other consumer-facing content.
USB-IF’s recommended name for this port is now just “USB 10Gbps”
Not that I would expect an average consumer to understand that as a label, but at least it takes up less space and allows relative comparisons better than USB 3.0 SuperSpeed+ or whatever the old equivalent was.
> I legitimately have no idea what "SS" means next to a port
surströmming
auguzanellato 12 hours ago [-]
> it assumes nothing about the user's knowledge except for the ability to read.
Sometimes I question whether some users have that ability
HDBaseT 11 hours ago [-]
Most people can read; it’s comprehending what they just read that’s the deal-breaker.
madars 12 hours ago [-]
USB 3.0 was marketed as SuperSpeed USB. SS-marked ports should give you 5Gbit/s, compared to 480 Mbps USB 2.0.
rco8786 12 hours ago [-]
I feel confident in saying that I am better at computers than 99.99% of the general population and I have no clue what “SS” or blue USB ports are supposed to indicate.
washingupliquid 12 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
retired 11 hours ago [-]
Apple never colored their ports because up until the Neo all ports were the same speed. No need to distinguish them.
washingupliquid 11 hours ago [-]
No need to distinguish ports when you can remove them all instead.
Schiendelman 12 hours ago [-]
"Solved" - hardly. No one knows what those symbols mean.
wlesieutre 12 hours ago [-]
Apple should show users an alert when they plug a USB-3 device into the USB-2 port because they are visually identical
I don't know the details of Apple's silicon designs, but I assume the USB port bandwidth is because this is using the chip from iPhone 16 Pro, a phone which of course had a single USB-3 port. They've done what they can with it to hit the price point.
The alternative was to not include a second USB port for charging, in which case people would be bitching about it not being able to use peripherals while charging like the last time they made a single port laptop.
11 hours ago [-]
maccard 11 hours ago [-]
This is why standardising in USB c the connector was a mistake.
quietthrow 4 hours ago [-]
Apple makes unbelievably good hardware and software that just lasts and just works. Until it’s 7 years old. After that you essentially have to chuck it as you don’t get any updates from Apple and slowly you descend into incompatibility unless you world exists in browser.
I wish once you bought an Apple computer it was truly yours for as long as you wanted it instead of it being dictated by Apple.
Still Great computers though.
d1sxeyes 4 hours ago [-]
It is yours for as long as you want it, and it (mostly) runs all the software it was compatible with when you first bought it (there are some quirks around software you had access to but didn't install, like Garageband, where you may no longer be able to access the original version). Stuff doesn't just 'stop working', as a rule, but the rest of the world does move on. I'm not sure what you think should be done about that? All software should always be backwards compatible with older versions forever?
As a reasonable alternative, you can stick Linux on it and it'll run nicely, although with a different set of software to what you got the laptop with. 2026 is the year of the Linux Desktop!1! (in all seriousness though, it is actually quite good by now).
gib444 2 hours ago [-]
> Stuff doesn't just 'stop working'
They didn't say that. In fact they said the total opposite
> As a reasonable alternative, you can stick Linux on it and it'll run nicely
Somewhat true for Intel
Not so true for Apple Silicon (Asahi are only upto M2 I think?)
keiferski 4 hours ago [-]
I bought a 2015 iMac last year for 100 euros at a thrift store. It’s a bit slow but works fine for YouTube etc. And the computer itself basically looks good as new - the screen is really beautiful.
Thinking I’ll try and install Linux on it at some point.
nolist_policy 1 hours ago [-]
As a data point: Chromebooks get 10 years of updates.
dmos62 2 hours ago [-]
Fruit Construction Inc. makes great houses. Wish you could own them, but really great houses.
havaloc 14 hours ago [-]
I bought a Neo as an out of the house computer and it really is a triumph. If the Air is good enough for 99% of the population, the Neo as is approaches good enough for 90% of the population at half the cost.
interludead 5 hours ago [-]
As an out-of-the-house computer, or a second/hand-me-down laptop, that tradeoff makes a lot more sense
headcanon 14 hours ago [-]
My wife bought a Neo and has been very happy with it. I was wary of the 8gb memory limit but she is running claude code doing web development with a reasonable number of tabs open and no noticeable lag, so I'd say its definitely getting a lot of mileage out of it.
It honestly seems good enough that it might cannibalize Macbook Air sales.
crazygringo 14 hours ago [-]
It might be more likely that it cannibalizes used Macbook Air sales.
GeekyBear 12 hours ago [-]
After years of incremental upgrades to the Airs, a new entry level M5 Air gives you double the RAM, double the storage, and double the CPU and GPU performance of an M1 Air.
Hopefully used Airs will come up for sale more frequently, as they remain a step up from the Neo.
adastra22 12 hours ago [-]
At double the price.
SXX 52 minutes ago [-]
I'm in no way Apple fan, but M5 air with 512GB SSD and 32GB RAM costs $1500. Compared to M1 and 256GB and 16GB at $1200.
Adjusted for inflation it pretty much the same.
GeekyBear 12 hours ago [-]
Sure.
Used M1 Airs are selling for roughly half the price of a new Neo.
Octoth0rpe 13 hours ago [-]
which seem to be out of stock in any case, so probably not a loss for apple.
I am running Claude Code, Claude Desktop, Codex and Docker Desktop on a last generation Intel Air, that admittedly has 12 GB RAM. One has to be a bit careful with more apps. But I look forward to an upgrade. Maybe a Neo, but more likely a second hand M.
bombcar 10 hours ago [-]
Whatever you do, do not try one out before you’re ready to buy.
majorchord 11 hours ago [-]
How on Earth did you find a wife who codes? Asking for a friend.
pvdebbe 46 minutes ago [-]
GP expressly said the wife does not code: she uses claude.
tomcam 9 hours ago [-]
I can top that (he said bitterly). My wife is still gorgeous after 30+ years of marriage and is a 10x programmer. But she was happy when given the choice not to work when we married, and hasn’t touched a compiler in decades.
I did well in business, but the family joke is that I’d be a billionaire if I could have monetized her.
jorisw 4 hours ago [-]
> There’s also a silver lining to the tight memory envelope: Apple has to keep macOS running well within 8GB, which is actually a nice forcing function against bloat and inefficiency. We could all use a little more of that.
Love this
dlcarrier 4 hours ago [-]
Eight gigabytes is orders of magnitude more than an OS could ever use, or even the pre-installed software. It's web browsers and the software that uses them that occupy all the RAM, and those are usually made by third parties.
Open a few news web pages, and run Discord, Slack, VS Code, etc, and you'll quickly run out of RAM.
HPsquared 4 hours ago [-]
Ironically these are all text-based applications where the actual content on screen is in the order of a few hundred bytes. They've managed to reach a bloat factor of one million.
Affric 3 hours ago [-]
Tragic
nwienert 3 hours ago [-]
If you decry bloated web apps and use Chrome on their Mac... there's Safari. It's far more efficient and has a far snappier UI.
dlcarrier 2 hours ago [-]
There's also Epiphany web browser for cross-platform desktop support and the Fulguris browser for Android.
It is noticeably faster, but Chrome is the new Internet Explorer in more ways than one, and many web pages don't work in WebKit browsers.
Oreb 2 hours ago [-]
Posts like this makes me feel like I’m using a different World Wide Web than everybody else. Where are all these pages that don’t work in WebKit browsers?
I use Safari as my main browser, I open Chrome only when I encounter a web site that doesn’t work in Safari. It happens maybe once or twice per year, and half of the time, it turns out that it doesn’t work in Chrome either.
ttoinou 2 hours ago [-]
Chrome is the most advanced browsers on each platform. For example I have hundreds of tabs
And chrome is the best at saving up RAM in the backgrouns
dlcarrier 2 hours ago [-]
It's just closing the older tabs and re-rendering them from cache, when returned to. WebKit does the same thing.
That reminds me of Microsoft's Active Desktop in Windows 98, when the desktop had widgets that were web pages and would show webpage-related errors when something went wrong. We've really gone full circle over the last three decades.
throwaway27448 3 hours ago [-]
It's not so much "full circle" as we never came up with a better way to render general purpose rich text content than html/css to begin with
dlcarrier 3 hours ago [-]
It's not really using it for much text, though. It's mostly buttons and controls, which GDI, QuickDraw, and Motif did much better back then and newer toolkits like GTK, Tk, wxWidgets, DWM, Cocoa, etc are great at today.
throwaway27448 3 hours ago [-]
Web browsers come preinstalled and come embedded throughout the os.
But, webkit is much better than chrome in memory usage. If only we could force slack and vs code to use the engine better suited for the job.
sho_hn 4 hours ago [-]
I occasionally port software I make to MacOS, while mainly being a Linux user, and I settled on a base model, 8 GB M2 Mac Mini for this as well. If it's zippy there, it'll be zippy on the larger models.
On the PC/Linux side I keep an old thermally-constrained i5 Sony Vaio ultrabook with a lowly 4 GB from 2015 around for the same reason.
The main dev box is a Ryzen 9950X3D/128 GB monster, so it's a bit of a difference :)
nicce 3 hours ago [-]
Meanwhile GitHub tab in Firefox/Chrome eats 6GB RAM alone.
himata4113 3 hours ago [-]
because they decided that running elasticsearch on your machine is a great idea!
DANmode 2 hours ago [-]
GitHub, GitHub…where else have I seen that name recently?
nicoburns 14 hours ago [-]
The Neo is pretty great, and the compromises are totally reasonable at the price point. But if they do a second generation with A19 Pro (and thus 12GB RAM) and a slightly better cooling system then it would really be fantastic.
tracker1 12 hours ago [-]
You can use a small thermal pad on the current Neo to bridge to the case, which helps with temps quite a bit.
steve_adams_86 12 hours ago [-]
I do this with my old 2017 MacBook Air and while the case gets pretty hot, it reduces throttling on the old Intel processor a lot. It felt like a new computer after replacing the thermal paste and adding that pad.
tracker1 12 hours ago [-]
Apparently the neo doesn't really get hot enough to really notice to the touch with the pad to the case.
baal80spam 14 hours ago [-]
> if they do a second generation with A19 Pro
I'm pretty sure it's a "when", not "if".
nicoburns 13 hours ago [-]
Probably true. I hope they do it next year, but I suspect it might the following one.
adastra22 12 hours ago [-]
Idk, I think they are regretting the unit economics of the Neo, and it is likely cannibalizing the Air sales.
tracker1 12 hours ago [-]
Maybe some... but they're likely picking up a lot of people that would have gone with a $500-700 windows laptop instead.. and the margins are similar, so they're probably well ahead.
QuadmasterXLII 12 hours ago [-]
intentionally cannibalizing their own sales is iirc the official apple policy: iphone destroyed ipod and was one of the best business mives of all time
adastra22 12 hours ago [-]
iPhones were more expensive than iPods though
SecretDreams 10 hours ago [-]
I miss the iPod right now lol. Give me a nano!
SecretDreams 10 hours ago [-]
If they can use this product to lock more people into their ecosystem it'll work. As a lifelong windows/android user, I've been eyeing up the neo.
Also, the Neo is just cheap enough that it's a product I'd consider buying that I don't need. I'm not in the market for a new laptop and certainly not an Air. So I'm a demographic considering this product that is not going to cannibalize their existing sales. There's gotta be at least a dozen people like me!
adastra22 5 hours ago [-]
Do it. I've used Windows, Linux, and macOS over the years. Apple may be walled garden, but damn do they take care of their garden. It's worth trying out.
ant6n 3 hours ago [-]
It’s a nice hardware. But that garden is full of bugs, not much less than if you have open windows.
habosa 10 hours ago [-]
Macbook Neo is amazing, so impressed what Apple can deliver for so little.
That said, my sister this morning asked if she should buy a Macbook Neo. I pointed her to a refurb M2 Macbook Air with 16GB of RAM for the same price. I feel like that's the right call? Slower single-core performance but better multi-core and I think for 90% of normal people use cases the RAM is the limit before the CPU.
Are others making the same calculation?
alirezaxdehghan 20 minutes ago [-]
M2 Air with 16GB is the logical choice, especially if she doesn't have a habit of breaking/dropping laptops because probably she won't get apple care with a user air.
havaloc 9 hours ago [-]
I think I would cut the line at M3 or above. I think M2 uses an older architecture and it doesn't have WiFi 6E in it, and of course single core is a bit lower. Also M2 batteries are about maybe halfway done already unless the refurb replaced the battery.
Scrounger 5 hours ago [-]
> Also M2 batteries are about maybe halfway done already unless the refurb replaced the battery.
My mom still uses a 2019 Macbook Air with 8GB of RAM. The battery requires servicing, but she's unaware and still using it just fine. I asked her to go to the Apple Store and get the battery replaced along with her iPhone 12 Pro Max battery, and she'll easily get 10 years out of each device.
omgwtfbyobbq 7 hours ago [-]
It depends on the benchmark/workload. There isn't much of a difference per core between the M1 (3.7k) and A18 pro (4k) based on passmark, but I'm sure the A18 does much better in AI/similar stuff.
bombcar 10 hours ago [-]
If the used ones are out there the more RAM is probably the way to go - but colors!
The reality is nobody is noticing differences between the M1 and anything afterwards, really - those that do will know enough to pick their laptop.
Fannon 5 hours ago [-]
While I got me a 16GB Macbook Air, I appreciate that Apple continues to make 8GB devices. This indicates for me also a commitment for not bloating up the OS (like Windows did) too much and caring about memory efficiency.
majorbugger 1 hours ago [-]
I don't understand this logic. You can live with 8 GB but there is nothing to "appreciate". It's enough for some stuff but totally short for other stuff.
briandw 14 hours ago [-]
We just bought the Neo for our daughter to use at school. My biggest concern was the trackpad. This is the first MacBook to not use a force touch trackpad since they were introduced. I must say that the new trackpad is really good. It's not quite as good as the force touch one in my MacBook Pro, but it's close. We will see how well the Neo holds up over time, but it's off to a good start.
codazoda 14 hours ago [-]
I never use the physical touch on the MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. It’s one of the first things I configure so that a light tap is a click. It somehow feels “faster” to me.
mmoustafa 2 hours ago [-]
how do you select text?
nicoburns 13 hours ago [-]
The trackpads on the old (pre-force-touch MacBooks) were really good. The force-touch is (IMO) slightly better, but it's a slight difference.
georgel 11 hours ago [-]
I'll agree they were all great, but I liked the change to force-touch more.
The uni-body pre force-touch trackpads clicked on a hinge from the top and you would need to press much harder in that area.
auguzanellato 12 hours ago [-]
It’s certainly better than most trackpads on non Macs, especially because it “clicks” ok even on the top part.
sgt 14 hours ago [-]
I've had many MacBook Pros but never thought about that. I guess mine has too. How do I use it? I just tap lightly to click.
dylan604 14 hours ago [-]
pretty much the only time I use it is to lookup the definition of a word by highlighting it and force clicking. Can't do that with the magic mouse.
sgt 59 minutes ago [-]
Interesting. I find it easier just to CTRL-click it and pressing down on a flat surface.
RubberShoes 14 hours ago [-]
I still have AnandTech in a prime spot on my bookmarks toolbar. I miss the site so much and welcome any reviews like this that attempt to capture their level of detail when reviewing a product.
sysworld 13 hours ago [-]
You tried arstechnica? they do pretty good reviews.
I feel like I end up stumbling on the charging cable at least one or two times. Plus, I wouldn't be able to re-use the old Macbook charger I have :(
iknowstuff 2 hours ago [-]
Just buy a magnetic usb-c cable if it’s very important to you
Keyframe 4 hours ago [-]
I understand the premise and it might be cool, but it does feel weird when your 6 year old playstation has more RAM than your laptop. Heck, even Nintendo Switch 2 has more RAM.
palata 54 minutes ago [-]
Does it? If you browse the web and run Excel, it makes sense to me that you wouldn't need the same specs as when running video games?
IMO developers should be forced to run on such computers, such that they would care a little bit about optimisation.
pantulis 2 hours ago [-]
Love how the post begins praising Anandtech, then proceeds to write the rest of the content as if it was written by Anand himself. Great nod!
caycep 13 hours ago [-]
it also looks really nice. at the Apple Store, the chassis seems well machined. the "cheaper" apple logo insert also clearly also incurred some expense as it fit into the lid perfectly. Hinge, keyboard and trackpad felt good. Design team clearly took time to telegraph craft and quality in their product.
kristianp 9 hours ago [-]
I wish the author had toned down the chatgpt style of the writing. e.g. headers that say "What You’re Getting for $599". Another example: "Read those numbers again. The same chip that posts 3,569 single-core when cold delivers 476 after five minutes of sustained load. That is an 87% reduction in single-core performance on the same hardware, running the same benchmark, separated by nothing but heat."
zozbot234 4 hours ago [-]
That second phrase did not feel too ChatGPT-like to me. The throttling behavior really does feel quite extreme and unprecedented as described, more typical of a mobile phone than a traditional PC. By analogy, even the crappiest and cheapest mobile PCs will not go as far as throttling the processor from a nominal 3.6 GHz to 480 MHz after five minutes of CPU-intensive load.
tobyhinloopen 2 hours ago [-]
This article feels written by Claude
mmoustafa 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
adastra22 10 hours ago [-]
> If Apple had branded the A18 Pro as “M4 Lite,” nobody would have blinked.
Apple fumbled the ball here. They should have called it the "M4 Mini", and this device the "MacBook mini".
Also, OP: Have you considered doing this professionally? I'd read this as the next AnandTech.
josephg 10 hours ago [-]
"Mini" usually denotes physical size. Is the neo physically smaller than the air?
adastra22 9 hours ago [-]
Smaller, yes. Not thinner.
isaisabella 4 hours ago [-]
I take Max Neo as a toy computer. Maybe a good choice for those non-tech users, cuz it's enough for they daily use: writing docs, watching videos, etc. A good marketing product.
Havoc 11 hours ago [-]
Recently dived into mac world (air) too after decades of win/linux.
Pleasant experience and very impressed by hardware and polish except wow the keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed.
Who decided that sometimes its cmd+Q to close a window while other times its cmd+W and some apps support both but with different behaviours and knowing which of the three it is depends on knowing what's an OS window (but not all OS windows)? Or why is taking a screenshot of an area to clip it a FOUR key combo with one of them being a random number (the key 4). I can definitely memorize it and get used to it, but were the designers high as a kite when it was shortcut design day?
larkost 11 hours ago [-]
The cmd+q is the "quit" command. And the convention in single-window apps (or ones that have a single unambiguous main window) is that the window only closes when the app is quit. So this is command you have to give.
For "document-based" apps (think almost anything where you open multiple files), the application can stay running even if there are no open windows. So you have both cmd+q and cmd+w available to you.
You can probably come up with some apps that don't cleanly fit these two, but that is what Apple has.
As to screen shot commands, it is a three-key chord because it is system-wide, and they did not want to step on any toes that the apps might have. And there are a few versions:
shift-command-3 takes the entire screen
shift-command-4 takes either a window or a section (press space bar to switch between them)
shift-command-5 opens a more menu-based system that includes a timer
Why 3, 4, and 5 (and not 1 or 2)... I don't know. Maybe there was something in those spots at some point.
kalleboo 10 hours ago [-]
Command - Shift - 1 was "Eject Floppy Disk in Drive 1" and Command - Shift - 2 was "Eject Floppy Disk in Drive 2". I kid you not, that's how old these keyboard shortcuts are, they date back to the 80's.
afzalive 11 hours ago [-]
> keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed
You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app). You don't even need to memorize them.
When I first switched to Mac after using Ubuntu for 4 years before that, I didn't expect this level of customization. It's misunderstood because Apple doesn't advertise this.
Havoc 11 hours ago [-]
>You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app)
That's actually my other complaint. "Fixing" problems with the OS with mystery apps.
Connected an external mouse. Mouse wheel is inverted...weird? Google it. Yeah you can toggle it. Thank goodness. Apple knew people use mice. Oh but that inverts the trackpad too. WHAT? You're joking. I need to pick between a sane trackpad and sane mouse? I own both and need both to work to work in a not upside down manner.
Climb onto an AI and ask it what to do because this is insanity like surely not this can't be how it is. LLM goes yeah no that's just macos you need to install a mystery app to unfuck it.
Don't get me wrong my overall experience is positive and there has been the expected learning curve which is fine ofc, but also a fair bit of "what the actual F how are people OK with this".
gumby271 7 hours ago [-]
This one was shocking to me too. I get the argument around the upside down trackpad, but inverting the mouse wheel with no built in open is insane. I also have a mystery app who's only just is to correct this stupid behavior.
ralfd 11 hours ago [-]
cmd-W closes windows and cmd-Q quits the App. That Apps can stay open without having a Window is actually useful (at least it makes sense to me).
@screenshot
Mac has always been kind of amazing for the granular options you get to take screenshots out of the box.
• Command - Shift - 3 | Takes a fullscreen pic of the entire display. Loads a preview in the bottom right corner. Click to expand, and from there edit, share, save, delete, etc.
• Command - Shift - 4 | Turns your mouse cursor into a crosshair. Drag to create a rectangular window. Takes a capture of the contents when done. Escape or right-click to cancel. Preview loads the same as above.
• Command - Shift - 5 | Brings up a rectangular section that can be moved around and resized.
But any shortcut can be remapped:
Go to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Screenshots
Havoc 11 hours ago [-]
>cmd-W closes windows and cmd-Q quits the App.
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
mercutio2 9 hours ago [-]
Cmd-W closes the current *document*. In tabbed apps, the document is the tab.
It is true that Finder is always running, you can’t quit it or kill it.
GeekyBear 11 hours ago [-]
The standard behavior is that:
Command Q quits the currently active application.
Command W closes the current window without quitting the active application.
Havoc 11 hours ago [-]
>Command Q quits the currently active application.
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
>Command W closes the current window
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
>standard behavior
It isn't and its a tribute to human adaptability to chaos that mac crowd thinks this is standardization
happyopossum 10 hours ago [-]
> Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
> Safari
Multiple tabs in a window are intended to be treated the same as multiple windows. This has been the case since macOS made tabbed interface components a standard part of the OS.
> Open Apps
What do you mean? Which apps?
Havoc 9 hours ago [-]
>You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
That's what google told me after I set out to discover what rules are behind the inconsistency. The solution to inconsistent shortcuts is apparently memorizing which parts of the software that is PREINSTALLED is considered part of the OS and which parts are not.
>Which apps?
Not apps small a...Apps big A...the thing apple macs ship with on the dock and literally entitled "Apps". That baked into the default install window just behaves differently from both finder style built in OS things and Safari also built in but different built in not part of OS. Why? I don't fuckin know. Neither Q nor W make it go away. OK so hit esc. Does that make the window go away? It turns it into a smaller window that now performs a different function?!?!? Spotlight. OK so now i need to memorize what is an preinstalled OS window, preinstalled not os window, preinstalled not os window not app window but some sort of launcher I guess?
So a new user is basically guessing which of THREE keys combos may or may not make the window go away or possible do nothing or do something else entirely (close tab).
I feel like I'm being gaslight by all the hn users telling me yeah that makes sense
subarctic 11 hours ago [-]
I'm so used to macos now that I don't even realize that this is confusing. What OS did you use before, windows? is there no distinction between quiting an app and closing a window on windows?
y1n0 11 hours ago [-]
What app doesn’t support cmd-w?
para_parolu 11 hours ago [-]
Some apps close window. Some apps close tabs. Some apps can close tab or window. Some apps require double press (chrome)
happyopossum 10 hours ago [-]
That’s chrome being a dick - it chrome has an option to undo that (and it’s cmd-q they dickified, not cmd-w).
Havoc 11 hours ago [-]
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
As an outsider it boggles my mind that apple crowd doesn't notice how all over the place macos shortcuts are.
trollied 14 hours ago [-]
The “8gb gamble” could be seen as a misleading headline.
The review is very fair - it’s an amazing bit of kit for the money.
armanj 14 hours ago [-]
for vibe coding stuff, especially when you're outside touching grass, I believe MacBook Neo is perfect. it fills the gap between the phone remote control (which is too painful for chatting with ai cli) and, well, not having any dev device.
weezing 14 hours ago [-]
Do people really do that when out in the wild?
jlokier 13 hours ago [-]
It's one of the nicest things to do if you love computers, and great for your health compared with staying indoors.
> Could one actually work like this, typing and everything? After my “heart-rate discovery” I decided I had to try it. I thought I’d have to build something myself, but actually one can just buy “walking desks”, and so I did. And after minor modifications, I discovered that I could walk and type perfectly well with it, even for a couple of hours. I was embarrassed I hadn’t figured out such a simple solution 20 years ago. But starting last fall—whenever the weather’s been good—I’ve tried to spend a couple of hours of each day walking outside like this
You get an Apple product. At least, for me it was that simple. The ThinkPad I had was pretty high end, and I was using polarized glasses and even a sun shade to work at the park while the girls played. Bought a MacBook and the screen seems to crisply outshine even the sunniest days -- I haven't had to worry about outdoor use since, to my recollection.
Schiendelman 12 hours ago [-]
+1 to this. Those screens are great in ways that specs just don't show you.
jlokier 11 hours ago [-]
Back when I did much work outside, I used a laptop that had accidental transflective characteristics. In bright sunlight, the LCD actually become quite clear monochrome, with some pixels acting as mirrors and others not, but I don't think they designed the LCD to do that.
redman25 10 hours ago [-]
I'm not OP but I work outside and use light mode. Macs are generally fairly bright as long as you aren't in direct sunlight. Solarized light mode for the win though.
gib444 13 hours ago [-]
Moving to the UK is one option. It's been cloudy for about 7 months!
wiseowise 12 hours ago [-]
LLM addicts do. The AI overlord said to touch grass, because it is beneficial, but they've glanced over the main part of "disconnect from everything".
zozbot234 11 hours ago [-]
It can't run LLMs very well, you'll be limited to tiny models with no coding ability and they'll be slow.
armanj 11 hours ago [-]
i assumed you're connected to internet and using codex/claude code
timpera 13 hours ago [-]
I'm pretty disappointed in the Neo's battery life though, it limits a lot how much you can do on the go.
bombcar 10 hours ago [-]
How fast can it recharge is probably the main limiting factor. I’m used to finding power wherever I can from the bad old days, but the M1 laptops have spoiled me.
karel-3d 45 minutes ago [-]
I wanted to ask "hm is 8GB that bad for coding? I don't use that much anyway" and now I look at my Activity Monitor and I somehow use 22GB, I don't know why.
Why is Rust Analyzer running and taking 2GB? I don't even write in Rust. Each Electron app takes 300-400MB and for some reason Ghostty takes 400 MB... ok I take it back, I couldn't use 8GB.
khernandezrt 14 hours ago [-]
Id pay an extra $150 for the haptic trackpad tbh
deely3 5 hours ago [-]
How about $299?
lynguist 3 hours ago [-]
Seriously what is this ugly engagement optimized LLM slop of an article doing here yet again on the HN front page?
I love the Neo as much as any other enthusiast, so yes, the subject matter is subjectively “cool”.
But this “article” is indigestible. Not only it regurgitates the same thing over and over (and it has links to other articles on the same page where they already did the same), on top of that the writing style, content, intentionality does not exist in the slightest. I feel like having been offered chocolate, but having received artificial cocoa flavored petrochemicals.
yokoprime 2 hours ago [-]
The author appears to have done actual measurements and put in the work. I agree that the article probably has been run through an LLM, but as long as there's actual new (for me!) information, i don't really care
orliesaurus 13 hours ago [-]
What if you cool the chassis really really well??? Does throttling go away?
> tl;dw Copper shim mod (using laptop bottom as heatsink) leads to 2x performance over stock.
system7rocks 12 hours ago [-]
I may buy a Neo just to do this. Intrigued.
sbinnee 12 hours ago [-]
12gb bump soon? I don’t see that happening. It’s Apple.
happyopossum 10 hours ago [-]
$600 laptop? I don’t see that happening. It’s Apple.
teaearlgraycold 11 hours ago [-]
The A19 Pro has 12GB. I would bet on an upgrade to that 2 years after release, but a one year update is possible.
bombcar 10 hours ago [-]
I’ve heard rumors that they’ve run out of A18s and had to pay special for more, so it’ll be interesting to see how they handle this going forward.
conception 13 hours ago [-]
I think the only gap I’ve come across is that trying to drive two monitors through a display link dock it doesn’t really have the GPU to not have that be laggy.
notfried 14 hours ago [-]
Why is the author considering Claude Code a "real developer workflow"? Unless you're doing complex tool calling, is CC really resource-heavy?
xnx 14 hours ago [-]
Why does a "real developer workflow" need to be resource-heavy?
jujube3 11 hours ago [-]
I am heavy developer guy.
bombcar 10 hours ago [-]
and this is my developer. She consumes one hundred fifty gigabytes and runs two hundred thousand dollar, custom-tooled GPUs at ten thousand tokens per minute. It costs four hundred thousand dollars to develop…for twelve seconds.”
[Laughs]
“Oh my Claude, who touched settings.json? Alright…Who touched my LLM!?”
sannysanoff 13 hours ago [-]
IDE written in Java indexing 10K files, compiling + running spring boot apps that take 30 seconds to start on the M4, or C++ compilation, or rust compilation.. Or maybe you were sarcastic?
fastball 13 hours ago [-]
Yes, Claude Code can use a lot of RAM.
karmakaze 12 hours ago [-]
> Apple has to keep macOS running well within 8GB, which is actually a nice forcing function against bloat and inefficiency. We could all use a little more of that.
Hmm, I have a very different understanding of how Apple uses forcing functions. Prematurely slowing iPhones with older batteries regardless of charge level as a forcing function to upgrade is what I take away. When the 12GB Neo's are out, I expect another bit of bloat in Liquid Glass or other to motivate the upgrade.
avidruntime 12 hours ago [-]
Apple's throttling was an undisclosed optimization that was controversial because it was not disclosed. The optimization itself was not controversial. It was not premature either. If the battery's measurable levels (impedance, current, voltage, etc.) fell out of nominal range, then throttling occurred. FWIW I somewhat resent having to 'defend' Apple here, but your narrative frame here has too much speculation for a situation finalized in fact in 2017, almost 10 years ago.
astrange 9 hours ago [-]
It wasn't an "optimization", it's because aging batteries have unstable voltage and the phone was likely to shut down otherwise.
bigfudge 5 hours ago [-]
That is an optimisation for stability of the phone over its lifetime.
guideamigo 13 hours ago [-]
This might win big in emerging markets where there is a desire for a high-quality laptop for non-programmers.
11 hours ago [-]
fragmede 14 hours ago [-]
The question thus, is how does the Neo perform if I put it on top of an ice pack?
orliesaurus 13 hours ago [-]
Yup, was wondering the same, that would be a great follow up article by author
Applejinx 13 hours ago [-]
Or mod it so it burns your junk but makes you the heatsink :D
tracker1 12 hours ago [-]
A lot of people have used a thermal pad to bridge the CPU to the case.. it doesn't really get that hot, and you get a >5% performance bump.
interludead 5 hours ago [-]
The most interesting part of this is the 8GB RAM decision. Soldered 8GB in 2026 is the sort of compromise that looks fine on day one and painful in year three
SXX 43 minutes ago [-]
It's not "soldered". It's literally part of SOC package as it's comes out of TSMC lines. Using exactly the same iPhone chip is kind a the only reason they can target this price target.
Hate to defend Apple here, but there are so many more garbage laptops out there for the same price tag that can as well just go directly into landfill. Apple at least have the volume to make sure Mac software actually works on said 8GB.
If Apple manage to decrease market share of other e-waste manufacturers it's good on me. At least these laptops will live 5-7 years as we browser machines.
charpit 4 hours ago [-]
[dead]
p0w3n3d 5 hours ago [-]
[dead]
dickywad 11 hours ago [-]
[dead]
rebekkamikkoa 14 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
lifestyleguru 13 hours ago [-]
I already have half dozen over decade old laptops with 4-8GB of RAM in the drawer, don't need any more.
justin66 13 hours ago [-]
> Yes, 8GB of RAM is a real limitation. But give it a year and the next version will almost certainly ship with 12GB and a modest CPU bump.
We'll be able to have six browser tabs open instead of four?
mmaniac 33 minutes ago [-]
You can have as many as you like, but Safari will kill them when you're not looking.
simonh 3 hours ago [-]
According to some reviews I’ve seen, it tops out at around 60.
Rendered at 10:14:04 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
It remains in perfect condition and as delightful to use as the day I bought it (Apple software snafus notwithstanding). I fully expect to get at least 10 years use out of it. Honestly, I feel like it could probably carry him all the way through school - but I’d be embarrassed to say that out loud since that’s another 9 years.
I'm not sure I'll need another computer anytime soon. Even though the kids jumped on it once when I left it on the couch for a few minutes, bending the case on one side of the keyboard. It bent back mostly flat. Gives it a bit of personality.
Never before has $1099 (or whatever) of hardware gone so far for me.
A few years ago in an old job I got a monster-specced Dell laptop, and it would still roar if I opened anything. I had to pull all the nerf tricks through the BIOS to at least keep it somewhat tolerable in low-load scenarios (i.e. most of the workday).
But Apple's fanless machines do b) and then they just charge you the premium. There are a few fanless PC laptops that do the same thing, but most people don't want that, because they'd rather save a significant amount of money by getting the same performance out of a less expensive CPU with a fan.
I have used both airs and the max versions of macbooks, and the airs are embarrassingly on par for too many things. I understand it may be hard to believe, but one can do actual, serious work on a macbook air.
Of course one could say that having a fan is always optional anyway (like the older 13" macbook pro was mostly an air with a fan) and in these types of tasks you may barely hear it. But still I prefer the peace of not ever hearing a fan for my to-go laptop.
All the i7/i9 Macbook pros that I used back in the day were obnoxiously load. Even when not under particularly heavy load.
My Thinkpads seem to only use the fan occasionally but then my work load is very light.
Using a macbook air, even a recent one, before this Docker was definitely usable but noticably slower. Probably still worth it but a noticable tradeoff using it as a dev machine Vs a pro. Now that tradeoff has basically gone away.
I can't stand Apple, but it's the truth. I used one sporadically to build my stuff for Mac. Going back to my Windows workstation after that always felt like travelling 15 years back in time. I recommended M1 Air to everyone whose workflow was compatible with a Mac. Most of the people who acted on that recommendation still use it and don't really think about upgrading.
My M1 air (I think 8GB?) had similar issues My M2 24gb was amazing - especially since it allowed dual monitors. I recently upgraded to the M4 32GB and it is my "do everything" computer and is absolutely awesome.
My personal experience with the m-series is that get as memory as possible. I do feel the M1 had issues based on the couple I owned.
EDIT: Even on 32GB my memory pressure is constantly in the yellow, but have not seen it go to red
More importantly you shouldn't be experiencing audio stalls, so complain in the feedback app if you do.
Yet considering the price I've paid for it like $0.5 per day and used it daily for 10-16 hours a day. Pretty much like phones I use except I use them much less and drop them often unlike a macbook.
The memory limit is probably in my head now, it does pretty well as long as I'm not obsessing over activity monitor.
OpenBSD 7.1, 2022-04-21 -- https://www.openbsd.org/71.html
R/AsahiLinux posting from around that time, only one comment -- https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/comments/u8rb2o/openbsd_...
No temptation to open Youtube or other distractions.
Just an emacs session with code and notes. Forcing myself to read the man-pages first before googling anything.
I bought a 2019 Intel MBP and that was by far the worst laptop I've ever had. After just a year of use it was constantly overheating and running out of memory and disk space, barely able to open a terminal. It was so bad that I hesitated to buy the Apple silicon versions, but the good reviews convinced me and it has been going strong ever since.
Unfortunately the display in my M1 has failed and a replacement is £500-700. Very frustrating.
Absolutely untrue. Your 2020 CV makes you completely unemployable in 2026.
You're supposed to use the USB-2 port for charging and save the USB-3 port for external accessories, not the other way around
It only supports 10Gb/s compared to 40 that USB-4 is theoretically capable of, but that's more than enough for anyone in the $600 laptop market.
Transferring a about a dozen GB of data over USB3 is a crapshoot depending on the drive you have. Even amongst name-brands with similar advertised speeds, some thumb drives are basically useless with my 2024 MBP and I've had similar issues with a previous 2015 MBP model. The transfer speeds will be so slow as to be considered unusable.
On the 2024 MBP, using ANY microsd card adapter with any microsdcard causes the card to immediately overheat, and the card will never be properly usable by the OS. Only full-size SDCards work.
I've seen some posts about this elsewhere, but it seems to me like one of the few peripherals on this expensive piece of kit being incompatible with the vast majority of the hardware it's supposed to work with would be kind of a big deal.
I used a macbook air all throughout school, I never once owned a dongle or even plugged the thing in to an external monitor. My requirements were something that could run photoshop/illustrator and chrome. If I ever transfered something over USB it was a 300kb docx file or something else that would have copied instantly at 2.0 speeds.
I think there's a huge problem of tech enthusiasts projecting their own requirements on to a device that is designed for a very different person, and then declaring it unfit for use. Apple prioritized things that actually matter to students like battery life, lightness, price, and hinges that don't snap after the first year. Rather than tons of super fast IO and 32gb ram.
If you want a separate display or super fast data transfers, more usb ports or more than 8MB of RAM buy one of the more expensive laptops.
Yes, but it is uncommon for a $600 PC to have a beautiful screen, great trackpad, metal case, and top notch build quality. Also, the neo performs really really well.
I doubt there's many Neo buyers that really needed multiple Thunderbolt ports but decided to pick up the $600 entry level machine instead.
It’s not functionally useless, it supports a mouse, keyboard, printer or even an iPhone (non pro) perfectly fine at full speed. It also probably has enough speed for the average cheap terrible quality USB drive that the buyer of a $600 PC might have.
This is a Silicon Valley tech geek take not a real world one.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Labels would be nice, I guess, but their absence is hardly a dealbreaker.
Let's not use this cope to mislead anyone into thinking this is a unique Mac innovation (it isn't) that trumps this abomination of human factors (it doesn't).
In the unlikely case that this feature exists thanks to Microsoft, I would like to say that is great, because it is much more user friendly than only having tiny labels. But since I’ve never seen this feature work before, it seems to me that it must be broken, if it exists at all.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/u...
It will warn you if you're charging over the slower to charge port, though.
https://superuser.com/questions/1022542/windows-10-display-a...
But yes, labeling should have been better. One of the USPs of MacBooks is that all USB ports are the same. Unlike other computers where you have to look where you are plugging it in. The Neo breaks that tradition.
> NOTE: USB4® Version 2.0, USB4® Version 1.0, USB 3.2, SuperSpeed Plus, Enhanced SuperSpeed and SuperSpeed+ are defined in the USB specifications however these terms are not intended to be used in product names, messaging, packaging or any other consumer-facing content.
USB-IF’s recommended name for this port is now just “USB 10Gbps”
Not that I would expect an average consumer to understand that as a label, but at least it takes up less space and allows relative comparisons better than USB 3.0 SuperSpeed+ or whatever the old equivalent was.
https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_data_performance...
surströmming
Sometimes I question whether some users have that ability
Oh wait https://i.imgur.com/7HWgxZ1.png
I don't know the details of Apple's silicon designs, but I assume the USB port bandwidth is because this is using the chip from iPhone 16 Pro, a phone which of course had a single USB-3 port. They've done what they can with it to hit the price point.
The alternative was to not include a second USB port for charging, in which case people would be bitching about it not being able to use peripherals while charging like the last time they made a single port laptop.
I wish once you bought an Apple computer it was truly yours for as long as you wanted it instead of it being dictated by Apple.
Still Great computers though.
As a reasonable alternative, you can stick Linux on it and it'll run nicely, although with a different set of software to what you got the laptop with. 2026 is the year of the Linux Desktop!1! (in all seriousness though, it is actually quite good by now).
They didn't say that. In fact they said the total opposite
> As a reasonable alternative, you can stick Linux on it and it'll run nicely
Somewhat true for Intel
Not so true for Apple Silicon (Asahi are only upto M2 I think?)
Thinking I’ll try and install Linux on it at some point.
It honestly seems good enough that it might cannibalize Macbook Air sales.
Hopefully used Airs will come up for sale more frequently, as they remain a step up from the Neo.
Adjusted for inflation it pretty much the same.
Used M1 Airs are selling for roughly half the price of a new Neo.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac
I did well in business, but the family joke is that I’d be a billionaire if I could have monetized her.
Love this
Open a few news web pages, and run Discord, Slack, VS Code, etc, and you'll quickly run out of RAM.
It is noticeably faster, but Chrome is the new Internet Explorer in more ways than one, and many web pages don't work in WebKit browsers.
I use Safari as my main browser, I open Chrome only when I encounter a web site that doesn’t work in Safari. It happens maybe once or twice per year, and half of the time, it turns out that it doesn’t work in Chrome either.
But, webkit is much better than chrome in memory usage. If only we could force slack and vs code to use the engine better suited for the job.
On the PC/Linux side I keep an old thermally-constrained i5 Sony Vaio ultrabook with a lowly 4 GB from 2015 around for the same reason.
The main dev box is a Ryzen 9950X3D/128 GB monster, so it's a bit of a difference :)
I'm pretty sure it's a "when", not "if".
Also, the Neo is just cheap enough that it's a product I'd consider buying that I don't need. I'm not in the market for a new laptop and certainly not an Air. So I'm a demographic considering this product that is not going to cannibalize their existing sales. There's gotta be at least a dozen people like me!
That said, my sister this morning asked if she should buy a Macbook Neo. I pointed her to a refurb M2 Macbook Air with 16GB of RAM for the same price. I feel like that's the right call? Slower single-core performance but better multi-core and I think for 90% of normal people use cases the RAM is the limit before the CPU.
Are others making the same calculation?
My mom still uses a 2019 Macbook Air with 8GB of RAM. The battery requires servicing, but she's unaware and still using it just fine. I asked her to go to the Apple Store and get the battery replaced along with her iPhone 12 Pro Max battery, and she'll easily get 10 years out of each device.
The reality is nobody is noticing differences between the M1 and anything afterwards, really - those that do will know enough to pick their laptop.
The uni-body pre force-touch trackpads clicked on a hinge from the top and you would need to press much harder in that area.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/03/apple-macbook-neo-re...
I feel like I end up stumbling on the charging cable at least one or two times. Plus, I wouldn't be able to re-use the old Macbook charger I have :(
IMO developers should be forced to run on such computers, such that they would care a little bit about optimisation.
Apple fumbled the ball here. They should have called it the "M4 Mini", and this device the "MacBook mini".
Also, OP: Have you considered doing this professionally? I'd read this as the next AnandTech.
Pleasant experience and very impressed by hardware and polish except wow the keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed.
Who decided that sometimes its cmd+Q to close a window while other times its cmd+W and some apps support both but with different behaviours and knowing which of the three it is depends on knowing what's an OS window (but not all OS windows)? Or why is taking a screenshot of an area to clip it a FOUR key combo with one of them being a random number (the key 4). I can definitely memorize it and get used to it, but were the designers high as a kite when it was shortcut design day?
For "document-based" apps (think almost anything where you open multiple files), the application can stay running even if there are no open windows. So you have both cmd+q and cmd+w available to you.
You can probably come up with some apps that don't cleanly fit these two, but that is what Apple has.
As to screen shot commands, it is a three-key chord because it is system-wide, and they did not want to step on any toes that the apps might have. And there are a few versions: shift-command-3 takes the entire screen shift-command-4 takes either a window or a section (press space bar to switch between them) shift-command-5 opens a more menu-based system that includes a timer
Why 3, 4, and 5 (and not 1 or 2)... I don't know. Maybe there was something in those spots at some point.
You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app). You don't even need to memorize them.
When I first switched to Mac after using Ubuntu for 4 years before that, I didn't expect this level of customization. It's misunderstood because Apple doesn't advertise this.
That's actually my other complaint. "Fixing" problems with the OS with mystery apps.
Connected an external mouse. Mouse wheel is inverted...weird? Google it. Yeah you can toggle it. Thank goodness. Apple knew people use mice. Oh but that inverts the trackpad too. WHAT? You're joking. I need to pick between a sane trackpad and sane mouse? I own both and need both to work to work in a not upside down manner.
Climb onto an AI and ask it what to do because this is insanity like surely not this can't be how it is. LLM goes yeah no that's just macos you need to install a mystery app to unfuck it.
Don't get me wrong my overall experience is positive and there has been the expected learning curve which is fine ofc, but also a fair bit of "what the actual F how are people OK with this".
@screenshot
Mac has always been kind of amazing for the granular options you get to take screenshots out of the box.
• Command - Shift - 3 | Takes a fullscreen pic of the entire display. Loads a preview in the bottom right corner. Click to expand, and from there edit, share, save, delete, etc.
• Command - Shift - 4 | Turns your mouse cursor into a crosshair. Drag to create a rectangular window. Takes a capture of the contents when done. Escape or right-click to cancel. Preview loads the same as above.
• Command - Shift - 5 | Brings up a rectangular section that can be moved around and resized.
But any shortcut can be remapped:
Go to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Screenshots
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
It is true that Finder is always running, you can’t quit it or kill it.
Command Q quits the currently active application.
Command W closes the current window without quitting the active application.
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
>Command W closes the current window
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
>standard behavior
It isn't and its a tribute to human adaptability to chaos that mac crowd thinks this is standardization
You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
> Safari
Multiple tabs in a window are intended to be treated the same as multiple windows. This has been the case since macOS made tabbed interface components a standard part of the OS.
> Open Apps
What do you mean? Which apps?
That's what google told me after I set out to discover what rules are behind the inconsistency. The solution to inconsistent shortcuts is apparently memorizing which parts of the software that is PREINSTALLED is considered part of the OS and which parts are not.
>Which apps?
Not apps small a...Apps big A...the thing apple macs ship with on the dock and literally entitled "Apps". That baked into the default install window just behaves differently from both finder style built in OS things and Safari also built in but different built in not part of OS. Why? I don't fuckin know. Neither Q nor W make it go away. OK so hit esc. Does that make the window go away? It turns it into a smaller window that now performs a different function?!?!? Spotlight. OK so now i need to memorize what is an preinstalled OS window, preinstalled not os window, preinstalled not os window not app window but some sort of launcher I guess?
So a new user is basically guessing which of THREE keys combos may or may not make the window go away or possible do nothing or do something else entirely (close tab).
I feel like I'm being gaslight by all the hn users telling me yeah that makes sense
As an outsider it boggles my mind that apple crowd doesn't notice how all over the place macos shortcuts are.
The review is very fair - it’s an amazing bit of kit for the money.
> Could one actually work like this, typing and everything? After my “heart-rate discovery” I decided I had to try it. I thought I’d have to build something myself, but actually one can just buy “walking desks”, and so I did. And after minor modifications, I discovered that I could walk and type perfectly well with it, even for a couple of hours. I was embarrassed I hadn’t figured out such a simple solution 20 years ago. But starting last fall—whenever the weather’s been good—I’ve tried to spend a couple of hours of each day walking outside like this
https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-prod...
https://quantifiedself.com/blog/stephen-wolfram-finds-workin...
Why is Rust Analyzer running and taking 2GB? I don't even write in Rust. Each Electron app takes 300-400MB and for some reason Ghostty takes 400 MB... ok I take it back, I couldn't use 8GB.
I love the Neo as much as any other enthusiast, so yes, the subject matter is subjectively “cool”.
But this “article” is indigestible. Not only it regurgitates the same thing over and over (and it has links to other articles on the same page where they already did the same), on top of that the writing style, content, intentionality does not exist in the slightest. I feel like having been offered chocolate, but having received artificial cocoa flavored petrochemicals.
> tl;dw Copper shim mod (using laptop bottom as heatsink) leads to 2x performance over stock.
[Laughs]
“Oh my Claude, who touched settings.json? Alright…Who touched my LLM!?”
Hmm, I have a very different understanding of how Apple uses forcing functions. Prematurely slowing iPhones with older batteries regardless of charge level as a forcing function to upgrade is what I take away. When the 12GB Neo's are out, I expect another bit of bloat in Liquid Glass or other to motivate the upgrade.
Hate to defend Apple here, but there are so many more garbage laptops out there for the same price tag that can as well just go directly into landfill. Apple at least have the volume to make sure Mac software actually works on said 8GB.
If Apple manage to decrease market share of other e-waste manufacturers it's good on me. At least these laptops will live 5-7 years as we browser machines.
We'll be able to have six browser tabs open instead of four?