Back in 2005-ish era, I helped reboot a college club (I was the coach/advisor).
We started out using forum software to co-ordinate what we were doing but eventually (2008-ish) switched to Facebook as the president of the club pointed out "Alex, everyone is already on Facebook and the notifications from us are in the middle of the notifications for when the next party is" etc.
Fast forward to today and the club is rebooting again. I asked the current club president "What social network is everyone on these days?" His response: "Really there is no one place where everyone goes anymore." I then asked him how clubs share their info etc and he says "The bulletin board at the student center?"
While social media definitely has its downsides (echo chambers, extremism etc) I do feel like it's a bit of a net loss to not have a "commons". That model makes it super easy to start up new organizations, get the word out etc.
Part of me hopes that we got back to the late 1990s dedicated websites/forums. That seems to be the Discord model but let's see.
rustcleaner 54 minutes ago [-]
I always hated how everything moved off independent forums and onto facebook. Zuckerberg was right about with his early idiots comment.
1659447091 34 minutes ago [-]
Why not group emails?
There's a guy that runs multiple sports teams at a local recreation center, in multiple adult divisions (wide age/culture rage), and he has been using email to great effect for over a decade that I have known him. I get 2-3 weekly emails about teams that need a sub for a game and those spots continue to fill up quickly. He probably has the majority of regulars (in the hundreds) at that sports center on his various email list. It just works. They tried chat groups once and that was a disaster.
wiether 13 minutes ago [-]
I've never seen "group emails" working, even when amongst technical people.
Part of it is just how emails work, part of it is how each clients work, part of it is people not knowing/caring.
You'll have:
- the guy that don't use the group email address as recipient, but personal email address
- the guy that change the subject which starts a new thread/discussion
- the guy that include all previous emails in their answer
- the guy with a signature that takes two screens to scroll
- the guy with an awful text font/color
- the guy that CC their whole address book, including the group email address, for personal stuff
- ...
I can go on. I went through this mess many times during the years, in various contexts; always the same result.
LoganDark 8 minutes ago [-]
Subject lines have never been a good way to identify emails. In-Reply-To / References exists in most clients if the sender specifies a Message-ID...
brudgers 1 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
brudgers 7 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
jjav 11 minutes ago [-]
> Why not group emails?
Yes, email is the absolute best for opimal reach. All the proprietary platforms are inherently fragmented and gatekeeped by their corporations. Trying to find a common denominator is hard. Email is standard, not owned by anyone and thus universal.
guerby 7 minutes ago [-]
discourse combines web forum and email, people can use either one as they see fit.
I absolutely detest email; it’s already a shit show with personal email and don’t get me started about work email. How the fuck the defacto king of search can’t reliably find Workspace emails in GMail, I’ll never know.
That said: the fracturing of reasonable alternatives and the diversification of available channels is extensive and just as annoying.
While there’s no real good answer here, I wish we could more effectively solve this problem for the masses.
adjejmxbdjdn 4 hours ago [-]
The terminology explains what happened.
The Zuckerberg movie was called The Social Network. At the time we saw the likes of Facebook as networks intended to build 1-1 communications.
Since then, it’s become social Media. It’s now about centralized structures broadcasting messages to subscribers and followers. The only difference from the past is who the broadcasters can be, but it’s no longer about building networks between people.
Eric_WVGG 1 hours ago [-]
This is what the Bluesky “AT Protocol” is meant to solve, though I fear it might be a bit too late.
dbingham 1 hours ago [-]
Except AT Protocol can't do the very thing that made Facebook the commons: privacy.
There's a proposal to add privacy to the protocol (private posts, private groups), but I don't think anyone has solved the real root problem with trying to implement privacy in a federated system (as opposed to P2P), which is the bad administrator problem. The proposal I saw still relied on trustworthy app administrators to respect a post's privacy settings. And that's a huge flaw.
Friendica and Diaspora both have the same problem, and to my knowledge don't have a good solution for it. They both just sort of hand wave it away.
I'm waiting to see if someone comes up with a good solution for the unsafe admin problem, but so far I haven't seen one.
SkyPuncher 4 hours ago [-]
I think we’re seeing a similar thing pan out with AI. When the barrier for something is too low, people realize that it’s not actually worth the other party’s effort to communicate it to them.
For me, physical communication is quickly becoming a signal that someone actually put effort into things.
dartharva 5 hours ago [-]
I tried hard but am failing to see how what you say couldn't just be fulfilled by a chat group today (or even back then).
ericbarrett 5 hours ago [-]
But which one - SMS/RCS? iMessage? WhatsApp? Signal? Telegram? Discord?
CatMustard 1 hours ago [-]
Funny, every time I've joined a new group for dancing or art classes or DnD or anything it's always 100% of the time a WhatsApp group, no questions asked. (This is in Ireland).
Never occurred to me that Americans wouldn't have a common group chat app everyone uses. Do Americans not all use iMessage, since pretty much everybody has an iPhone there?
5 minutes ago [-]
ethersteeds 1 hours ago [-]
Around 58% of American smartphone users are iPhone. It's a lot, but not enough to be universal. In my family there's 5 iPhone users and 4 Android users, amusingly similar to the national ratio.
Apple has famously made its strategy to use iMessage to enforce exclusivity. If you want to reach everyone, it's not iMessage. And Whatsapp in the US is worse, closer to 1/3.
jandrewrogers 25 minutes ago [-]
Americans primarily use iMessage/SMS/RCS. You only need one messaging app and everyone has it pre-installed on both iOS and Android.
WhatsApp does not solve any problems for the typical American user. Most Americans don't install WhatsApp unless they spend a lot of time overseas some place where it is required to do anything. Even international group chats seem to be more Discord-based in recent years.
nradov 37 minutes ago [-]
That's a weird perspective. Certainly not everyone has an iPhone. As for other messaging apps, I also see widespread use of GroupMe for certain domains like sports teams. Some clubs also run their own Slack channels.
radiorental 1 hours ago [-]
>Do Americans not all use iMessage, since pretty much everybody has an iPhone there?
I'm Irish and travel back and forth a lot. First, not everyone has iPhones, Android has 40% of the market.
Older generations use Facebook to manage their clubs. I'm increasingly seeing Whatsapp and occasionally Signal for younger and more tech-savvy social circles. Facebook is non-existent in sub 35 year olds. Its just taking longer to switch over (or away from) Facebook given how tech savvy older folks are here compared to Ireland.
SoftTalker 1 hours ago [-]
I'm probably the wrong person to answer since I don't and never have used any social media, but it seems like groups here mostly use Instagram.
Or just iMessage with fallback to SMS for those not on iPhones. Unlike most of the rest of the world, iPhones dominate in the USA.
Symbiote 4 hours ago [-]
When I ran a student society we used an email mailing list.
You can have two if necessary, one only for announcements and one for discussion.
jandrewrogers 21 minutes ago [-]
Many people don't read their email anymore. When I send an email I often have to send a text message to the person telling them I sent an email or they won't see it.
nradov 34 minutes ago [-]
This tends to run into problems with people not actually reading their email, especially when the messages are falsely classified as spam. That might not be a problem if all the members are on the same school mail server but it's problematic for general usage.
bawolff 1 hours ago [-]
I think there is less cost to being in multiple chat platforms than multiple social media platforms.
alexpotato 5 hours ago [-]
Exactly this.
Plus the notifications for chat groups are basically:
- show me everything
- don't notify me at all
gregdaniels421 5 hours ago [-]
Discord is a bit better about that with "pings"
soramimo 5 hours ago [-]
E-Mail! :)
joe_mamba 1 hours ago [-]
I have Messager app fatigue at this point (where I live).
- Doctors offices and official services use SMS.
- Some of my close family and friends use Signal (on my pressure).
- The distant boomers use Facebook Messenger
- With the younger people they use Snapchat.
- Almost everyone else in the country uses Whatsapp as that's the dominant messaging app.
- My friends in Berlin use Telegram
- Online communities for tinkering and foss projects require Discord.
God I miss the 2000s.
jjav 7 minutes ago [-]
> God I miss the 2000s.
Exactly! Having to check 27 different places for messages (also add individual sites like linkedin, etc, where people message), it is completely ridiculous.
Just send me email. It's universal, standard, no corporation owns it (thus no corportation can shut me out unlike facebook or all the proprietary solutions).
erichocean 4 hours ago [-]
Whatever the group owner picks, same as it's always been.
No one cares about the actual choice, only that it is made.
tanseydavid 2 hours ago [-]
> No one cares about the actual choice, only that it is made.
If the actual choice requires me to install an app then I care quite a lot and will probably decline to join in.
I don't think that I am the only one who feels this way.
bawolff 1 hours ago [-]
Then life moves on without you in the club.
Unless they are chosing something super obscure and sketchy, most club members are going to be fine with the leader just saying, we're picking whatsapp, either join or dont.
varispeed 1 hours ago [-]
> Part of me hopes that we got back to the late 1990s dedicated websites/forums. That seems to be the Discord model but let's see.
Well, thanks for lobbying, that's got regulated away. One must be mad today to run a forum.
jafitc 58 minutes ago [-]
"thanks to lobbying". if you use "for" it sounds like you are adressing the OP and he did the lobbying that you don't like.
varispeed 42 minutes ago [-]
Yes, I meant "to". Thank you.
halflife 9 hours ago [-]
Back to 2015, I stopped posting on Facebook when I noticed that it’s no longer about connecting with my friends, but a never ending stream of boring posts from groups and people that I don’t know or care to follow.
All my “social” life just moved to direct communication in WhatsApp (meta owned as well)
rimeice 9 hours ago [-]
2015 for me too. I wonder if there was some early day over juicing of the attention mechanism that put people off in that year, before they tuned it to reduce churn…
rightbyte 57 minutes ago [-]
Yeah but I think it just took some year for ppl to notice.
2013-2014 the algorithm got more foused on non-friend posts aswell as making the prioritzation less about "likes" from friends and instead some opaque engagement metrics. Groups had to "promote" post to get their prior reach to subscribers.
Also videos started to be posted around that time?
beardedetim 6 hours ago [-]
Tinfoil hat time but I think they definitely did _something_ at that time that "changed" the system. It's the Cambridge Analytica/Trump time and I believe that FB definitely "changed" at the same time.
jmpman 4 hours ago [-]
After Cambridge Analytica, my "intelligent" friends basically abandoned the platform, while my distant conspiracy inclined uncles started posting baseless slop.
TrackerFF 8 hours ago [-]
I noticed last year that FB did some change to their recommendations engine, that they’ll show posts by random people based things you’ve searched. A friend was diagnosed with cancer last year, I searched extensively, and now I’m exclusively getting posts from random people with cancer on my feed.
skybrian 4 hours ago [-]
It’s often very good at finding posts that I might theoretically want to read, except that I never want to read them on Facebook, because it would get in the way of seeing posts from friends.
chistev 8 hours ago [-]
Isn't that how it has been?
reactordev 8 hours ago [-]
No, it used to be a shuffled timeline of the posts and likes your connections/friends have made but I guess when half your platform are bots, you don’t want to store that metadata anymore.
yard2010 5 hours ago [-]
Remember the little dot in the end of the feed when you saw all your friends posts?
GenerWork 7 hours ago [-]
I've noticed that a lot of my friends switched from text based status updates (Facebook) to image based status updates (Instagram stories). Personally, I got tired of going on Facebook because it was all rage baiting political stuff, and that was all from friends, not even ads.
tayo42 52 minutes ago [-]
Instagram stories seems to be dieing too, except for the professional and business accounts I follow
CamelCaseName 47 minutes ago [-]
The bar is just so high, everywhere.
I want to fire off a quick quip and have a conversation.
Reddit is probably the only place where this works any more, but you have to be prompted by the right thread and early.
So people throw up their hands and go, "why bother?"
insickness 9 hours ago [-]
To keep people engaged, social media platforms have shifted from showing you content from people you know to prioritizing viral content. The algorithms know viral content offers an endless stream of entertainment that keeps people scrolling longer.
rightbyte 6 hours ago [-]
"Viral content" got nerfed to oblivion in 2013-2014 something when Facebook made companies pay up for group exposure. (Promoted post)
Before that a popular article could be shared among different friends networks to like total exposure to like everyone logged in that were somewhat interested in the article.
I was kinda a journalist then it was a really obvious flip.
Smalltalker-80 9 hours ago [-]
Like the writer I'm also a 'boomer' still keeping connected to an older friend group using Facebook and Instagram. For Facebook, I use the plugin "FB Purity" to filter out the generated cr*p posts and force chronological order. It's shocking too see how few posts are left, by agressive algorithm filtering and FB then deciding that "You're all caught up", refusing to show more posts. So my FB time is about 20 seconds every day...
bamboozled 45 minutes ago [-]
Yes because people no longer post they realised they need to show you their “explore” feed.
fleventynine 3 hours ago [-]
I stopped using Facebook back in 2021 when the majority of my feed was reshared political content with 20+ comments from my friends fighting about divisive social/political issues. It wasn't fun, and it wasn't fostering community, so I left. A few years later I logged in again to see that most of my Facebook friends had also stopped engaging.
CM30 2 hours ago [-]
Probably a crazy though, but I sometimes wonder if the pandemic/lockdowns did a number on social media activity too. Maybe a lot of people got burnt out on the whole thing after spending 2-3 years stuck inside with social media as their only way to communicate with friends and family.
That seems to be the point where most communities and social sites I'm on lost a lot of their activity/enjoyment, and where people seemed to start fading away.
Of course, increasing polarisation, an increasingly aggressive/selfish population and worries about privacy probably hit hard too.
mherkender 9 hours ago [-]
This is an ad for Incogni
reactordev 8 hours ago [-]
Like every pcmag article, there’s a corporate sponsor
imhoguy 6 hours ago [-]
Emotions experienced chart - that is insightful and matches my anecdata.
I think you get bad emotions when you have high expectations about social media and it is your main source of social life. Where positive happen when you have low expectations about social media and it is just addon to your life.
Example of gaps is being lonely, low self esteem, low self worth, no work network, no business network. So you stay glued to FB to build your life, to keep online friends, because you may have not many in life. Or you have no real work network so you need to stay current on LI because your next job is there.
Simulacra 9 hours ago [-]
It seems like so much of social media is just individuals shouting into the void.
HPsquared 9 hours ago [-]
It's stochastic communication, sometimes other random voices come back from the void.
jerlam 3 hours ago [-]
Social media is a skinner box for likes and reposts. You don't even want replies unless it's an opportunity to get more likes.
journal 25 minutes ago [-]
sounds conservative
kalehmann 10 hours ago [-]
Not sure if I see a bad thing in this. I'd like too know what old friends are currently up to and checking their social media has been a way to do so during the golden age of facebook.
Lately I feel more value in connecting with them personally, talking and letting them now, that I am still interested in what's going on for them.
AndrewDucker 3 hours ago [-]
That's great if you're cultivating a very small group of friends who are local.
Social media is how I keep vaguely aware of what's going on with my friends who now live scattered across the planet and get to see in person once per decade or so.
brunoarueira 9 hours ago [-]
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. At the very least, it should be used occasionally to post things as a kind of "public memory," not to expose your entire life just for likes and exhibitionism.
netsharc 9 hours ago [-]
I wonder what would happen if: if I post 2 pieces of content, my friend would have to comment on the first one to see the next one.
I suppose the app will then mostly be full of throwaway comments in the form of "Cool" or "Wow". But maybe add a modifier that if the poster doesn't have any meaningful reply to a commenter's (let's name him Elon) comment, then the poster's next content will not be shared with Elon next time.
add-sub-mul-div 6 hours ago [-]
Twitter and Reddit went hostile to their users in 2023 with their respective API and other changes. A small percentage of leaders sought out newer and better options and this time the followers stayed where they were, not wanting to start over again. But everyone talks about hating social media now and they're going slowly inactive. It's the most expected outcome.
beej71 6 hours ago [-]
We're all in small groups on discord or in signal now. FB feed is just not the best medium for keeping up with friends.
ivanjermakov 5 hours ago [-]
Idea of keeping up with friends while being public to the whole world does not resonate with me. Internet was a different place indeed.
homeonthemtn 1 hours ago [-]
I think we stopped posting because it's a miserable, unnecessary experience made worse by miserable unnecessary technology
slowmovintarget 3 hours ago [-]
Social media these days is 80% psyop, 20% attention grind. That 55% of Americans stopped posting would be a healthy thing.
znpy 9 hours ago [-]
Social media mostly polarise people (both women and men, in different ways) and generally speaking what you post will be used against you at some point.
So yeah, no wonder that social media is dying. People are just catching up to the fact that the best way not to lose is to just not play the game.
intrasight 5 hours ago [-]
Strava is now the preferred app in my social network. And no "status update" is necessary as it does that automatically.
We started out using forum software to co-ordinate what we were doing but eventually (2008-ish) switched to Facebook as the president of the club pointed out "Alex, everyone is already on Facebook and the notifications from us are in the middle of the notifications for when the next party is" etc.
Fast forward to today and the club is rebooting again. I asked the current club president "What social network is everyone on these days?" His response: "Really there is no one place where everyone goes anymore." I then asked him how clubs share their info etc and he says "The bulletin board at the student center?"
While social media definitely has its downsides (echo chambers, extremism etc) I do feel like it's a bit of a net loss to not have a "commons". That model makes it super easy to start up new organizations, get the word out etc.
Part of me hopes that we got back to the late 1990s dedicated websites/forums. That seems to be the Discord model but let's see.
There's a guy that runs multiple sports teams at a local recreation center, in multiple adult divisions (wide age/culture rage), and he has been using email to great effect for over a decade that I have known him. I get 2-3 weekly emails about teams that need a sub for a game and those spots continue to fill up quickly. He probably has the majority of regulars (in the hundreds) at that sports center on his various email list. It just works. They tried chat groups once and that was a disaster.
Part of it is just how emails work, part of it is how each clients work, part of it is people not knowing/caring.
I can go on. I went through this mess many times during the years, in various contexts; always the same result.Yes, email is the absolute best for opimal reach. All the proprietary platforms are inherently fragmented and gatekeeped by their corporations. Trying to find a common denominator is hard. Email is standard, not owned by anyone and thus universal.
https://github.com/discourse/discourse
That said: the fracturing of reasonable alternatives and the diversification of available channels is extensive and just as annoying.
While there’s no real good answer here, I wish we could more effectively solve this problem for the masses.
The Zuckerberg movie was called The Social Network. At the time we saw the likes of Facebook as networks intended to build 1-1 communications.
Since then, it’s become social Media. It’s now about centralized structures broadcasting messages to subscribers and followers. The only difference from the past is who the broadcasters can be, but it’s no longer about building networks between people.
There's a proposal to add privacy to the protocol (private posts, private groups), but I don't think anyone has solved the real root problem with trying to implement privacy in a federated system (as opposed to P2P), which is the bad administrator problem. The proposal I saw still relied on trustworthy app administrators to respect a post's privacy settings. And that's a huge flaw.
Friendica and Diaspora both have the same problem, and to my knowledge don't have a good solution for it. They both just sort of hand wave it away.
I'm waiting to see if someone comes up with a good solution for the unsafe admin problem, but so far I haven't seen one.
For me, physical communication is quickly becoming a signal that someone actually put effort into things.
Never occurred to me that Americans wouldn't have a common group chat app everyone uses. Do Americans not all use iMessage, since pretty much everybody has an iPhone there?
Apple has famously made its strategy to use iMessage to enforce exclusivity. If you want to reach everyone, it's not iMessage. And Whatsapp in the US is worse, closer to 1/3.
WhatsApp does not solve any problems for the typical American user. Most Americans don't install WhatsApp unless they spend a lot of time overseas some place where it is required to do anything. Even international group chats seem to be more Discord-based in recent years.
I'm Irish and travel back and forth a lot. First, not everyone has iPhones, Android has 40% of the market.
Older generations use Facebook to manage their clubs. I'm increasingly seeing Whatsapp and occasionally Signal for younger and more tech-savvy social circles. Facebook is non-existent in sub 35 year olds. Its just taking longer to switch over (or away from) Facebook given how tech savvy older folks are here compared to Ireland.
Or just iMessage with fallback to SMS for those not on iPhones. Unlike most of the rest of the world, iPhones dominate in the USA.
You can have two if necessary, one only for announcements and one for discussion.
Plus the notifications for chat groups are basically:
- show me everything
- don't notify me at all
- Doctors offices and official services use SMS.
- Some of my close family and friends use Signal (on my pressure).
- The distant boomers use Facebook Messenger
- With the younger people they use Snapchat.
- Almost everyone else in the country uses Whatsapp as that's the dominant messaging app.
- My friends in Berlin use Telegram
- Online communities for tinkering and foss projects require Discord.
God I miss the 2000s.
Exactly! Having to check 27 different places for messages (also add individual sites like linkedin, etc, where people message), it is completely ridiculous.
Just send me email. It's universal, standard, no corporation owns it (thus no corportation can shut me out unlike facebook or all the proprietary solutions).
No one cares about the actual choice, only that it is made.
If the actual choice requires me to install an app then I care quite a lot and will probably decline to join in.
I don't think that I am the only one who feels this way.
Unless they are chosing something super obscure and sketchy, most club members are going to be fine with the leader just saying, we're picking whatsapp, either join or dont.
Well, thanks for lobbying, that's got regulated away. One must be mad today to run a forum.
All my “social” life just moved to direct communication in WhatsApp (meta owned as well)
2013-2014 the algorithm got more foused on non-friend posts aswell as making the prioritzation less about "likes" from friends and instead some opaque engagement metrics. Groups had to "promote" post to get their prior reach to subscribers.
Also videos started to be posted around that time?
I want to fire off a quick quip and have a conversation.
Reddit is probably the only place where this works any more, but you have to be prompted by the right thread and early.
So people throw up their hands and go, "why bother?"
Before that a popular article could be shared among different friends networks to like total exposure to like everyone logged in that were somewhat interested in the article.
I was kinda a journalist then it was a really obvious flip.
That seems to be the point where most communities and social sites I'm on lost a lot of their activity/enjoyment, and where people seemed to start fading away.
Of course, increasing polarisation, an increasingly aggressive/selfish population and worries about privacy probably hit hard too.
I think you get bad emotions when you have high expectations about social media and it is your main source of social life. Where positive happen when you have low expectations about social media and it is just addon to your life.
Example of gaps is being lonely, low self esteem, low self worth, no work network, no business network. So you stay glued to FB to build your life, to keep online friends, because you may have not many in life. Or you have no real work network so you need to stay current on LI because your next job is there.
Lately I feel more value in connecting with them personally, talking and letting them now, that I am still interested in what's going on for them.
Social media is how I keep vaguely aware of what's going on with my friends who now live scattered across the planet and get to see in person once per decade or so.
I suppose the app will then mostly be full of throwaway comments in the form of "Cool" or "Wow". But maybe add a modifier that if the poster doesn't have any meaningful reply to a commenter's (let's name him Elon) comment, then the poster's next content will not be shared with Elon next time.
So yeah, no wonder that social media is dying. People are just catching up to the fact that the best way not to lose is to just not play the game.