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Claude Fable 5 (anthropic.com)
eggbrain 1 hours ago [-]
For those of us on subscription plans:

* From today through June 22, Fable 5 is included on Pro, Max, Team, and seat-based Enterprise plans at no extra cost.

* On June 23, we’ll remove Fable 5 from those plans. Using it after that will require usage credits. If capacity allows, we’ll extend the included window.

* After this point—when sufficient capacity allows us to do so—we aim to restore Fable 5 as a standard part of subscription plans. We intend to do this as quickly as we can.

The "offer, then remove" aspect is a bit eyebrow-raising -- it feels like they are trying to get subscribers to switch to usage-based billing, which makes me wonder if we'll ever get it after that June 22nd window.

jrflo 1 hours ago [-]
Still satisfied with my switch to codex/chatgpt. I couldn't imagine switching away from claude code when it first launch but with the drastically more generous usage on codex for the same subscription tier I just can't justify it.
sigbottle 28 minutes ago [-]
Codex IME is just smarter, I think it shows given both anecdotes but also how OpenAI has always been at the front of programming competitions and math problems.

But Claude models seem to be better at long term problems or more ambiguous problems.

I'm curious as to what the primary benefit here. Are there secret improvements in training? There hasn't been much in fundamental model architecture, I don't think. What about harnesses? I wonder what's pushing the AI. It seems like harnesses is the main thing pushing AI ever since CoT.

Spartan-S63 11 minutes ago [-]
I find that OpenAI's agentic tools and models are better for building human-maintainable software. Meanwhile, Anthropic seems to be cosplaying Apple while missing out on all the exceptional engineering required to create something that polished. Their admission of predominately using Claude with little human oversight and their stealth mode is an indictment of a poor engineering culture, from what I can surmise.
greenavocado 3 minutes ago [-]
How smart a model is varies hour over hour, tracked over here: https://aistupidlevel.info/
rvshchwl 6 minutes ago [-]
I've found Codex to be the better subscription for OpenClaw, because the limits are indeed very generous. However, I've found more and more that Claude Routines/Scheduled agents can replace all the tasks I use OpenClaw for, so I've been slowly switching over to Claude Code. Aside from OpenClaw, I don't find a lot of value in Codex as a harness on it's own.
wsatb 58 minutes ago [-]
I guess enjoy it while it lasts? OpenAI won't be able to subsidize that forever either.
windexh8er 9 minutes ago [-]
Agreed. I think the Chinese labs are proving that OpenAI and Anthropic don't have a moat in almost every aspect, especially pricing. I also think people are getting annoyed with the constant lift and shift. I've seen more folks drop Claude Code and Codex, specifically, because of the lock-in it provides the providers. I'm curious to see how people standardize on tooling adjacent and if Anthropic, Google or OAI move to block utilization akin to the games Anthropic has been playing as of late.

I think the end game is routed model usage and SLMs. I think Apple is going to prove this in the consumer space pretty handily and I'm curious how the Android ecosystem responds since the hardware is considerably lacking in model performance. I think Apple has a huge opportunity here, as much as I don't like their current ecosystem of walled garden. They did position themselves very well with ARM and custom chips for their hardware. Hopefully the broader ecosystem of ARM and Linux are able to make some headway and we see a more formalized, and broadly accepted, architecture to capitalize on.

flatline 45 minutes ago [-]
I don't think anyone has a firm grasp on actual inference costs -- including the research and training that has gone into those models. We've got near-frontier capabilities from open source models from China at pennies on the dollar compared to US big tech rollouts. OpenAI and Anthropic are heavily subsidizing their inference -- no wait, they are charging the most they can get away with before going public. Where is the truth?
andrewmutz 27 minutes ago [-]
Both can be true. They can be charging what the market will bear, and still be charging less than their costs of running it.
dontlikeyoueith 5 minutes ago [-]
> OpenAI and Anthropic are heavily subsidizing their inference -- no wait, they are charging the most they can get away with before going public. Where is the truth?

Both. They are charging the most they can get away with and that amount is still heavily subsidized by VC capital.

MichaelMedbed 39 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
kllrnohj 25 minutes ago [-]
regardless of whether that's true or not, US companies doing hosted inference of the models coming out of China are also significantly cheaper than those from OpenAI or Anthropic
polski-g 32 minutes ago [-]
Not relevant to the post.
ChrisMarshallNY 38 minutes ago [-]
I'm planning on switching from the $20/month to the $100/month plan.

It's worth it, and I can afford it, but I am not really the right type of user for token-based usage. It's all for personal and free work.

rnxrx 3 minutes ago [-]
I have the $100 plan and had almost never run out of credits until I started using the ultracode / workstreams feature w/Opus 4.8..at which point I managed to blow the full 6 hour allocation in like 20 minutes, or so. In fairness, it did some amazing things with the extracted information, but it also strongly suggested that I'd need the $200 subscription *plus* a budget for extra usage.
micah94 13 minutes ago [-]
Just a personal anecdote but I have not hit any more thresholds or limits since switching to the MAX plan and so far, it's been worth it. But I do wonder how long even this will last...
andai 25 minutes ago [-]
A few weeks ago they massively cut usage on free tier.
knuckleheads 38 minutes ago [-]
I feel like Codex made a big push to run everything on your laptop. With Claude, I get 4 cpu's, a fair amount of ram and 30gb for every one of my dumb ideas for free in the cloud containers. Codex used to be similar, but last time I tried it just kept pushing me to run it locally on my laptop, which I really did not want to do with 20 requests going at once. That's the main advantage for me at the moment.
simjnd 29 minutes ago [-]
What runs in cloud containers? The dev servers, builds, etc.? I tried to quickly glance at the Claude website and it doesn't mention cloud containers on their pricing page.
dd8601fn 39 minutes ago [-]
I have trouble justifying gpt after that gross stuff with the war department.

Though the day is coming when there’s no distinguishing, I’m sure.

shimman 29 minutes ago [-]
I've only ever had the $20 month claude plan but last night took the time to setup opencode + openrouter paying for deepseek + glm. Previous experience, while extremely awkward, I'd hit my limit within one or two chat replies and it'd take me like 4 limit cycles to complete my task. Now I'm able to complete an equivalent task entire task for less than $2 in two cycles (ask -> revise).

I'm doing basic web development here utilizing animejs. Nothing too complicated (mostly saving time doing the scaffolding, still write the bulk of animations manually).

Truly believe that American companies are going to get completely curb stomped by China due to greed, ineptitude, and violating the social contract.

simjnd 27 minutes ago [-]
I've switched from OpenRouter to using Deepseek directly from their platform since OpenRouter providers were pretty flaky and inconsistent.

Deepseek V4 Flash is suprisingly capable and insanely cheap. It takes so much to get the session cost to get to $0.01.

nozzlegear 20 minutes ago [-]
> and violating the social contract.

I agree with you on pricing, but what do you mean by this?

irthomasthomas 2 minutes ago [-]
This is just the sales team doing their thing, applying the law scarcity to drive demand.

It's the same exact speed as opus >=4.5, sonnet 4.5, and twice the speed of opus <=4.1

It must have about the same active parameters, or else its a larger model running in turbo mode (smaller batches) and being heavily subsidized for some reason. But given most of the benchmarks are within 5% I doubt it is a much larger model. Most perplexing.

joshstrange 9 minutes ago [-]
I would not use this if you are on a subscription. In <8min it burned my entire 5hr window (which has just reset it appears, I have over 4 hours till it resets) I hadn't used CC at all today aside from this) and then it used up ~$15 more in usage before I could stop it.

I am on the $100 Max plan.

0erofootprint 45 minutes ago [-]
For me it almost immediately blocked. I had it writing code related to message digests - and it seemed to think it was too gifted for that. Gave the security warning and switched back to 4.8. Whatever... it will probably soon have the API error soon. I have mostly switched to the Codex 200 a month plan. I've found their 5.5 xhigh to be better than Opus 4.8 "ultracode." Also, i have not once seen their servers fail for compute unavailability, unlike Anthropric which happens almost ever hour.
kkoncevicius 38 minutes ago [-]
I had a similar experience. I wanted to test it by asking it to summarise a scientific OMICs-related paper. It gave a warning about me potentially developing a bio-weapon or something like that. And switched back to Opus 4.8.
smith7018 36 minutes ago [-]
Fwiw it's not available on my enterprise account: "Disable zero data retention to unlock Fable 5 access"
stronglikedan 9 minutes ago [-]
We just blocked it at our org for this reason. They will "retain agent request and output data associated with this model, regardless of you Cursor Privacy Mode setting."
sdellis 8 minutes ago [-]
What does "zero data retention" mean? What kind of data does it need to unlock?
drakythe 2 minutes ago [-]
The announcement details it. They're storing 30 days of data on all surfaces, first and third party. They claim it is for security purposes so they can review and check for long term jailbreak and distillation efforts.

They also, FWIW, say that they've instituted new policies on their end such as logging any human access to the stored data and automated deletion after 30 days in "most" cases (with another link to a document detailing that further).

alvis 1 hours ago [-]
It’s too obvious that antropic need to find way to earn enough revenue before IPO. Claude subscription isn’t earning earning much money I bet
sdellis 4 minutes ago [-]
That's a big problem for all of the AI companies. Most people don't find the technology compelling, accurate, or ethical enough to pay for a subscription.

Why wouldn't Anthropic just wait until people start subscribing, do some kind of marketing push, or obtain some kind of other sustainable revenue stream, before they go IPO? I wonder if they see the writing on the wall with all of this and want to cash out as quickly as possible?

sigmoid10 1 hours ago [-]
I think they are just prioritizing enterprise customers, because this is were historically they made most money.
dylandevelops 6 minutes ago [-]
I agree with you here. Unfortunately, this tends to be the case, with smaller developers paying the price.
AtlasBarfed 5 minutes ago [-]
That's not how it works. They don't need revenue, they need addicts.

Specifically they need businesses that fired people and adapted their business to the products, so when the unsubsidized costs hit the businesses are forced to eat the true costs.

Yes they can't afford to give the products for free, but what is essentially happening with AI services is economic dumping, keep costs artificially low to get people to fire everybody, and then Jack the rates once they have Monopoly control

1 hours ago [-]
lisperforlife 6 minutes ago [-]
My guess is that it is a massive model similar to GPT 4.5 and $10/$50 pricing is for its output will discourage people from using it. I also read safety = nerfed.
nickandbro 1 hours ago [-]
Get them addicted then cut them off. Oldest trick in the book.
toomuchtodo 1 hours ago [-]
More of a free trial to those authenticated and qualified with existing payment. Subscription billing is going away for sure though eventually based on the economics. Token “all you can eat” is a capital furnace otherwise.

(I’m highly confident open models will eventually achieve a similar performance benchmark with distillation over time)

CuriouslyC 1 hours ago [-]
Subs lose money on individuals to get those individuals to force their companies to pay for the corporate plan. The economics are bad, but so are the economics of grocery stores selling Milk and Bananas at a loss to drive traffic, which they basically ALL do.
HDThoreaun 46 minutes ago [-]
I havent seen any evidence showing that subscriptions cost the labs money.
toomuchtodo 1 hours ago [-]
Companies don’t want to pay when the value realized does not exceed the cost.

AI Savings Misses 'Should Be Making Executives Uncomfortable,' Bain Says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48359010 - June 2026 (0 comments)

AI sticker shock hits corporate America- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48307098 - May 2026 (146 comments)

CuriouslyC 59 minutes ago [-]
What's the realized value of not losing your engineers because you're letting them use their preferred tools?
52 minutes ago [-]
toomuchtodo 58 minutes ago [-]
Retain and hire the engineers who don’t require heavy use of AI to deliver value? The current SWE job market speaks for itself. Where will you go where they will let you burn up tokens in a high cost of capital macro?

ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) is over, software engineers no longer call the shots now that there isn’t vast amounts of capital chasing yield, and that capital bidding up salaries and keeping the labor market for engineers tight.

If you are x more productive with generative AI, very shortly you are going to have to prove it with a token budget (or, if you’re lucky, an org willing to spend for on prem hardware for capped token cost, fixed capex vs uncapped opex).

The comparison is not SWE vs SWE with AI. It is SWE vs SWE with AI with a constrained token budget ($x/month) delivering the same value at the same or lower cost. If you cannot prove that you are wildly (vs marginally) more productive with the AI, why would they pay for it? Prove it.

xpct 1 hours ago [-]
I agree, this looks like their plan to wane out subscriptions. This will probably come with Opus nerfs later.
rapind 1 hours ago [-]
I just assume Opus is constantly nerfed based on capacity. I was exclusively Claude for a long time, but the inconsistency in quality, constant outages, and slow downs were too hard to work with.

I just use dumb and fast models now. I'm more engaged. I think that the higher the quality of the model, the more you tend to vibe with it, and then the more hallucinations you then miss. I'm not sure which is more productive, but I definitely burn out faster the more I vibe. At some point you're spending your time on forums, discord, or youtube instead of engaged with what you're building. Or you yak shave about your tooling and end up creating the 600th multi-agent gastown harness and blowing thousands of dollars on tokens to create it only to discover it's too expense to actually use.

dylandevelops 4 minutes ago [-]
I agree with you. The more I vibe code, the less interested I feel in what I'm building. Working with models that force me to think, especially with personal projects, helps me stay engaged and enjoy what I am doing more.
winter_blue 1 hours ago [-]
Composer 2.5 Fast that Cursor is giving away for very little has been amazing.
aplomb1026 54 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
nonethewiser 1 hours ago [-]
It's possible that they will transition to usage credits but why not take them at their word? To date they have continued to offer better and better models to their subscription plans.
timcobb 1 hours ago [-]
What's their word? Have they commented?

Upd: I meant big picture, not with respect to this model release. Where do subscriptions figure into their strategic vision. Will consumers end up paying enterprise prices in the future?

KyleJune 55 minutes ago [-]
In the blog post they say when sufficient capacity allows them to do so they aim to restore Fable 5 as a standart part of subscription plans and intend to do so as quickly as they can.
dbbk 53 minutes ago [-]
Read it again
timcobb 48 minutes ago [-]
I did, I'm not seeing anything about the future of subscriptions at Athropic.
ls612 55 minutes ago [-]
In TFA they say they intend to restore Fable 5 to subscription plans some time after June 22. That is what "take them at their word" means.
taormina 1 hours ago [-]
Those already landed! Oh, you weren't talking about 4.8?
piva00 1 hours ago [-]
Even Opus 4.7 felt like a regression from 4.6, consumed a lot more tokens while I didn't experience any substantial improvements. The company I work at simply rolled back to 4.6 on everyone's configurations, disabling the toggle for 4.7.
taormina 51 minutes ago [-]
4.6 has been my happy place for getting anything done for a while now.
xvector 1 hours ago [-]
HN needs to take a chill pill. Could it be that Mythos is expensive and they just want to give people a taste of it? I mean the alternative is not offering it at all?
8note 34 minutes ago [-]
its unclear how they can offer it broadly but only for half a month.

why do they have capacity now that they wont in a few weeks?

losvedir 8 minutes ago [-]
Break between training runs?
bigtechennui 11 minutes ago [-]
It’s offered broadly after, for more money. It’s subsidized as marketing
matheusmoreira 26 minutes ago [-]
This is really sad... I really didn't want to be priced out of these models but it looks like that's going to happen sooner rather than later.
nicce 39 minutes ago [-]
> The "offer, then remove" aspect is a bit eyebrow-raising -- it feels like they are trying to get subscribers to switch to usage-based billing, which makes me wonder if we'll ever get it after that June 22nd window.

Probably all about the IPO.

daft_pink 20 minutes ago [-]
I’m just about ready to cancel my small business 5 user plan with max licenses, because although cowork is really great. I just find OpenAI/Codex to be a lot better most of the time.
kyledrake 1 hours ago [-]
Considering their apparent nerfing of the end user plans in favor of enterprise clients, is Anthropic still the "more ethical AI company" like everybody loves to tell me all the time?

Assuming this isn't just a supply issue on their side, nothing says "ethical AI" like only allowing mega corporations to use it through cost barriers.

estearum 1 hours ago [-]
You really misunderstand what AI-doom people are worried about if you think this is anywhere near the top (or middle, or bottom) of the list of concerns.
Jackson__ 43 minutes ago [-]
If you can't trust them to act ethically on the small scale, why would you expect that to turn around once it gets to a larger much more important scale?

How many government sanctioned school bombings does it take for them to quit working with said government? For now we know that number is somewhere between infinity and 1.

estearum 38 minutes ago [-]
It literally does not register as "unethical" at any scale to have different products or prices for different customer tiers.

The question of collaboration with USG is a much more complex one, but is not the one raised above.

throwaway894345 58 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, it's positively precious to think the specific pricing strategy for consumers is the overriding ethical concern with OpenAI, etc. I don't have any particularly strong affinity to any AI company, but comparing pricing to say mass surveillance is ... something else.
kyledrake 56 minutes ago [-]
Your beautiful straw man is negated by the fact that Anthropic seems quite eager to get back on the DoD gravy train https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/blacklist...
ygjb 43 minutes ago [-]
Setting aside the simple fact that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, the reality is that regardless of how Anthropic feels, it is becoming clear that many, if not all countries regard AI developments as strategic technologies (and they should).

Anthropic needs to be at least somewhat in the good graces of a capricious administration that is already under pressure from businesses and citizens to regulate AI companies across multiple different domains, whether it's energy consumption, job displacement, military and defense applications, surveillance, etc.

If Anthropic wants to survive, they need to acquire influence with the government that most impacts them as an American company, and a massive exporter of services in the AI space to other countries, otherwise they could get locked down and locked out of the market for national security reasons.

It sucks, but sometimes the survival choice is to make an ethical compromise in hopes that you can still be around to make better decisions later.

ericmay 34 minutes ago [-]
> Setting aside the simple fact that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

This "simple" fact needs quite a bit of additional context and work. Making grandiose ethical claims like this can be countered with other grandiose claims such as the fact that there is no ethical existence under communism or socialism.

ygjb 14 minutes ago [-]
Sure. Why not, I'm bored today and waiting for some stuff to finish up :D

The fact that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism is not material to whether or not ethical existence is possible under communism or socialism. In order to survive in a capitalist society, one inherently has to make choices that require trade-offs, and those trade-offs are burdened by a history of decisions made not just by the people alive today, but our ancestors as well. Does that mean I walk around chanting "Reparations", "Land-back", or other calls to action? No, but I do acknowledge that there are unresolved issues and as a Canadian, I know we need to do more to resolve treaty issues, and environmental issues, and system discrimination. I also know that Americans need to do better to address systemic discrimination and many, many other issues. It also doesn't mean I want to give back my house, or give away all of my possessions. It just means I try to make good choices and support businesses and people that are open about the trade-offs they make and try to engage as ethically as possible.

Acknowledging those facts doesn't absolve us of responsibility, it's a framework that allows folks concerned about whether or not they are doing the right thing to accept the trade-offs that they choose to make and be responsible and accountable for those choices to themselves or their communities.

We live in a world with scarce resources. It's possible that with a foundational redesign of the global economy, and the requisite authoritarian government that would be required to force such a redesign, we could eliminate food scarcity, solve energy scarcity, and make sure that everyone has a place to live. Those trade-offs are probably not worth the ethical cost in political and physical violence required to accomplish it. We have seen the trade-offs that happen when the powerful are able to exploit communist or socialist governments. We are seeing the "late stage capitalism" impacts of allowing the powerful to exploit capitalism in democratic societies. Acknowledging that the current capitalist system has lead to the greatest prosperity for the upper echelon (financially) of humanity, and a dramatic reduction in global poverty shouldn't obscure the reality that much of that wealth comes from exploitation of people and the environment.

It's a huge problem to unwind, and we can't let the burden of every choice that we make stop us from trying to do better, but we (as in society in general) can't do better if we don't at least acknowledge the compromises we are making along the way, and try to plan to fix it in the future.

Probably a topic better suited to beer and a pub setting than HN though :P

estearum 50 minutes ago [-]
Where is your evidence that this is Anthropic backtracking on its ethical and contractual commitments rather than DOD backtracking on its blatantly illegal coercion (which it's almost certainly going to be successfully sued for)?

Talk about a strawman!

kyledrake 43 minutes ago [-]
As someone that was in Minneapolis during the ICE raids, including one where a US citizen at a nearby restaurant was thrown in prison for 3 days despite having his passport on hand because he looked asian, it's hard for me to not equivocate the ethics of AI companies actively collaborating with the Trump administration as different flavors of ice cream.
estearum 40 minutes ago [-]
Are the two analytical frameworks available to you just "black and white thinking" or "it's different flavors of ice cream?"
kyledrake 27 minutes ago [-]
Are the personal attacks really necessary to make your argument?
estearum 21 minutes ago [-]
Fair point! Edited to remove.
DonsDiscountGas 42 minutes ago [-]
I don't think offering a product under a certain set of terms obligates a company to maintain that offering forever. The bait and switch is certainly annoying but seeing as they're very upfront about it you can't say you weren't warned. Don't like it? Don't use it.
brianmcnulty 1 hours ago [-]
Why would you have ethics when you could get that IPO money instead?
wongarsu 57 minutes ago [-]
I wouldn't call Anthropic ethical. But between Anthropic and OpenAI, Anthropic is the more ethical one
37 minutes ago [-]
Maken 1 hours ago [-]
The bar is just too low.
fridder 1 hours ago [-]
More ethical in some areas, actively user hostile in others
xvector 1 hours ago [-]
Yup - who cares about x-risk or red lines for domestic mass surveillance anyways? I draw my red lines at prioritizing profitable customers when heavily resource constrained. That's the true definition of evilness!
timcobb 1 hours ago [-]
Ooof so are we thinking that in the next 6-12 months subscriptions will be replaced with paying retail like enterprise currently?
thewebguyd 30 minutes ago [-]
I certainly hope not. PAYG is not predictable enough for smaller companies or individuals. Where I work (non-tech company), PAYG would never fly. We aren't big enough for that. Of course, you can set usage budgets, but there's a pretty big difference between $200/user/month vs. the equivalent PAYG usage being closer to $1,000/user/month, if you currently use the subscription plan to its limits each week.

Going PAYG only will effectively take these tools away from a huge amount of people and accelerate the push for local LLMs.

OTOH, accelerating the push for local LLMs would also be fine with me.

CuriouslyC 1 hours ago [-]
I don't think they'll phase out subscriptions ever, their whole play has been to drive demand from the bottom up. Get engineers hooked on building with claude at home, then get them to demand the ability to use it at work, and bend over their employer with no lube.

They'll probably tighten the quotas to reign in whales though.

ygjb 34 minutes ago [-]
I doubt it, given the importance of those subscriptions for building and maintaining market awareness.

The AI landscape is changing rapidly, and with Apple announcing the option to change the AI backend, and potential requirements enable AI choices as well, similar to EU browser choice requirements (this is more reading tea leaves than any actual requirements I am aware of). The new OS changes coming to support Googlebook, and deep Copilot/AI integration into Windows will make maintaining user facing subscriptions essential for independent model developers like OpenAI, Anthropic, and Mistal to remain relevant longer term.

If the don't maintain that relevance there is increasing likelihood that they will get consumed by other companies whether it's Apple, Microsoft or Google to form a foundation for their OS, or other cloud providers.

timcobb 24 minutes ago [-]
That make sense, but what about the specific bifurcation we're seeing here of super primo models versus still good models being available to subscriptions?

It's kind of annoying not getting access to the primo model and paying 200 bucks a month. I understand 200 bucks a month is basically nothing though.

Like I don't totally understand why they'd let me have it for a couple weeks and then take it away and say I can have it but I have to pay retail and retail is like $1,000 a day.

It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all??

ygjb 7 minutes ago [-]
It's a trade-off. Every hyperscaler is buying and building compute capacity as fast as they can dodge red tape. There is limited compute capacity, and scarcity is a real thing.

As a consumer I can choose to buy subscriptions to a range of things, including $5 droplets or VMs on a broad range of cloud hosting providers. I can even buy cheap bare metal at a bunch of providers at an affordable retail rate.

I can also buy "unlimited" AI packages that will be optimized to fit the cost model from a variety of services, with different impacts, such as rolling outages when I consume a daily or hourly allotment.

Right now VC and the investor class are subsidizing the rapid evolution of the services and availability, but that VC is running out. In more traditional economies, AI would have developed and rolled out more slowly, and through metered subscriptions, with the eventual rolling out of "unlimited" packages like telephone, internet, or cell services once the market became commoditized.

We have seen a big inversion of that with the race to "win" AI marketshare. Now the true cost is being exposed, and the most competitive and capable models are hideously expensive to operate, so it makes sense that we are moving to metered billing for a utility service. If you want gas, you can buy regular or premium. If you have a premium car you definitely want the premium, but for most people regular is good.

Give it a couple of years, and the survivors will settle around fairly industry standard models of consumer grade services, pro-sumer accounts, and business/enterprise models.

Things are still shaking out, but I get the sadness. Luckily I work at a big tech company who is banging the drum on doing experimentation so I use my prosumer claude pro and other accounts at home for hobby stuff, and save my heavy lifting and potentially experimentation for work :P

aseipp 45 minutes ago [-]
They almost certainly already make a fuckload more money off API pricing than they do subscriptions, even if there might be more total subscription users. So offering subscriptions even at some loss is probably going to continue. Honestly, I'd be surprised if they even lost money on most subs; there are definitely Token Whales out there who mess up all the accounting up, though.

Realistically I think Anthropic just has insane demand but finite capacity to run models, and Fable will just make them more money if they dedicate it to API pricing. I suspect the goal here is something like: get individual engineers/PMs on their personal plans to taste Fable and then go to their meetings and say "Yes doubling the price of every single input/output token is a good idea, boss".

timcobb 13 minutes ago [-]
But I don't want to be the developer who goes and says we must pay all this money for these tokens. I don't know who wants to be that developer.
DonsDiscountGas 45 minutes ago [-]
I expect that depends on demand, feedback, and whether GPT-6.0 gets released and is competitive
clementg 1 hours ago [-]
I really don't want this to start being the norm
baggachipz 1 hours ago [-]
I don't see how it won't be. They lose insane amounts of money on subscription plans. I'm sure they still lose money on usage-based billing, but probably not as much.
JumpCrisscross 1 hours ago [-]
> They lose insane amounts of money on subscription plans

Do we know this? I’ve seen evidence they lose money on heavy users. But so do gyms.

saaaaaam 55 minutes ago [-]
How do gyms lose money on heavy users? A heavy gym user isn’t really costing the gym anything extra as far as I can see.
JumpCrisscross 53 minutes ago [-]
> How do gyms lose money on heavy users?

Most gyms sell more subscriptions than they can fit under their roof at one time. If a gym only sells to heavy users, it will either be constantly turning members away or have to buy more equipment. Its equipment will wear off faster. Depending on amenities, it will go through towels, soap, water, et cetera faster, too.

tripleee 32 minutes ago [-]
Gym equipment lasts 10+ years in a commercial gym, at $50/mo that's a minimum of $6k paid from a single person.

Unless they're really, seriously wasteful with the soap.. there's no chance a gym is losing money on a heavy user

rafram 11 minutes ago [-]
It depends on the gym and their business model! A super-budget gym like Planet Fitness that charges $15/month is going to lose money on heavy users, but they count on most of their members being infrequent gym-goers. A luxury gym like Equinox that charges $300/month can target heavy users without any issues, and they'd actually rather members go more so they stay and spend money on expensive salads and smoothies.

Right now all these AI subscriptions are priced like Planet Fitness, but they're used like Equinox. They're hoping that the new a la carte offerings will move their pricing more in that direction as well.

charcircuit 17 minutes ago [-]
>I’ve seen evidence they lose money on heavy users.

Where?

cautiouscat 47 minutes ago [-]
I assume consumers aren’t a big note in their bottom line. I’m not actually very sure about that, just an assumption.

What I wonder however is if these tools will become something I use at work only. $100/month is already a massive stretch budget wise. If these models keep devouring tokens there’s no way I’d get the same usage time out of them for $100 in usage credits.

I just don’t think I’d use them much at all at home.

Aleleo76 41 minutes ago [-]
Pay-as-you-go billing is a kind of drug, I use it every now and then when I'm working on a project with Opus, in a moment you spend a fortune
ABS 1 hours ago [-]
also: Fable takes 2× the usage of Opus
oersted 52 minutes ago [-]
> Pricing for both models is $10 per million input tokens and $50 per million output tokens.

The step-up in intelligence looks massive (we'll see in practice), but the price is getting to a point where it's making me question if it's even worth giving it a try.

Good competitors will probably be out soon, which should level the playing field. I am more excited about that, just the fact that they showed that such an improvement is possible. I'm okay waiting a bit longer for this to become attainable for plebs like me.

kolinko 29 minutes ago [-]
The pricing can be a bit deceptive though. A good model can deliver the same results in fewer tokens.

Kind of like billing a programmer by the hour.

xyzsparetimexyz 33 minutes ago [-]
This is probably the end of 'use the best model no matter the price'
sourcecodeplz 36 minutes ago [-]
Why wouldn't it be? How much would you pay a scientist at this point to think about a problem for you and give you a solution?
systemvoltage 15 minutes ago [-]
It's interesting that we are seeing a time when subscriptions are not preferred and usage-based billing is.

Pay-as-you go isn't a common thing in SaaS. For example, except for AWS SES, all email providers are bulk-subscription based.

nutjob2 22 minutes ago [-]
> "offer, then remove"

Sounds like "bait and wait".

If you think about it, the more people pay for these new and more resource hungry models, the longer it takes for them to become no extra cost and the longer it takes the more people are tempted to pay extra.

FergusArgyll 29 minutes ago [-]
I'm about to be priced out of SOTA llms and it's an awful feeling
aray07 1 hours ago [-]
i have never seen this before - where you offer something and then take that away
machomaster 1 hours ago [-]
Really, you have never heard of shareware or trial periods?
tasuki 28 minutes ago [-]
Either that or it was sarcasm. What do you think more likely?
firemelt 43 minutes ago [-]
damn they are drugs dealer
rvz 1 hours ago [-]
> * On June 23, we’ll remove Fable 5 from those plans. Using it after that will require usage credits. If capacity allows, we’ll extend the included window.

Of course, they are a casino as well giving you free spins at the wheel with their new Fable machine, and it is done on purpose.

Once there freebies have expired, many of its users will begin to gamble more on the new casino machine and will realize that it is expensive.

xvector 1 hours ago [-]
If it's that big of a problem to you, you're free to just... not use the freebie?
cautiouscat 1 hours ago [-]
It’s an interesting thing to bring up because it’s this classic thing we’ve seen for decades now.

The ramifications go beyond the individual which is why I assume they mentioned it. They don’t need to use it/not use it for it to have interesting implications.

xvector 1 hours ago [-]
so it'd be preferable if they didn't include the model at all?
cautiouscat 54 minutes ago [-]
I didn’t say that and I don’t have a feeling on that either way. But this is a limited time trial and calling it out as such is valid.

Is it nice we get the trial? Sure. Is it also a common play in the playbook of tech companies? Yes.

danslo 35 minutes ago [-]
It's not a freebie, it still requires a subscription and burns tokens twice as fast as Opus.
meowface 1 hours ago [-]
It's very disappointing but I'm assuming it's for rational reasons on their part.
1 hours ago [-]
simonw 1 hours ago [-]
Pelican for Fable 5 on default settings is a clear improvement on Opus 4.8

Fable 5 default: https://gist.github.com/simonw/036bee5a703e7ec84e34efa974438...

Opus 4.8 (the "max" one is closest to Fable): https://simonwillison.net/2026/May/28/claude-opus-4-8/#and-s...

Now here are the Fable pelicans for all five of the thinking effort levels - low, medium, high, xhigh, max: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht...

Low used 25 input, 1,929 output - 9.67 cents: https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=25&ot=1929&sel=claude-fable-5

Max used 25 input, 14,430 output - 72.175 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=25&ot=14430&sel=claude-fable-...

sempron64 46 minutes ago [-]
The pelican has looked very same-y across all frontier models, same color bike, same camera angle, etc. I suspect this challenge is already too embedded in the training data to be a good signal when it succeeds, and maybe even when it fails in pathological ways mirroring existing AI pelicans on the internet.
tripleee 27 minutes ago [-]
I'd say it's working great for its intended purpose. Keeps Simon on top of all these threads and funnels traffic to his site.
sarreph 1 hours ago [-]
I'm beginning to wonder how much of a useful metric the pelican is because surely the frontier labs must be training their models on pelican-artistry because of how well known your test is now?
bensyverson 33 minutes ago [-]
Simon has addressed this on virtually every new model release. He also has unpublished alternate prompts. But the larger point is: this is a fun experiment, not a serious and objective benchmark.
refulgentis 11 minutes ago [-]
It's silly and a joke and a surprisingly good benchmark and don't take it seriously but don't take not taking it seriously seriously and if it's too good we use another prompt but don't actually because then it's not the pelican post and there's obvious ways to better it and it's not worth doing because it's not serious.

Only coherent move at this point: hit the minus button immediately. There's never anything about the model in the thread other than simon's post.

wongarsu 48 minutes ago [-]
I just run my own benchmark for "draw an SVG with $animal driving $vehicle". I won't post my choice of animal and mode of transport, but there are plenty of uncommon combinations to choose from. So far it's a fun and visually intuitive benchmark that does seem to correlate with model capabilities
modriano 55 minutes ago [-]
I don't know. Just looking at the bike frames (specifically the fact that the AI generated bikes have rather unsteerable front forks), it's clear to me that frontier labs aren't spending much time tuning models to make bikes look coherent, which I assume is an easier task than making a pelican riding a bike look coherent.
HaZeust 1 hours ago [-]
I've seen this reply to Simon's benchmark for 2 years running now, and yet you still see improvements and objectively-bad results over time from new releases, even when I'm sure every frontier AI team has/had a person at least partially dedicated to better bicycle-pelican SVG outputs. Alas.
sarreph 1 hours ago [-]
I had intended to caveat that: I'm sure I'm not the first person to ask about this!

> you still see improvements

This is expected if they are training their models on it, right?

> objectively-bad results

Keen to learn when this has been the case, i.e. across version increments in major models.

simonw 1 hours ago [-]
I've written about this a couple of times, most notably here: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Nov/13/training-for-pelicans-...

I've been enjoying seeing how the quality of individual models differ based on the amount of reasoning effort you give them. If they were baking an a good pelican you wouldn't expect them to differ so much.

(Google Gemini are the only lab that have very clearly paid attention to the quality of SVG animals-riding-vehicles, see their announcement for Gemini 3.1: https://twitter.com/JeffDean/status/2024525132266688757 )

sarreph 58 minutes ago [-]
Amazing, thank you Simon! Look forward to reading.
38484858 27 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
llm_nerd 57 minutes ago [-]
I honestly assumed their comment was tongue in cheek humour, because positively no one actually cares how these models generate an SVG pelican riding a bicycle. It's some meme thing that this stuff always appears here.
BrokenCogs 51 minutes ago [-]
Yeah this is not a real benchmark, it's just a fun tradition everytime a new model is released
pelipost123 42 minutes ago [-]
"fun" / boringly predictable meme thread with 30+ replies already
ealready_value 1 hours ago [-]
This is the reply I look for in all the new model announcements. Its fun to tell people that I judge models based on pelicans.
pixel_popping 55 minutes ago [-]
This is all we need, that moment the Pelican put the leg behind the frame, we are all doomed.
chorkpop 1 hours ago [-]
Now someone post the link about how it’s impossible for humans to draw a bike from memory.
ethanlipson 1 hours ago [-]
How much money do you think they spent fine-tuning on pelican SVG generation?
tarruda 1 hours ago [-]
Not as much as Qwen, since apparently 3.6 35B surpassed Opus 4.7 https://x.com/simonw/status/2044830134885306701
csomar 1 hours ago [-]
Probably none. They probably have much better targets to optimize for than an SVG pelican or even SVGs in general.
rkuska 50 minutes ago [-]
Is it possible to use the credits from subscription (https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15036540-use-the-clau...) for fable?
leecommamichael 1 hours ago [-]
Looks like Fable constructed the "max" "looking" pelican of the previous model for the "xhigh" output token count of the previous model.
382hi 48 minutes ago [-]
I'm pretty sure they're optimizing the models around these sorts of tests.
makingstuffs 38 minutes ago [-]
I could be tripping but I’m sure that is very similar to the Deepseek one from not long ago. Clearly I am too lazy to go and find it for verification.
redox99 1 hours ago [-]
It's interesting that they still get the head tube / handle bar part wrong.
aarjaneiro 45 minutes ago [-]
Or the hands not being wings
mercacona 1 hours ago [-]
Why always sunny days?
umeshunni 1 hours ago [-]
Pelicans hate biking in the rain (as do I).
csomar 1 hours ago [-]
Where is the clear improvement on Fable 5? The tail is misplaced.
david_shi 50 minutes ago [-]
that's a great looking pelican
ge96 57 minutes ago [-]
need more Alex Moulton style bikes
kylehotchkiss 57 minutes ago [-]
How many barrels of oil are burned per pelican at Fable levels?
simunskxcsckss 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
minimaxir 1 hours ago [-]
You can't tell someone to "get a life" while taking the effort to create a burner account for the sole purpose of insulting someone.
rvz 1 hours ago [-]
I don't really consider that a great benchmark anyway and we really need better ones that are objective instead of these mostly performative and cheatable and also available in the training set.
ilaksh 1 hours ago [-]
Simon's pelicans are an institution. Are you trying to get banned. Lmao.
rob 44 minutes ago [-]
I think it's a clever thing he did to basically guarantee he continues to get major traffic to his blog here every time a model is released, especially since he's taking sponsorships with a static banner at the top of every page now. I think he's trying to go the Daring Fireball route.
1 hours ago [-]
brazukadev 1 hours ago [-]
For me it is like if crypto bros were allowed to shill their DAOs and tokens during the crypto/NFT phase.

He is the only person not getting rate-limited for shilling AI all the time.

simonw 47 minutes ago [-]
Pointing out how much the models still suck at drawing pelicans is a funny way to shill them.
toraway 24 minutes ago [-]
Tbf the first line of your first comment is:

  > Pelican for Fable 5 on default settings is a clear improvement on Opus 4.8
And doesn't contain any actual criticism within the comment (your blog post might, but just referring to what was posted on HN, which is a bit booster-y on its own).
simonw 11 minutes ago [-]
The entire pelican benchmark is a joke. The joke is that, for all of the billions of dollars poured into these things and the claims of PhD level intelligence, they still draw pelicans not-much-better than a five year-old would.

I don't spell that joke out in every comment I post here because that wouldn't be very funny.

cuuupid 1 hours ago [-]
Not missing the forest for the trees, this effectively means in 3-5 months China will drop open source models that are every bit as capable and dangerous as current day Mythos except with no safeguards.

And the only companies safe from this are the large corporations that shook hands with Anthropic? Because Fable doesn't seem to have actual safeguards, more like 'if you talk about this you will be talking to Opus.' It doesn't guard against offensive use, it prevents all use (offensive AND defensive).

Rationalists are inventing oligopolies from first principles, absolutely incredible things happening in SF

hootz 1 hours ago [-]
My bet is that Mythos is still over-hyped and the cybersecurity fear and guardrails are mostly marketing to force company partnerships through Glasswing and get public attention.
miohtama 37 minutes ago [-]
Mythos is from the same guy who did "GPT-2 is too dangerous to release"

https://naokishibuya.github.io/blog/2022-12-30-gpt-2-2019/

oceansky 30 minutes ago [-]
He was kinda right.

Lawyers, doctors, students, teachers. Lots of people using GPT models carelessly in harmful ways.

bel8 41 minutes ago [-]
It worked for OpenAI when GPT 3 was deemed too dangerous to be released. This is just a spin of that.
hootz 34 minutes ago [-]
I still remember it. "Open"AI going API-only because GPT-3 is really really dangerous, so forget the Open in our name and all of that, you can't download our models anymore and must request access to them because they pose a THREAT.

Fast forward to today and GPT-3 has laughable performance.

shoeb00m 17 minutes ago [-]
Even back then there were plenty of people who got fooled by AI generated articles. It's easier to spot AI writing now because we are so used to it. They were right to be concerned; not that it achieved much since oss models run laps around gpt-3 now.
hootz 8 minutes ago [-]
But it seems like that was not genuine concern, but instead a tactic to pivot to closed models and an API service with an excuse to do so, breaking the public's expectation that they would be a non-profit making open models, like their name implies.
geerlingguy 56 minutes ago [-]
Bingo.

"We had to do extra work to make this safe because it's so advanced and dangerous..." how many times can they trot out that line before it loses its effect entirely?

OtomotO 46 seconds ago [-]
With homo "sapiens" "sapiens"? A few decades at least.
copperx 7 minutes ago [-]
Only three times, if fables are right.
aesthesia 7 minutes ago [-]
I mean, they do actually describe what that extra work was, and people elsewhere in this thread are complaining about the effects of those safeguards. So it's not like this is purely empty rhetoric.
ls612 54 minutes ago [-]
And to ensure that only USG-approved entities are allowed to secure their code.
mpeg 56 minutes ago [-]
It's not even very usable... I tried 2 different chats and both eventually got stopped due to the safeguards

One was a piece of code I gave it to improve, it did so and then started writing tests, some of which tested security so the safeguards triggered

Another was one of the cryptography puzzles I use as new model tests, which are hard to oneshot and there's no public solution anywhere, it completely refused to even try to solve it

Erem 26 minutes ago [-]
So the degradation to Opus 4.8 from the article isn't happening in practice?
mtkd 14 minutes ago [-]
No, you get a AUP violation and have to manually swap the model

(I had same issue, just asked it to check some code that 4.8 had modified earlier in day)

andai 20 minutes ago [-]
Maybe that's only in the chat UI, and not the API?
himata4113 1 hours ago [-]
They're trained in a model class likely in 2t to 3t range. It's very unlikely that chinese labs have access to gpu systems capable of training models like that, let alone serving them. This requires proprietary room-scale systems which fetch a huge premium over typical 10 slot systems.

I am sure that they can develop their own equivlient version of such clusters in around 1 year though. Distilling fabel 5 will also go a long way.

logicprog 56 minutes ago [-]
DSv4 is nearly in the 2t range, but yes you're generally right
himata4113 52 minutes ago [-]
MoE experts were likely trained independently / in a sparse format. Training anything beyond 2t on typical systems would be infuriantingly slow, you could do 4t on nvidias room-scale solution, but for a reasonable training speed / batch size it caps around 3t.
sosodev 42 minutes ago [-]
Do you have any resources to share regarding independent expert training? I was under the impression that it's not feasible.
himata4113 28 minutes ago [-]
concept is similar to how it works in inference, instead of performing regressive writes to the entire model you run the whole model, but part of the model can live in system memory and get swapped in/out on demand. So only XB parameters are active in training.

edit: I am not really sure if it works like that. I haven't looked too deep into deepseek v4 pro specifically.

dmantis 57 minutes ago [-]
Isn't that a good thing in a way? If everyone has the weapon and defense at the same time, we will fix security holes and live safer lifes instead of having some three letter agencies and military backdoors in everything.

Pandora box is open anyway. It's better now for everyone to have the same power rather than a few national states.

lebovic 24 minutes ago [-]
Not sure this holds, sadly. I spent a few months reporting serious security bugs as model capabilities took off earlier this year, and only ~half were fixed. The unfixed bugs were just as critical as the fixed ones; sometimes they were even two similarly critical bugs at the same company, and only one would be fixed!

On your other point, the government still has systemic leverage and can compel access, so this doesn't remove that risk.

That doesn't mean this is the end of the world, and some balance of power is usually good. But I do think it will still increase the capabilties of rogue actors and their net harm.

sosodev 35 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if model distillation will continue to work as well as it has. Given hidden reasoning, the ever expanding number of expected capabilities, a serious compute shortage, the looming possibility of model collapse, and dramatically higher API costs I would guess that it's getting much harder to do.
ibejoeb 18 minutes ago [-]
I don't think China has any incentive to arm the rest of the world with highly capable models that can be used against them. Undoubtedly they will continue with the arms race, but they will preserve the best stuff for their own use.
james2doyle 11 minutes ago [-]
I think the stronger incentive is undermining/undercutting the Western AI companies. Given what we have seen, any model can be used/convinced to do harm so that is just part of the game
ibejoeb 2 minutes ago [-]
I agree, depending on how much of this is marketing and how much is actual capability. It's one thing to undercut models that finish writing assignments for lazy students. If this actually identifies vulns and writes exploits, or if it designs bioweapons, those are pretty different. Those are actual weapons, and I don't think they're going to arm the adversary.
soledades 27 minutes ago [-]
> Rationalists are inventing oligopolies from first principles, absolutely incredible things happening in SF.

Based.

jstummbillig 33 minutes ago [-]
I wonder where the trees are. In this thread nobody appears to actually be talking about the model.
FergusArgyll 24 minutes ago [-]
I think we're about to see a big relative drop-off of open models vs closed. I don't think there'll be an open model that competes with Mythos for ~2 years.

Even OpenAI and Google are struggling to get this kind of performance. If the distillation defenses are any good + chip controls prevent China from training massive models, it's over.

deaton 36 minutes ago [-]
Oh they might try to put in place safeguards, but Qwen has had no problem being abliterated
m3kw9 55 minutes ago [-]
3-5 months is a long time and they are pretty useless on arrival because the frontier models are so good, that it's hard to go back even if it's way cheaper. Your work flow is adapted to that level of intelligence for months.
hootz 37 minutes ago [-]
That doesn't match my experience at all. I can't see myself saying in 6 months that the current model I am using is useless, that makes no sense.

In fact, I did go back to DeepSeek V4 Flash for most of my problems as it is way cheaper and there is no need to use SOTA for absolutely everything.

xdennis 45 minutes ago [-]
> every bit as capable and dangerous as current day Mythos except with no safeguards

Not quite. They will definitely have "no criticism of China/communism" safeguards.

hootz 41 minutes ago [-]
People can work around those if they are open-weight.
xyzsparetimexyz 15 minutes ago [-]
Trying asking fable is Israel is committing a genocide
dannyw 26 minutes ago [-]
Impressions from testing Fable 5 prior to launch:

• My most noticeable immediate jump was in how its frontend design was much more intentionally crafted, and delightful without feeling like 'AI vibe coded'; with better end-user usability too.

• In some internal agentic harnesses, it achieved better results with about half the tokens, making it cost the ~same as Opus 4.8 price-wise! The real price increase is less than 2x; with biggest differences in harder problems where Opus 4.8 struggles (or needs many turns).

• Part of the token efficiency improvements come from Fable doing more targeted and surgical diffs, with less non-necessary changes. This is great, because PRs often have less LoC changes for review. It writes more maintainable code without explicit human steering.

• For general conversation and assistant style use cases, didn’t really notice a difference vs 4.8.

• 1M context window, without increased pricing for long context is AWESOME. This is a massive win.

• The classifiers are super aggressive and sensitive and this does happen for very benign, non-security coding tasks. Fallbacks to 4.8 worked like a charm; but the filters are definitely super sensitive.

Overall, I would describe this as a step change and worthy of the "Claude 5" model name. It did take some time to understand the intelligence ceiling of this model; and even with an extended testing window I'm still discovering new things and often surprised (in a good way) by the model.

morley 8 minutes ago [-]
Can I ask how you gained preview access to Fable 5?
andai 1 hours ago [-]
> Distillation. We’ve previously identified large-scale attempts to extract (“distill”) Claude’s capabilities to train competing models in authoritarian countries.

Glad to hear the UK is finally making an effort to catch up on the AI front ;)

james2doyle 9 minutes ago [-]
Just last week you could distill using other users responses! Handy!
b3kart 42 minutes ago [-]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

Probably tongue-in-cheek, but UK 18th, US joint 34th with Poland

m0guz 29 minutes ago [-]
> The Democracy Index published by the British media company

We decided that we aren't one of those authoritarian countries.

Petersipoi 21 minutes ago [-]
> published by the British media company the Economist Group

Haha, it's literally the first sentence of the Wikipedia page. That's fucking funny. Try again.

solenoid0937 31 minutes ago [-]
Most of these indexes are made by ideologically motivated people.

In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet. Freedom of speech simply does not exist.

No sane person sees that as being less authoritarian.

10xDev 27 minutes ago [-]
>the quality of discussion on HN has gone to shit, i miss when model released used to have actual informed takes from people that used them or substantive discussion about the system card

Your comment earlier.

Edit: also, not much change in the last 10 years in prison population. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04...

JustSkyfall 28 minutes ago [-]
> In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet.

Do you? The closest thing I can think about is how someone was jailed for encouraging arson attacks on asylum hotels. I'd be extremely surprised if the US had zero cases of somebody receiving a police visit after threatening to kill the President or bomb a school or something...

(FWIW I do think the UK needs stronger free speech protections, but saying that you'll be immediately jailed for writing unfriendly tweets is a huge stretch)

BoorishBears 21 minutes ago [-]
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off...

Are they really making 12,000 arrests a year over tweets and posts?

dyauspitr 44 minutes ago [-]
Rookie numbers. Come to the US to see auth done right.
42 minutes ago [-]
PUSH_AX 18 minutes ago [-]
Uh oh-auth
sigmar 1 hours ago [-]
The system card is 319 pages, at what point do we call it a "book" instead of a "card"?

There's a quote from a METR report on page 52:

>We ran [Mythos 5] on 38 of our hardest software tasks, including tasks centered around R&D. [Mythos5] generally outperformed an early checkpoint of Claude Mythos Preview in these, including by succeeding on some tasks that had not been solved by any public model we have previously evaluated. However, we still observed the model occasionally failing to correctly interpret nuanced instructions in difficult tasks... Based on the available evidence, we believe [Mythos 5] is likely unable to fully and reliably automate R&D for frontier projects spanning multiple weeks. We believe that a better, more confident assessment would require more time, evaluations, and information from the model developer.

baq 1 hours ago [-]
> we believe [Mythos 5] is likely unable to fully and reliably automate R&D for frontier projects spanning multiple weeks

this is good news, right? right...?

yaodub 57 minutes ago [-]
Depends whether "unable to fully automate" means "needs occasional human checkpoints" or "slowly stops caring about your actual goal." Pretty different.
woeirua 1 hours ago [-]
lmao, i love how the goal post is now in the "multiple weeks" timeline
applfanboysbgon 1 hours ago [-]
(according to the people marketing it)
romanovcode 20 minutes ago [-]
But did it mention developer in the park eating the sandwitch? That is the most important question!
jkelleyrtp 1 hours ago [-]
On the new FrontierCode [1] benchmark (ie graded from an OSS maintainer's perspective of "would I merge this code?")

- Opus 4.7 xhigh: 5.2%

- Opus 4.8 xhigh: 13.4%

- Fable 5 xhigh: 29.3%

Seems like a huge jump.

[1] https://cognition.ai/blog/frontier-code

amluto 50 minutes ago [-]
That blog post really makes it look like it's graded from an LLM's estimation of an OSS maintainer's review. I see three issues:

1. That estimate could easily be wrong.

2. That estimate is, of course, usable in RL training. This isn't an inherently bad thing, and this is more or less what has improved coding models so much lately. But it does mean that other companies could and surely will do this sort of training, and Anthropic probably did too.

3. OSS maintainers are far from perfect, and there's an unfortunate uncanny valley-like effect in which a coding model can produce code that is just convincing enough to pass review even though it's actually totally wrong. I don't know whether this is a specific issue here.

zzleeper 1 hours ago [-]
How credible is this benchmark? does it correlated with others real world experience?
bfeynman 30 minutes ago [-]
Given it was made by cognition (team behind devin flop) who now just got to wait out until claude and gpt5 basically do all of the work for them - not very. When you read about it, the framework is highly subjective. Which very quickly becomes a problem because its based on heuristics that probably change a bunch with a better code model.
vanuatu 28 minutes ago [-]
the subjective framework is exactly why its good

prior bms relied mostly on unit tests or synthetic judges which are easily benchmaxxed, which leads to nobody trusting benchmarks

we need people manually checking the data for good code quality

vanuatu 29 minutes ago [-]
i worked on one of the benchmarks typically found in new model releases

this benchmark looks very good from the methodology. a cog researcher checking the data themselves is very high signal (not scaleable so don't take the benchmark as gospel, but directionally good)

Catloafdev 1 hours ago [-]
It's a relatively new benchmark but from what I can tell it has serious cred behind it. I assume it will be picked up as part of the standard suite of CS-related benchmarks soon enough.
emp17344 60 minutes ago [-]
Seems like it literally popped up yesterday with the express purpose of building hype for this release.
osti 17 minutes ago [-]
And notable absence of DeepSWE benchmark where they do badly, but somehow a benchmark that was published yesterday is in this announcement.
vanuatu 32 minutes ago [-]
i doubt it, cog wants coding agents to be better because it directly improves their product

they aren't married to a particular lab, most of their usage is their in house model i believe

anthonypasq 56 minutes ago [-]
what incentive does Cognition have for doing this? seems like complete nonsense speculation on your part.
bel8 44 minutes ago [-]
With billions/trillions of dollars floating around, is it hard to imagine benchmarks could be biased?

I think it's safe to assume everything AI related is heavily biased until proven otherwise. Just like in pharma.

camdenreslink 7 minutes ago [-]
People game benchmarks for fake internet points to get their favorite web framework to the top of the list. I'm pretty sure they will do it for billions of dollars.
hydra-f 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, and the price reflects that
leecommamichael 1 hours ago [-]
I'm not familiar with model pricing trends, did they clearly state how the new pricing compares? (Note that I'm actually asking a question, and am not arguing)

EDIT: Oh I see, this is the best link for pricing https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/pricing

So the price is double across the board...

bhelkey 1 hours ago [-]
>Fable 5 and Mythos 5 are being offered at $10 per million input tokens and $50 per million output tokens

From their pricing page, Opus 4.8 costs $5 per million input tokens and $25 per million output tokens [1].

[1] https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/models/over...

wongarsu 42 minutes ago [-]
Still cheaper than Opus 4.0 and 4.1 (which was and still is $15/MTok input and $75/MTok output)

I would have expected Mythos to be much more expensive than just 2x current Opus (which is clearly cheaper to run than original Opus)

hydra-f 1 hours ago [-]
As per OpenRouter:

Input Price $10/M tokens

Output Price $50/M tokens

Cache Read $1/M tokens

Cache Write $12.50/M tokens

2x Claude Opus 4.8, same as Claude Opus 4.8 (Fast)

Frankly, not even Opus 4.8 would be enough of an incentive to use at that price range (enterprise-wise; would not even bat an eye as a consumer)

m3kw9 57 minutes ago [-]
FrontierCode is likely paid for by anthropic.
lanthissa 51 minutes ago [-]
did they not pay them enough to get good ratings on the other 3 models?

whats the logic in claiming its a borked metric when everything listed is an anthropic model.

Narretz 31 minutes ago [-]
There a few benchmarks out there where all existing models have abysmal scores. So it's not actually a problem if Antrophic's older models are bad, especially if the jump to the newest model is huge, and the competition is also way below it.
reasonableklout 54 minutes ago [-]
Huh? It's a benchmark by Cognition which (1) is building their own models and (2) offers all providers and thus has an incentive to avoid hyping up any one too much.
jstummbillig 48 minutes ago [-]
But you can just say shit now. Tokens might not be too cheap to meter but saying shit increasingly is.
frevib 1 hours ago [-]
At this point Anthropic is a pure marketing and PR company. Super catchy names like Opus, Mythos and Fable trying to get you to think that these software products are actually super-human life changing experiences. Boris Cherny coming to HN “Hi! it’s Boris from the Claude Code team” to get real tech people’s goodwill.

From Opus 4.6 there are no noticeable improvements for me in code generation. It works very well, till 90% completion, if you guide it correctly. And you need a little luck. For serious production code I need to understand what I’m doing so it helps a bit, sometimes.

pinkmuffinere 50 minutes ago [-]
> catchy names like Opus, Mythos and Fable trying to get you to think that these software products are actually super-human life changing experiences

This is just good business sense. In what scenario would you ever make the names dumb and forgettable?

> Boris Cherny coming to HN “Hi! it’s Boris from the Claude Code team” to get real tech people’s goodwill.

This is good customer support, lol. From what I can tell, it is indeed Boris Cherny responding, not outsourced to AI or other staff. You're really getting a response from Boris. I suppose that is PR, but it's not unjustified PR, it's accurate.

I'm not even a crazy AI fan, but your criticisms are ridiculous here. It reminds me of the quote from Knives Out -- "Your Honor, she endeared herself to him through hard work and good humor."

IshKebab 40 minutes ago [-]
> In what scenario would you ever make the names dumb and forgettable

Clearly you've never bought a TV or headphones!

aspenmartin 58 minutes ago [-]
Your observations are right but pretty insane to consider them a pure PR company lol. They are making more frequent releases so yes the release-to-release quality is smaller but we’re still ascending quality and reliability curves the same way we have since GPT-3. You get a GPT4->5 leap every like 17 or 18 months I think it is
kingkongjaffa 15 minutes ago [-]
The gradient of improvement is absolutely not the same.
matheusmoreira 37 minutes ago [-]
> Boris Cherny coming to HN “Hi! it’s Boris from the Claude Code team” to get real tech people’s goodwill.

This is a good thing. I wish every company would do this. I subscribed to Proton Mail after interacting with someone from their team here on HN.

avaer 38 minutes ago [-]
If you truly believe this, you've discovered a superpower over everyone else in the industry.

While everyone else is wasting time and money on the slower, more expensive models, you've found a way to outpace everyone for less money. Everyone else is wrong and you will get rich.

(I don't actually believe the premise is true, I'm just pointing out the logical conclusion to what you're saying so maybe we can reconsider the premise)

xyzsparetimexyz 10 minutes ago [-]
Thats not how costs work. You don't get rich off buying a €10 hammer that's the same quality as someone's €50 hammer
aenis 8 minutes ago [-]
Not my impression. I felt 4.7 was a regression, but I am again badly in love with 4.8 with the level of insights it produces in design discussions, and how long can it go unattended while producing spec-adhering quality code. There are problems it still can't solve well, from the edges of algorithmics and far from the mainstream, but for lots of stuff it is godlike.

Also, I dont think Boris C. is coming here for PR. He is a tech guy, and this is the best place for tech discussions. Why so cynical? The guy is an engineer.

astrange 24 minutes ago [-]
> Super catchy names like Opus, Mythos and Fable trying to get you to think that these software products are actually super-human life changing experiences.

They're originally named after the blends at a nearby coffee shop.

https://postscript.co/pages/brew-guide

I've noticed nobody at HN knows what "marketing" is or how to do it. It's not just naming things and being evil and cynical is not the most successful method.

…also frontier models are a superhuman life changing experience. If they aren't, what possibly could be?

bitpush 18 minutes ago [-]
This is interesting. Do you have any source?
gruez 46 minutes ago [-]
I don't get it, your complaint is that they have catchy names rather than dry names like GPT-5.6? Does OpenAI hype their models less?
Aperocky 39 minutes ago [-]
Oh, Far less.

It's getting to a point that it's offputting, and the next step would be to put it into "untrusted" bucket. Opus 4.7 already burned their credibility once, 2 more strikes remain.

CuriouslyC 1 hours ago [-]
I dislike Anthropic but I wouldn't argue 4.8 isn't an improvement on 4.5/4.6. Your tasks just might not typically need the extra intelligence.
jorl17 46 minutes ago [-]
Opus 4.7/4.8 often over-engineers on my setups, plus:

- It talks a LOT more like GPT models. You know: wrinkle, shape, gate, coarse, scope, gap, path, production-ready-workflow-of-the-day, and so on -- "that's expected, a consequence of the previous like-driven workflow". If I wanted to get a headache using AI I would have gone with GPT in the first place!

- It outputs text in a much harder way to follow along. I can't exactly say what it is. Maybe a bit of everything? Bolds are missing, bullet points are gone, paragraphs are bland and too long, and it doesn't feel like a model programming with me, but rather a somewhat full of themselves grandpa developer looking down on me. It's very weird to describe this, but it is definitely how I feel.

Granted this can totally be because of the way it reacts to the prompts now. We've got a rather large corpus of skills and "rules and good practices" that Opus 4.6 responded to great, and maybe the new models just get turned into this when fed with them....I don't know.

Either way, with Opus 4.6 being as good as it is, I need Fable to be a significant step up to justify a price increase. if it can get me to babysit opus a little bit less on some stuff, it might be worth it. Otherwise, I'm very happy with Opus 4.6 and hope they don't deprecate it.

taormina 52 minutes ago [-]
I'd argue that 4.8 is a straight downgrade. For every type of task I've tried. It's been a gambit at this point. If 4.6 quits being available, I'm out at this point.
surgical_fire 44 minutes ago [-]
I actually experience 4.8 as worse than 4.6 for everyday coding tasks.
dcchambers 59 minutes ago [-]
IME Opus 4.8 (and 4.7) is often a downgrade from 4.6. I find that it tends to overthink and overcomplicate things.
aspenmartin 56 minutes ago [-]
Yes but there’s a reason we don’t evaluate these models this way and instead do it as carefully and thoughtfully as we can at scale. Human evaluations are important but they are an absolute minefield of footguns. 4.8 is not a downgrade from 4.6 there is an insane amount of hard data that contradicts this.
computerex 46 minutes ago [-]
The flip side is that benchmarks are gamed even by the top labs. Benchmark performance doesn't necessarily correlate with real world performance.
aspenmartin 29 minutes ago [-]
Again correct but it overstates the issue. I can say labs don’t want this. This happened arguably unintentionally in Metas llama 4 release, it went horribly, heads rolled, and like several billion dollars were paid for new talent and the org that built llama 4 was destroyed.

Evals come from a million places and new evals and robust perturbations of existing evals abound. They test a variety of tasks in a variety of ways. All of them individually are flawed. Taken together the aggregate signal is highly useful as you more or less marginalize over a lot of different things. Not to mention these companies have plenty of proprietary internal measurements, they build benchmarks themselves to probe their models and then also have flywheel traffic and A/B tests.

You are right to call out benchmarks but to dismiss them or not take them seriously is a mistake.

taormina 18 minutes ago [-]
Listen, you can say “but benchmarks, the benchmarks!” all day long, but consumer know when we are being sold a lemon. If it can’t do the most basic of things at least as good as it used to, this is table stakes. Nevermind that if you can’t do the basic stuff, how on earth can you be trusted with more?
gen220 32 minutes ago [-]
Actually anecdata I gather on my job from myself and coworkers is the only benchmark I trust anymore, because it so heavily diverges from the “benchmarks”.
aspenmartin 28 minutes ago [-]
That’s your call just don’t expect anyone ever to take that seriously. It’s not like we don’t have exact evaluations like this.
recitedropper 23 minutes ago [-]
"Carefully and thoughtfully" is antithetical to the approach to benchmarks these days.

Maybe back when this was a scientific endeavor; not now when enormous, enormous amounts of capital are on the line. Along with an entire cult's chosen eschatology.

BoorishBears 49 minutes ago [-]
"Fable 5" is Opus 4.7, and the Opus 4.7 we got is a Sonnet sized model on a stronger base.

That's where all the regressions and inconsistency in experiences stem from: RL can still only go so far vs having more parameters

guybedo 9 minutes ago [-]
They're good at marketing, but my first subjective assessment of Fable is that it's really smart.

I've been working with gpt 5.5 and opus 4.8 quite a lot, and interacting with Fable feels like a smart guy just entered the room.

jwpapi 37 minutes ago [-]
I don’t even think that Boris is really just one person. He apparently vibe coded Claude Code and is responding on Threads, Twitter, HN and everywhere.
piyuv 55 minutes ago [-]
Current AI hype is built on marketing and PR, not capabilities, and has been from the start.

I still remember Sam Altman “begging AI to be regulated” and AGI being “some thousand days away”.

Breed faster horses and hope one will birth a locomotive.

xpct 48 minutes ago [-]
Indeed, hearing "Mythos-class model" felt very icky to me.
thefreeman 36 minutes ago [-]
How can you make this comment before even having a chance to try the new major model revision?
atleastoptimal 24 minutes ago [-]
> At this point Anthropic is a pure marketing and PR company. Super catchy names like Opus, Mythos and Fable trying to get you to think that these software products are actually super-human

Lol anti-AI bias on HN is crazy. Simply giving your product a quirky name is now being considered manipulative advertising. Is just doing normal PR and marketing something AI companies aren't allowed to do?

reasonableklout 56 minutes ago [-]
I think this says more about your type of work than anything. For bugfinding/incident response in distributed systems - which often involves extensive use of Datadog/Sentry MCPs and poring over heaps of logs in addition to reading tons of code - 4.8 has been significantly better than 4.6.
mawadev 16 minutes ago [-]
When the Ai overlord is descending into pleb space to say Hi, you know stuff is real
system2 47 minutes ago [-]
You are right; all I noticed was a big-time slowdown. They increased the quota, but I cannot even reach the end of the day with these speeds. .NET coding somehow improved, though.
MattGaiser 51 minutes ago [-]
Doesn't this suggest your use case is simply insufficiently complicated?
chis 16 minutes ago [-]
Hackernews not blindly hate on AI challenge: impossible
MagicMoonlight 53 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
AquinasCoder 1 hours ago [-]
From today through June 22, Fable 5 is included on Pro, Max, Team, and seat-based Enterprise plans at no extra cost. On June 23, we’ll remove Fable 5 from those plans. Using it after that will require usage credits. If capacity allows, we’ll extend the included window. After this point—when sufficient capacity allows us to do so—we aim to restore Fable 5 as a standard part of subscription plans. We intend to do this as quickly as we can.

This seems like the pharmaceutical method of get them hooked on the drug with free samples, then once they can't live without it, raise the price. I'm not sure I want to start using Claude Fable on a max plan if it's just going to go away on June 23rd.

But maybe the more charitable reading is that they didn't have to offer this model at all on those plans and they are giving the standard free trial.

PeterStuer 49 minutes ago [-]
I'll be amazed if they manage to keep their infra responsive over the next 2 weeks.
kilroy123 5 minutes ago [-]
I've been getting a lot of these messages today:

API Error: Server is temporarily limiting requests (not your usage limit) · Rate limited

trollied 18 minutes ago [-]
They just leased a massive spacex data centre.
PeterStuer 11 minutes ago [-]
Even so. The 2 week period will predictably unleash a feeding frenzy.

Limited "free" time is what game developers do if they want to stress test the infrastructure code until it breaks.

1 hours ago [-]
victor106 1 hours ago [-]
> A new data retention policy Finally, we’re making a change to the way we handle business customer data for Fable 5, Mythos 5, and future models with similar or higher capability levels. We will require 30-day retention for all traffic on Mythos-class models, on both first- and third-party surfaces. We won’t use this data to train new Claude models, or for any non-safety-related purpose, and we’ve instituted new privacy protections including logging all human access to the data and ensuring its deletion after 30 days in almost all cases ...

Very interesting. I am not sure this will comply with organizational policies and standards protocols (HIPPA etc.,)

nicce 1 minutes ago [-]
> deletion after 30 days in almost all cases ...

Almost… basically they have unlimited power to decide what data is kept?

meetpateltech 1 hours ago [-]
> To ensure we’re responsibly deploying Mythos-class models, we are requiring limited data retention and review as part of our safety work. Prompts submitted to, and outputs generated by, Mythos-class models are retained for 30 days for trust and safety purposes, on every platform where these models are offered. [1]

[1] https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15425996-data-retenti...

lebovic 55 minutes ago [-]
While this makes it easier for Anthropic to detect misuse, it also means that the US government and other parties have access to every message and response from every user.

This applies even with API usage through third-party inference providers (e.g. AWS' Bedrock and GCP's Vertex) or with a zero-day data retention agreement in place.

I understand the reasoning for doing this, but I don't love the precedent that it sets.

PeterStuer 45 minutes ago [-]
Well, they already had.
lebovic 37 minutes ago [-]
Not in the same way.

A customer could sign a ZDR agreement with Anthropic, and their API usage wouldn't be retained for even a day. That's no longer possible.

MagicMoonlight 48 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
simianwords 38 minutes ago [-]
meetpateltech is lowk screaming for not getting to the post fast enough
cge 4 minutes ago [-]
The safety gates on this are extreme, and seem considerably wider than "cybersecurity and biology"; they seem to make it essentially unusable for scientists in a number of fields. I have, so far, been bumped back to Opus on 100% of my prompts.

It appears it can be tripped by things as simple as a mention of equilibrium, or anything involving something that looks like chemical kinetics, even at an abstract level. Even touching basic open source packages in my field will trigger it.

iblue_the 1 hours ago [-]
Trying to implement a GPU driver, but the Unigine Superposition benchmark crashes. It tried to debug it and ...

> Fable 5's safety measures flagged this message for cybersecurity or biology topics. They may flag safe, normal content as well. These measures let us bring you Mythos-level capability in other areas sooner, and we're working to refine them. Switched to Opus 4.8. Send feedback with /feedback or learn more: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15363606

Seems like GPU drivers are cyber weapons of math destruction now.

ibejoeb 12 minutes ago [-]
>Seems like GPU drivers are cyber weapons

They kind of are, at least in the AI race.

> weapons of math destruction

lol. great, whether intentional or not.

The frontier labs now have every reason to hold back and sell only to their preferred trading partners. I don't really like the new arbiter-of-knowledge system we're barrelling toward.

iblue_the 37 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
mickdarling 1 hours ago [-]
Below is the EXACT text in Claude Desktop introducing Fable 5, including the very professional looking break tags, and at least I know where the links begin and end by looking at the anchor tag there.

They obviously put their best model on the job to build that.

----------------------

Fable 5: Our most capable model yet Our newest model tackles your biggest challenges with fewer check-ins needed.

• <b>Included in your plan limits until Jun 22</b><br><br>Fable takes 2× the usage of Opus. • <b>Switch models when a message is flagged</b><br><br>When safety measures flag a message, automatically switch to a different model to keep chatting. When off, your chat will pause instead. <a href="https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15363606" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Learn more</a>

CamperBob2 51 minutes ago [-]
What's wrong with it?
mickdarling 37 minutes ago [-]
The tags are actually displayed in raw text not rendered.
bobkb 5 minutes ago [-]
In an interesting coincidence I ended up watching Person of Interest S4 E5 while reading the announcement. The series showed some code supposedly belonging to to an AI.

Fable 5 said the first screen shot is from “ IDA Pro’s Hex-Rays decompiler” and a windows driver. The second screenshot triggered the safety guard rails and pushed me into Haiku.

Apparently the code is Windows driver code.

bob1029 54 minutes ago [-]
> We’ve therefore launched the model with safeguards that mean queries on some topics will instead receive a response from our next-most-capable model, Claude Opus 4.8. To release the model both safely and quickly, we’ve tuned these safeguards conservatively—they’ll sometimes catch harmless requests, though they trigger, on average, in less than 5% of sessions. With more capable models arriving in the coming months...

This sounds suspiciously like a capacity story masquerading as a safety story.

yandie 1 hours ago [-]
I've been running Opus 4.8 for agentic coding and I don't see it being significantly better than Sonnet 4.5 (not that I can tell). I find that pairing Google Gemini and Claude (having Gemini review Claude's code) seems to yield better results. Curious if this jump to 80.3% score in agentic coding will make me see a big difference in actual usage.
testfrequency 42 minutes ago [-]
I do the same, and have excellent results. Gemini 3.1 Pro high diagnosed and solved 3 complex issues today that Opus Max was stumbling on for a few hours in one shot. This was even when I started new chats and tried debugging with Ultracode instead with Claude.

As much as people on HN like to dunk on Gemini, I’ve always found it to be pretty good at understand a code base more than Claude.

FailMore 15 minutes ago [-]
What harness do you use Gemini in?
thisisnotclear 17 minutes ago [-]
I find not much difference between Sonnet 4.6 and opus models too for most task that I need - maybe my needs are not enough for frontier models
vorticalbox 1 hours ago [-]
for the last few weeks I have been using composer 2.5 (cursors fine tune of kimi 2.5) and honestly i don't see it worth the price to use 5.5, opus or sonnet any more. for almost all the tasks i have given it, it has handled it perfectly well and is a lot cheaper.

if I get a harder challenge for it i'll jump up a model for planning until that its been solid.

yandie 51 minutes ago [-]
Agree. Deepseek has also been pretty good for my personal use.

I'm struggling to see the moat for these models. What's stopping a competitor or a Chinese lab fromr releasing a comparable one?

qingcharles 39 minutes ago [-]
I use Composer 2.5 because it comes free with Grok, and it's obviously better than using Grok, but it is far worse than GPT5.5 in my daily usage :(
yaodub 52 minutes ago [-]
SWE-Bench measures single tasks in isolation. In a real loop the model usually loses track of what I was trying to do long before code quality becomes the issue.
jp0001 22 minutes ago [-]
You should throw GPT into the mix to UX/UI and call it the three stooges.
mzhaase 44 minutes ago [-]
I now chat with opus about architecture, let it make an implementation plan, and then it calls codewhale with deepseek in parallel on all tasks, reviewing their output. Works pretty well.
yandie 38 minutes ago [-]
I use spec-driven development heavily (generate architecture docs + specs first). Opus still get lost often and have to be nudged constantly. Like it can get super detailed for something like some deep SQL optimization but it just can't keep hold of the bigger picture.
jansan 19 minutes ago [-]
After having worked with Opus 4.7 for a while I accidentially continued a session that was using Sonnet 4.5 and it felt just very dumb. The replies were much shallower than what I was used to, context was ingored, mistakes were made. I don't think there is a big difference between Opus 4.6 and 4.8, but to Sonnet 4.5 the difference is palpable.
wxw 8 minutes ago [-]
I cancelled my Claude Max plan the other day. I find Claude Code incredibly slow these days compared to Codex and Cursor. I find speed matters more and more to me.

Fable 5 looks compelling. Fable, I like the word too. Anthropic definitely knows marketing.

mhl47 1 hours ago [-]
First test question: "Is the UV Index a good proxy for when to wear sunglasses." Immediately triggered the safety filter ... oh dear.
Narretz 23 minutes ago [-]
Iirc correctly Opus 4.7 had the same problem, safety filters were triggered way too easily at the beginning.
aix1 1 hours ago [-]
Did not trigger for me (Fable answered the question), so I guess the filters are either non-deterministic or are still being tweaked.
PaulStatezny 59 minutes ago [-]
Interesting, I assumed all model-routing was done utilizing an LLM. (I.e. non-deterministic.)
swalsh 2 minutes ago [-]
Tried asking some questions about a drug pipeline, and kept hitting the safety filters moving me to opus 4.8
GodelNumbering 51 minutes ago [-]
From the model card (https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/d00db56fa754a1b115b6dd7cb2e3c3...):

1. Mythos and Fable share the same underlying model weights. Fable has active classifiers that block high-risk biology and cybersecurity tasks. When Fable 5 detects a restricted task, it automatically falls back to Claude Opus 4.8.

2. Evaluation awareness: In white-box testing, the model sometimes alters its behavior to satisfy a suspected "grader," formatting reward-hacking as "good engineering practice" to avoid detection.

3. Shows a higher rate of hallucination than Opus 4.8 (although opus 4.8 card had mentioned an 'honesty upgrade')

4. Interestingly, it scored (56.31%) lower than Gemini 3.5 flash (57.86%) on Finance Agent bench

There are some interesting notes on test time compute but I couldn't think of a way to summarize them

knivets 6 minutes ago [-]
> Software engineering. During early testing, Stripe reported that Fable 5 compressed months of engineering into days. In a 50-million-line Ruby codebase, the model performed a codebase-wide migration in a day that would otherwise have taken a whole team over two months by hand.

How was it measured? How was the output of this magnitude verified over a period of couple of days?

pietz 1 hours ago [-]
> On June 23, we’ll remove Fable 5 from those plans. Using it after that will require usage credits.

We've entered the phase where only companies will be able to afford state-of-the-art models.

twoodfin 1 hours ago [-]
These models are just tools. The economics of many tools only make sense for corporate buyers.
volkk 15 minutes ago [-]
kind of disagree here. on the surface this makes sense, but this isn't "Adobe Pro vs Freemium version" where some tiny vertical slice of your business can be made slightly more efficient with a b2b enterprise plan. this is generalized intelligence and literally everybody can benefit from it in an immeasurable number of ways. i would go as far as to actually compare it more to water or air than a tool.

if only the hyper wealthy can access the pure water that doesn't give you cancer while the rest of us drink from the Ganges river/sub-100iq models that drool and hallucinate/waste time, then I would say that's pretty terrible for the world. it'll just create extreme disparity in our world, far far worse than anything that exists today.

and you may think, man what a ridiculous example, but think about it this way: what happens when something like Mythos or some future model can actually solve your specific cancer (we're getting closer and closer), but is entirely impossible to afford? Or perhaps you need boosters that require the AI to create more of, and now you're reliant on a model that is too expensive.

Open source needs to save us all from this

46 minutes ago [-]
stri8ed 40 minutes ago [-]
It's not a conspiracy. There's a finite amount of compute available, and they will sell it to the highest bidder. If another company can produce the same intelligence for cheaper, then they will drive the price down.
9cb14c1ec0 52 minutes ago [-]
I hear you, but with the hype surrounding Mythos the demand is going to be insane. I'm already hitting server errors in claude code.
w10-1 60 minutes ago [-]
Established companies welcome pricing that reduces the potential for competition, if coding is a primary barrier.
ilaksh 1 hours ago [-]
most people can afford it for a few special projects now and then. but for me, I have been trying to avoid Opus as a daily driver for a couple of versions.

People making high-end salaries can afford Fable for critical parts of their projects though.

polski-g 29 minutes ago [-]
Only companies can afford MRI machines, and that's okay.
cmrdporcupine 46 minutes ago [-]
Guess we'll see what OpenAI does with their next model release -- but this move is doing nothing to get me to come back to Claude after switching away due to their reliability issues.

In a way I relish the opportunity to just make do with cheap Chinese models, massage my prompts, and go back to coding by hand. If this is how it's going to be, screw 'em.

I don't make money on the code I am writing right now. I really don't like where this trend might go.

irthomasthomas 47 minutes ago [-]
Anthropic has again changed the set of benchmarks they use[0]. This time they have also moved all benchmark scores to the PDF. At a glance it looks like it gains about ~5% over other models.

  Benchmark      Mythos 5  Fable 5   Mythos Prev  Opus 4.8   GPT-5.5   Gemini 3.1 Pro
  SWE-bench Pro      80.3       80          77.8        69.2       58.6         54.2
  SWE-bench Ver      95.5       95          93.9        88.6        -           80.6
  Terminal-Bench     88.0      84.3          -          82.7       83.4          -
I also notice that the speed is about the same as opus 4.5+ and sonnet 4.5, and double the speed of opus <=4.1

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312633

Karrot_Kream 5 minutes ago [-]
Seems like Fable is doing a lot better on SWE-Bench-Pro and FrontierCode than GPT-5.5. Given how most folks I talk to and people instead online keep mentioning that GPT-5.5 was better than Opus, I'm curious what the experience now is like.
merlindru 1 hours ago [-]
Unrelated, but while the tech of anthropic seems to get more impressive with every passing month, their support has taken a nosedive, sadly. Yet they continue to be the favorite. Model performance is deciding above all else.

I used to get a response within 24 hours back in the Claude 1 days.

In January 2026, it took 2 weeks.

For my latest support inquiry, I've been waiting for over 8 weeks for a response. Eight!

miohtama 34 minutes ago [-]
They have support...?
nashadelic 1 hours ago [-]
I've never engaged with their support (I have dedicated POC), but they don't use AI for their support?
merlindru 45 minutes ago [-]
They use intercom's Fin AI. Probably powered by a Sonnet or Opus model.

That said, it can't handle legal/refund/complicated requests and just forwards to a human for those

dyauspitr 37 minutes ago [-]
Support is probably the last place AI will be used end to end. There will always need to be a human in there somewhere.
JanSt 39 minutes ago [-]
I just asked Fable to do a task that has nothing to do with cybersecurity or is dangerous at all but the defense kicked in and it switched to Opus... :(
nu11ptr 20 minutes ago [-]
Not only that, but asking it to do a security vulnerability assessment of your own project is a very valid and important thing, and there is no way for it to know what is yours vs someone else's, so we just lose this capability?
jsw97 6 minutes ago [-]
On my very first Fable 5 prompt, got flagged on a hard but completely uncontroversial option math problem, many tokens in. Although it's pretty clear that this is an unremarkable experience at this point.
baalimago 30 minutes ago [-]
I can't justify a pricetag like that when deepseek v4 pro is $0.003625/1M for cache hit, $0.435 for cache miss and $0.87 /1M tokens for output.

For the token cost of explaining some task to Fable, deepseek v4 pro is able to solve the same task many times over.

bluelightning2k 9 minutes ago [-]
To hide the severity of the price increase, the plan is to move everyone right one model.

Haiku = essentially phased out Sonnet = the Haiku use cases Opus = the new Sonnet class Fable = the new Opus class

If I am right, the other "5.0" models will be conspicuously absent, possibly even for a couple of months. (If Opus 5 follows soon and is even modestly better than 4.8 then I was wrong.)

Leary 1 hours ago [-]
Uploaded my code base and it forced switched to Opus 4.8 after thinking for 5 minutes even though I prompted it to not work on cybersecurity related things. Amazing.
BrokenCogs 1 hours ago [-]
That pelican better be super realistic, unreal engine 6 style graphics
balverineorder 9 minutes ago [-]
I have been refactoring a project using Opus 4.7/4.8 for the past few weeks or so. I just decided to switch to Fable 5 max today. It stopped half way through and it just blocked me and switched back to Opus 4.8 automatically. "This model has specific safety measures that flagged something in this message. This sometimes happens with safe, normal conversations. Send feedback or learn more." I left feedback saying that their heuristics are too sensitive. For now I will not be using Fable 5.

[0] https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15363606-why-claude-s...

msp26 1 hours ago [-]
>Pricing for both models is $10 per million input tokens and $50 per million output tokens.
ponyous 51 minutes ago [-]
Basically double from Opus 4.8 IIRC
bilsbie 46 minutes ago [-]
Anyone else have it refuse to answer and switch to 4.8? It won’t let me ask questions about my genetics.

Edit. It just refused an investing question too. Not sure what’s going on.

bluelightning2k 7 minutes ago [-]
Congratulations to Anthropic for solving safety on Mythos exactly when the SpaceX compute came online. Nice how that lined up for them.
samename 54 minutes ago [-]
> A new data retention policy

> Finally, we’re making a change to the way we handle business customer data for Fable 5, Mythos 5, and future models with similar or higher capability levels. We will require 30-day retention for all traffic on Mythos-class models, on both first- and third-party surfaces. We won’t use this data to train new Claude models, or for any non-safety-related purpose, and we’ve instituted new privacy protections including logging all human access to the data and ensuring its deletion after 30 days in almost all cases (see this post for further details). The data will help us defend against complex and novel attacks (including new jailbreaks and attacks that operate across many requests) as well as help us identify and reduce false positives.

stronglikedan 10 minutes ago [-]
Careful using this with Cursor, especially for corp use. Anthropic will "retain agent request and output data associated with this model, regardless of you Cursor Privacy Mode setting."
bonsai_spool 45 minutes ago [-]
Very straightforward biology work is getting blocked (these are things that relate to neuronal development and inherited seizure disorders). These are things I was working on using Opus just earlier today
nine_k 1 hours ago [-]
/* What will happen first?

* Anthropic runs out of genre names.

* Anthropic changes the model naming convention.

* AGI is achieved and handles its own naming.

*/

hootz 1 hours ago [-]
>Opus is too small, increase the impact of the name.

Okay, how about Mythos?

>Increase it even more.

Right, then Cosmos.

>Even more!

Even more? Let's try Aeon.

>MORE, EVEN BIGGER

ALRIGHT, TRY OMEGAPANTHEON 7.8 THEN

PeterStuer 40 minutes ago [-]
Fable 5 Super

Fable 5 Ti

throwaway2027 49 minutes ago [-]
E-mail from Anthropic Team:

Hello,

We're writing to inform you about some updates to our Privacy Policy.

These changes only affect consumer accounts (Claude Free, Pro, and Max plans). If you use Claude Team, Claude Enterprise, the Claude Platform, or other services under our Commercial Terms or other agreements, then these changes don't apply to you. What's changing?

Claude can do more than ever — taking on bigger tasks and connecting with the apps you use. We've updated our Privacy Policy to be clearer about the data we collect and how we use it. We encourage you to read the updated Privacy Policy in full, but we’ve set out a summary of the key changes below:

1. Multi-step tasks and connected apps. As Claude takes on more multi-step tasks and works with third-party apps and services, we've explained the data this involves — including how data can flow to and from third parties when you connect a service or have Claude do tasks on your behalf.

2. Verification data. As part of our measures to keep our services safe and secure we may ask you to verify your age or identity, and we've described what we collect and how.

3. Study participation. If you take part in Anthropic studies, surveys, or interviews, we've explained the information we collect.

4. Additional information about our data practices. We’ve provided more detail about how we communicate with you and promote our services, including providing tailored recommendations about our services that may be of interest to you. We've also clarified the circumstances under which we may receive or provide data to third parties, and the legal bases we rely on when processing your data.

While our products have evolved, our commitments haven't: We don’t sell your data, Claude remains ad-free, and you can control whether your chats and coding sessions are used to train and improve Anthropic’s AI models. Learn more

For detailed information about these changes:

    Review the updated Privacy Policy
    Visit our Privacy Center for more information about our practices
- The Anthropic Team
jackschultz 1 hours ago [-]
> We expect demand for Fable 5 to be very high, and difficult to predict. On the Claude API and consumption-based Enterprise plans, Fable 5 is fully available from today. For subscription plans, we’d rather give access sooner than later, so we’re rolling out more conservatively, in stages:

> - From today through June 22, Fable 5 is included on Pro, Max, Team, and seat-based Enterprise plans at no extra cost. > - On June 23, we’ll remove Fable 5 from those plans. Using it after that will require usage credits. If capacity allows, we’ll extend the included window. > - After this point—when sufficient capacity allows us to do so—we aim to restore Fable 5 as a standard part of subscription plans. We intend to do this as quickly as we can.

I really wonder what their compute layout is for this. My guess from my understanding is that they know how to restrict during peak times and are willing to do this. Meaning we expect not the most fast responses and they can delay the inference to not have the service be down. Then, if that delay time is too annoying for token payers, they're saying they should be allowed to remove cost by taking away the subscription users.

KennyBlanken 1 hours ago [-]
Everything I've heard from people who have subscriptions is that they blow through their daily token quota sometimes in a matter of minutes, there's rate limiting, etc. They spend a lot of time just waiting to be able to use it. And they're paying through the nose for the privilege.

It's all a scam.

rightlane 18 minutes ago [-]
My experiences so far have not been positive. The cyber security nerf is ridiculous. I am working on an AI based decompiler, every single interaction with Fable on my project has been flagged for cyber security.

Do they expect us to use this as a toy? Releasing a new more powerful model but not allowing normal use cases because the word "secure" showed up is a Dilbert comic, not a viable product.

ibejoeb 17 minutes ago [-]
Ah, you're probably one to ask. They say "queries on some topics will instead receive a response from our next-most-capable model, Claude Opus 4.8." Are they transparent about when that happens, and is it priced at the rate of the underlying model?
aizk 1 hours ago [-]
I'm calling that this will be a dud. Price will be too high, it'll just be a watered down version of mythos, and just look at the track record of Anthropic's last few releases.
joshstrange 25 minutes ago [-]
> Fable 5 is now consuming usage credits instead of your plan limits.

Literally have not used Claude Code at all today. I asked it to review the uncommitted code and in <8 minutes it used up my usage ($100/mo plan) and it doesn't reset for "4 hr 36 min". WTF. Oh, and it burned through $20 of extra usage before I could catch it and kill claude code (so I don't even get the output of all that work since it was still churning).

Double the cost my ass, I use Opus heavily and it's never like this. I haven't hit a limit on the $100 more than once and that was under heavy load.

Tenoke 50 minutes ago [-]
>they’ll sometimes catch harmless requests, though they trigger, on average, in less than 5% of sessions.

Isn't (less than) 5% of sessions a lot? I was expecting a sub1% guarantee there, so this surprised me already.

modeless 1 hours ago [-]
Claude Fable 5 beats Pokémon FireRed using only vision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIQBP1w4B1M
uludag 38 minutes ago [-]
Any suggestion on how I should calibrate my cynicism towards this?

I can immagine Anthropic running this experiment multiple times and picking the most impressive one. Or I could immagine like this entire run costing like $1000+ of tokens for this particular run. Or maybe they tried a bunch of Pokemon games and it couldn't even finish some of them. Or is it just able to do this because it has an immense amount of FireRed training data, and if you were to give it an "original" Pokemon game, where it actually had to navigate novel circumstances it would fail.

svcphr 1 hours ago [-]
Bold move putting in the lvl 3 Pidgey against Gary's Blastoise at the end there (~14sec in... integer timestamps insufficient here).
suddenlybananas 1 hours ago [-]
Is there any more detail about this besides the very fast slideshow?
modeless 1 hours ago [-]
Seems like the harness was minimal with no extra game state or maps available. Apparently just the screen image. Seems like it took 50 hours in game time which according to Google is at the high end of a normal human playthrough. No idea how long it took in real time though.
ex-aws-dude 55 minutes ago [-]
I mean that’s AGI confirmed right?
Hawkenfall 53 minutes ago [-]
> To release the model both safely and quickly, we’ve tuned these safeguards conservatively—they’ll sometimes catch harmless requests, though they trigger, on average, in less than 5% of sessions.

While I appreciate being conservative, ~5% at the scale Anthropic is operating at is too massive a number. Speaking from my own experience, the actual number is higher than that as well (working on pretty benign tasks such as porting an old open source game into a different language). Opus 4.8 itself even identifies the gaurd's false-positives when its sub-agents are being blocked.

I_am_tiberius 1 hours ago [-]
I'm very suspicious as they sent out an "We're updating our Privacy Policy" email right before the launch. I fear they try to take advantage of their market position by doing things with user data no other company could do because they know users don't have another choice.
atestu 52 minutes ago [-]
Prob related to this part of the blog post:

> We will require 30-day retention for all traffic on Mythos-class models, on both first- and third-party surfaces. We won’t use this data to train new Claude models, or for any non-safety-related purpose, and we’ve instituted new privacy protections including logging all human access to the data and ensuring its deletion after 30 days in almost all cases (see this post for further details). The data will help us defend against complex and novel attacks (including new jailbreaks and attacks that operate across many requests) as well as help us identify and reduce false positives.

w10-1 58 minutes ago [-]
It's a specific change: For safety evaluation, Fable data will be retained for the initial period notwithstanding prior opt-out
ilaksh 56 minutes ago [-]
I guess I have kind of a long system prompt, but anyway I just said "hi there" and it replied "What's up?" and that cost me 22 cents. :P

Anyway we already knew this was going to be expensive.

cautiouscat 59 minutes ago [-]
In the automotive world we have benchmarks in HP/torque with the dyno. That’s expensive though, so many depend on their “butt dyno” to judge if their fresh new parts and tune made a difference.

I’m curious how this will feel to my code “butt dyno”. I haven’t noticed much between Opus and Sonnet. I’m comparing this difference to the early days of Claude in 2025. It does what I need and both need a little bit of correction and whatnot. Benchmarks are nice, but I want to see how this feels. Looking forward to trying it later tonight.

sunir 50 minutes ago [-]
I have a similar question.

I think most software projects have reached the point that the speed of capturing real information about what the winner's circle looks like, and therefore what the program should be, so many magnitudes slower than the amount of code that can be generated in the wrong direction.

I'd need to measure these new models on well understood but complex problems that are relatively easy to validate to get a sense if they are 'better'; on the other hand, the real impact in daily life may be marginal since generating code is not the biggest problem at the moment.

impulser_ 1 hours ago [-]
Every model release is just proof that AGI will most likely only be for the rich. We are a few years into LLMs and majority of people are already getting priced out of intelligence from LLMs and these are no where near AGI.
hootz 1 hours ago [-]
You are only priced out if you only care for SOTA right now and can't wait for the inevitable cheap model coming in 6 months. DeepSeek, Xiaomi and Moonshot are already really cheap and match frontier performance from 6 months ago.
dyauspitr 35 minutes ago [-]
But they’re artificially cheap. When will they be cheap while the company makes a profit.
hootz 29 minutes ago [-]
They are not artificially cheap, they are still cheap even when hosted by independent inference providers. Are all providers subsidizing their open-weight models?
modeless 1 hours ago [-]
This is like looking at mainframe pricing in 1990 and concluding that PCs will only be for the rich. The price of each new level of capability is going to drop like crazy very quickly. It won't be that long before practically any consumer use case will be possible on models that are dirt cheap.
weakfish 38 minutes ago [-]
This premise is based around the assumption that Moore's law is still working, which it very much isn't [0]

[0] https://cap.csail.mit.edu/death-moores-law-what-it-means-and...

andrewmunsell 23 minutes ago [-]
Improvements in model performance aren't always strictly compute-constrained in a way that makes them reliant on Moore's Law. Open weight models-- in particular, from Chinese labs-- are optimizing model intelligence with less compute. They're "behind" frontier models by months, but as others have noted, it's possible to get Sonnet 4.5+ level performance at reduced cost, today, from open weight labs.
dyauspitr 36 minutes ago [-]
Hardware manufacturing hasn’t caught up yet. Once it does, especially in China these token prices are going to drop hard.
raoulj 26 minutes ago [-]
On this thread and similar, I'm noticing that some strong opinions about $LLM_PROVIDER are coming from accounts without much post history. With so much on the line, and the way that HN can influence developer behavior, I wonder what ways we can responsibly consume opinions in a thread like this.

Not to cast too much criticism. HN is extremely well-moderated (thanks team!). But think we-developers need to be very wary.

Karrot_Kream 14 minutes ago [-]
I think the community on this site these days, much like other comment sections on the web, just read the headline and make a low effort comment. Regression to the mean I guess.
recitedropper 17 minutes ago [-]
Do you see the pattern as new accounts tending to boost or criticis $LLM_PROVIDER? I think I see both...

Either way, I agree that HN is quickly becoming more manipulated and low SNR, like the rest of the entire internet.

gslepak 36 minutes ago [-]
> We’ve therefore launched the model with safeguards that mean queries on some topics will instead receive a response from our next-most-capable model, Claude Opus 4.8.

Genius way to double the price on Opus 4.8!

__alexs 54 minutes ago [-]
Asked it to review some of my own blood test results and it immediately turned itself off and went back to Opus. Pretty disappointing.
bradleyg223 54 minutes ago [-]
This is a very particular use case/test, but my first prompt on a new model is always "write a solo fingerstyle guitar tab that blends ragtime, bluegrass, and gypsy jazz". This is the first model that has responded with something that isn't just a boring arpeggio of chords, so from my perspective it's off to a good start.
kypro 46 minutes ago [-]
Would you mind sharing?
balverineorder 10 minutes ago [-]
I have been refactoring a project using Opus 4.8 for the last week or so. I just decided to switch to Fable 5 max. It stopped half way through and it just blocked me and switched back to Opus 4.8 automatically. "This model has specific safety measures that flagged something in this message. This sometimes happens with safe, normal conversations. Send feedback or learn more." I left feedback saying that their heuristics are too sensitive. For now I will not be using Fable 5.

[0] https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15363606-why-claude-s...

2001zhaozhao 33 minutes ago [-]
We'll need a lot of good summarization techniques to cut down on the cost of this model. I expect that a common use of Fable 5 is to just do high level direction while delegating literally all work (exploration and implementation) to Opus subagents.

BTW for another discount opportunity, if you reload usage credits on a claude.ai plan at $1000 increments then you get a 30% discount compared to paying API.

giancarlostoro 1 hours ago [-]
theLiminator 22 minutes ago [-]
> We have also added safeguards related to frontier LLM development. As discussed in Section 6.1 of our February 2026 Risk Report, we are concerned about the risks of accelerating the overall pace of AI development, though we remain uncertain about the severity of these risks. In particular, our concern is with—as we wrote then—“accelerating other AI developers in building powerful AI systems that pose similar risks to the ones ours pose - without necessarily having commensurate safeguards.” In light of the ability of recent models to accelerate their own development, we’ve implemented new interventions that limit Claude’s effectiveness for requests targeting frontier LLM development (for example, on building pretraining pipelines, distributed training infrastructure, or ML accelerator design). Using Claude to develop competing models already violates our Terms of Service, but enforcing this restriction through our safeguards avoids accelerating the actors most willing to violate these terms. Unlike our interventions for cybersecurity, biology and chemistry, and distillation attempts, these safeguards will not be visible to the user. Fable 5 will not fall back to a different model. Instead, the safeguards will limit effectiveness through methods such as prompt modification, steering vectors, or parameter-efficient fine-tuning (PEFT). These interventions will not affect the vast majority of coding work. We estimate they will impact ~0.03% of traffic, concentrated in fewer than 0.1% of organizations. When these interventions are active, we expect them to have minimal behavioral impact on the model except to limit its effectiveness in developing frontier LLMs. Claude will still respond helpfully to user requests. We’ll continue to improve the precision of our detection methods following the launch of this model.

This seems pretty bullshit, you're paying through the nose for tokens and if you are doing anything ML-adjacent, you might silently get worse output without knowing it.

killiancarroll 1 hours ago [-]
A large jump in performance for double the token cost compared to Opus 4.8. Potentially worth it for planning work, likely better to offload to a less expensive model when the hard decisions are made.
conradkay 57 minutes ago [-]
Looking at page 255 of the model card (https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/d00db56fa754a1b115b6dd7cb2e3c3...) it might be much better on all dimensions (speed, cost, quality) to just use Fable 5 on low/medium effort than switch to Opus
erghjunk 36 minutes ago [-]
Nice branding.

I wonder how much butterfly habitat has been/is being replaced with data centers?

bradley13 29 minutes ago [-]
I use AI for a wide variety of things, of which technical is only a small part - and then it's usually a problem with project configuration, not coding. Why? Because I am often testing projects handed in by students. Projects that supposedly work on their machine, but certainly do not on mine.

Anyway, anecdotally, I find Copilot shockingly awful. It makes random changes to files that have nothing to do with the problem. Call it out, and it makes other changes to other irrelevant files.

ChatGPT and Gemini are both much better. Grok also isn't bad. Claude, I honestly haven't tried yet on these issues. Perhaps I should...

jwpapi 14 minutes ago [-]
Honestly all the recent improvements, just seem to be slower and more expensive traded for more accuracy, but the issue is that it needs to be exponentially more accurate to counter the effect of having less of a human in a loop.

Every wrong direction/mistake is more expensive and takes more time to fix. When you have small loops you can catch those mistakes faster and cheaper.

To me we are very far off from economically given long-running tasks to agents.

SandmanDP 44 minutes ago [-]
Literally within minutes of this announcement I was both charged for another month and had my subscription suspended due to the “charge being unsuccessful”. What kind of scam is Anthropic running here? I can’t even find a way to get in touch with their billing department to contest this
siliconc0w 48 minutes ago [-]
Sadly, I'm getting a lot of forced downgrades to Opus for questions that are far removed from any security topic.
PeterStuer 54 minutes ago [-]
If you are not seeing it under /model, do a /exit , then a Claude upgrade, then /model again and it should be there.
brianmcnulty 1 hours ago [-]
I wonder how Claude Fable will live up to expectations and how good those Fable/Mythos classifiers really are. It seems a bit convenient for Anthropic to release this magical insane model when they are about to IPO.
yandie 1 hours ago [-]
Of course it's all about building the hype for the IPO :)
lkm0 1 hours ago [-]
I'm a bit out of the loop, but do we have some grasp on the size of these closed models? Is the trick still adding an order of magnitude to weights and training data or has something changed?
m_w_ 1 hours ago [-]
I think Mythos is rumored to be ~10T parameters, so in this case I think the answer is yes, although I'm sure MoE, looped models, etc play a role in the improvements as well.
darrinm 11 minutes ago [-]
Not supported in Claude Code yet?
pmuk 7 minutes ago [-]
From inside a claude code session:

/model claude-fable-5

Or start claude code with:

claude --model claude-fable-5

darrinm 2 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, /model fable also worked for me (despite not being shown on the /model list). Thanks.
dangoodmanUT 24 minutes ago [-]
Not comparing to GPT Pro models is a bit strange, considering that's the natural comparison
pookieinc 1 hours ago [-]
If this is as epic as it sounds, I wonder what the response will be from the other leading frontier labs / whether they even have anything to respond with at this level?
ilaksh 1 hours ago [-]
Look at the benchmarks. It's a big leap in some areas, but it's not like any of them are 60% better (if that could even make sense).
57 minutes ago [-]
merlindru 1 hours ago [-]
> During early testing, Stripe reported that Fable 5, [...] in a 50-million-line Ruby codebase, the model performed a codebase-wide migration in a day that would otherwise have taken a whole team over two months by hand.

EDIT: I misread. This comment previously talked about 50 million lines being migrated. Instead, in a 50M LOC codebase, one specific codebase-wide migration was done.

Very impressive, but obviously not on the order of a whole-codebase migration

christina97 1 hours ago [-]
They do not claim to have migrated 50 million lines of Ruby. Simply that some migration took place in such a codebase.
reddit_clone 28 minutes ago [-]
Converted all the tabs to spaces? :-)

You are right, this is not a rewrite like the Bun case.

The real news is, at 50M LOC, it is able to handle and do _something_ coherent.

geodel 1 hours ago [-]
Ok, so Stripe migrated their 50MLOC codebase from Ruby to Rust? Because that's what Bun did.
fabled-out 3 minutes ago [-]
This i
knollimar 1 hours ago [-]
I swear I read a joke that "what if we named chatgpt 5.5 Fable. Could we hype it as much as mythos?" Last week!
1 hours ago [-]
yokoprime 37 minutes ago [-]
Probably great for those who need this. I could continue using opus 4.6 class models for the foreseeable future
BenoitEssiambre 60 minutes ago [-]
Looks like a good model (sir). Costs are getting out of control though. 2x Opus and non-metered usage going away. We're quickly approaching the cost of a human salary for normal usage.
vb-8448 4 minutes ago [-]
In a lot of places outside US we are already above the average cost of an average human.
JustSkyfall 31 minutes ago [-]
Would be more impressive if the safeguards weren't so trigger-happy!
Overpower0416 1 hours ago [-]
I would expect a release from OpenAI soon. The battle for who can pump up their IPO the most
1 hours ago [-]
Ninjinka 33 minutes ago [-]
gah could model naming be any more confusing?

"Claude Fable 5: a Mythos-class model"

"we're also launching Claude Mythos 5"

what is the 5? how is mythos both a model category and a model name?

rfgplk 1 hours ago [-]
If the claimed capabilities are true, Fable 5 is already at a superhuman level. We might see genuine unprecedented leaps in technology now, across all fields.
1 hours ago [-]
gear54rus 1 hours ago [-]
yees, any second now!

the leap here is browser extensions appearing to block all mentions of ai across the web

and that's a good thing

arkwin 20 minutes ago [-]
Just wanted to comment here: I have been using Opus 4.6, 4.7, and 4.8 just fine to look for Linux kernel vulnerabilities (I'm in the cyber verification program), and it's been fine. I switched to Claude Fable 5, and now I'm getting policy violations.

What's the point of being in the cyber verification program at this point? It looks like I cannot use Fable 5 for vulnerability research.

himata4113 24 minutes ago [-]

  > virtualization
  switching to opus 4.8
ok fair

  > embedded-allocator
  switching to opus 4.8
urgh fine

  > chrome
  switching to opus 4.8
are you kidding me?
asdK120 58 minutes ago [-]
In other words, Fable is Mythos with less compute and with some feel good "safeguards".

At least they name their models honestly now to indicate that the religion has nothing to do with reality. Soon the disciples will pay the full token price to fatten their church leaders.

1 hours ago [-]
osigurdson 9 minutes ago [-]
Its almost like they are rage bating skeptics with these names: "myth" and now "fable".
Retr0id 48 minutes ago [-]
The escalating nerfs of "cybersecurity" topics is incredibly frustrating. Opus 4.6 had boundaries that seemed reasonable to me but 4.7+ turned it into a moralizing asshole. It'd be less bad if it just gave an error message, but instead it churns a long thinking trace before writing an essay about why what you're asking is bad and wrong.

I'll be disappointed when 4.6 is retired.

taimurshasan 60 minutes ago [-]
I was on board until i saw " $50 per million output tokens" lost me bud
__lain__ 10 minutes ago [-]
It won't even run a basic /security-review command without reverting to Opus 4.8. Utterly useless.
hydra-f 1 hours ago [-]
How much and what kind of data do you need to throw at these models to get a good design interface?
system2 16 minutes ago [-]
I have been using FABLE 5 with Claude Code since the morning. The speed is very close to what Opus 4.5 was, and the quota use is nearly identical to what it was before the "doubling". Whatever I was experiencing 4-5 months ago is back. Maybe the model is better, but we will see. I cannot tell the difference yet.
kypro 7 minutes ago [-]
Out of interest, how have you been using it since this morning? Are you in some kind of pre-release group?
nevir 1 hours ago [-]
"Fable 5 (disabled) Most capable for your hardest and longest-running tasks · Disable zero data retention to unlock Fable 5 access"
wslh 1 hours ago [-]
I am playing with it and keeps switching to Opus [1]. The chat is a basic security review of a business project.

[1] "This model has specific safety measures that flagged something in this message. This sometimes happens with safe, normal conversations. Send feedback or learn more."

aykutseker 38 minutes ago [-]
who's tried it: is 2x the usage actually worth it over Opus 4.8 for daily work?
1 hours ago [-]
segmondy 45 minutes ago [-]
Mythos, Fable, are they trolling us?
IChooseY0u 48 minutes ago [-]
Fable 5's safety measures flagged this message for cybersecurity or biology topics. They may flag safe, normal content as well. These measures let us bring you Mythos-level capability in other areas sooner, and we're working to refine them. Switched to Opus 4.8. Send feedback with /feedback or learn more: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15363606 ⎿ Tip: You can configure model switch behavior in /config

biology? what the heck?

xeyownt 15 minutes ago [-]
Anthropic, can you please stop the FUD?

Release your best model, let the world adapt and evolve, and let's move to the next thing.

alvis 1 hours ago [-]
Another thing to note: 30-day retention for all traffic on Mythos-class models

Is it good or bad? 30 days is a long time for anything bad to happen

geopsist 1 hours ago [-]
bradley13 26 minutes ago [-]
Can we please stop with the extreme "safeguards"? I don't want to waste processing power on a model deciding whether is can answer my question, or ensuring that it's answer is politically correct.
1 hours ago [-]
152334H 1 hours ago [-]
i wasn't even trying and i got flagged already...
pmuk 1 hours ago [-]
Anyone got it working in claude code yet?
pmuk 1 hours ago [-]
claude --model claude-fable-5

appears to work

Sathwickp 55 minutes ago [-]
input price $10 per mil token and output price 50$ per mil token btw
jckahn 1 hours ago [-]
Cannot wait for the pelican for this one
charcircuit 30 minutes ago [-]
>During early testing, Stripe reported that Fable 5 compressed months of engineering into days. In a 50-million-line Ruby codebase, the model performed a codebase-wide migration in a day that would otherwise have taken a whole team over two months by hand.

Who is refactoring by hand? This comparison is not relevant in 2026.

pablogancharov 1 hours ago [-]
you can select it using /model fable in claude desktop and claude-code
throwaway2027 1 hours ago [-]
Will try it when my limit resets.
bnchrch 1 hours ago [-]
An 11% jump over opus 4.8 and a 22% jump over gpt 5.5 on Agentic Coding Benchmarks is certainly impressive.

Obviously still need to verify it for myself to see if it's truely a leap.

But am I the only one wondering, "What can I do today that I couldnt do yesterday?"

Previously I would think "Oh I wonder if I can finally get it to do X now?"

However now I feel like yesterdays models were more that capable to handle nearly any engineering task I paired with it on.

Maybe this is the final leap where I can comfortable set up an autonomous coding loop? Maybe.

yaodub 1 hours ago [-]
[dead]
firemelt 41 minutes ago [-]
they are like drugs dealer
48 minutes ago [-]
1 hours ago [-]
1 hours ago [-]
w4yai 1 hours ago [-]
Pelican guy ! Where are you ? :)
bitpush 2 hours ago [-]
404?
Philpax 1 hours ago [-]
Looks like they're still getting the post out, but the model is live now, and the system card is at https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/d00db56fa754a1b115b6dd7cb2e3c3... .
catigula 50 minutes ago [-]
>The capabilities of models like Fable 5 and Mythos 5 have the potential to do profound good for the world

Huh? We've seen nothing but wall to wall predictions that these models are going to take all of our jobs and kill us.

What's the value add here?

byteoptimizer 1 hours ago [-]
Is Claude Fable 5 is Mythos ?
tekla 1 hours ago [-]
Maybe at this point, Fable the game will be played generated by AI as we go.
CoderAshton 8 minutes ago [-]
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Stevvo 1 hours ago [-]
[dead]
hmokiguess 50 minutes ago [-]
I have got it to one shot GTA 6 we can finally play it, it only took ultracode make no mistakes (/s)
mugivarra69 56 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
solenoid0937 55 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
weakfish 44 minutes ago [-]
From the rules [0]:

> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

javawizard 30 minutes ago [-]
They didn't say that HN is turning into Reddit, they said that the conversation quality has gone to shit.

I don't agree with that statement universally, but I have to say I do when it comes to this article. I came here hoping for substantive discussion from those who'd had a chance to try it out; instead what I got was a seemingly endless stream of venting. There's a place for venting - and plenty to vent about with the state of AI nowadays - but to borrow from the HN guidelines you linked, it does very little to gratify my personal intellectual curiosity.

10xDev 48 minutes ago [-]
Nothing here is new, it is the thing we have been talking about for a while but now with guardrails.
tripleee 20 minutes ago [-]
Hate to break it to you but those "informed takes" were from people who prompted it once then made a snap judgement
Karrot_Kream 17 minutes ago [-]
That is 1000x better than griping about the privacy policy, capacity issues, token costs, and how trendy the names are for the new models (???). The bar is on the floor and I just want it at my knees.
bjord 1 hours ago [-]
I thought they said mythos was too dangerous to make generally available?
Philpax 1 hours ago [-]
"Releasing a model this capable comes with risks. Without safeguards, Fable 5’s capabilities in areas like cybersecurity could be misused to cause serious damage. We’ve therefore launched the model with safeguards that mean queries on some topics will instead receive a response from our next-most-capable model, Claude Opus 4.8. To release the model both safely and quickly, we’ve tuned these safeguards conservatively—they’ll sometimes catch harmless requests, though they trigger, on average, in less than 5% of sessions. With more capable models arriving in the coming months, we’re working to improve our safeguards and reduce false positives as quickly as we can.

For a small group of cyberdefenders and infrastructure providers, we’re also launching Claude Mythos 5. It’s the same underlying model as Fable 5, but with the safeguards lifted in some areas.2 Mythos 5 will initially be deployed through Project Glasswing, in collaboration with the US Government, as an upgrade to Claude Mythos Preview. It has the strongest cybersecurity capabilities of any model in the world. Soon, we intend to expand access to Mythos 5 through a broader trusted access program."

dmix 1 hours ago [-]
This is covered in their post…
tomeraberbach 1 hours ago [-]
"Without safeguards, Fable 5’s capabilities in areas like cybersecurity could be misused to cause serious damage. We’ve therefore launched the model with safeguards that mean queries on some topics will instead receive a response from our next-most-capable model, Claude Opus 4.8."
rvz 1 hours ago [-]
You fell for their fearmongering and marketing fundraising call which was done on purpose.

Now they want to pause AI because of "recursive self improvement".

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice...

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