Waymo are working towards Tokyo as well. I'm worried. Living in here, I've noticed that the taxi industry acts as an unintentional social support system. Many taxi drivers are in-between jobs or stages in life, or simply didn't fit in to the corporate life. It doesn't pay well, but it's a decent job all things considered.
I worry the death of the taxi industry means even less avenues for these people to escape to.
Of course the argument here is "well Japan should fix the corporate situation" but the current prime minister seems to be hellbent on the opposite. I think this will suck for a lot of people.
shell0x 2 hours ago [-]
A basic commuter car costs over S180,000( US135,000) due to a compulsory 10-year quota license (COE/certificate of entitlement) that alone costs S$100,000+, plus registration taxes scaling up to 320% of the car's base value. Total running costs (tolls, parking, road tax) easily add S1,000–S2,000+ per month.
Singapore is so small though and cabs are cheap and I never needed a car. I can see why Waymo will be very attractive.
vachina 2 hours ago [-]
If you never needed a car in Singapore then why is the COE so expensive? COE price is determined from a bidding process.
eru 6 minutes ago [-]
One part: the people running the taxis and Grab also need to bid for slots.
And if you have kids, being able to leave stuff in your car is pretty useful, so you might want to bid.
Though I guess the main reason is: Singapore is rich, so that drives up the bidding.
red369 1 hours ago [-]
~$100,000 every 10 years is expensive, but I think even in a lot of countries with good public transport, there would be a large number of people who would consider paying $1,000 a month to be able to have a car if that was the only way to have one. It seems to me as though a lot families share a car quite widely too.
Even in countries without an expensive on-road tax, people do often choose to pay more than $10,000 a year in depreciation cost, rather than the option of buying a car that has already gone through the early, rapid depreciation. People also choose to get a car loan, again increasing the cost. I'm fairly uninformed whether the interest on those is significant.
Of course, the COE is in addition to depreciation and maintenance, and those are both also expensive in Singapore. Plus people buy the cars through loans. And, excluding everything I've said above, the cars themselves are very expensive to buy!
As an example, a 2.0L e:HEV Honda Civic is US$195,000 including the COE, so approximately US$90,000 without it. Looking on the US Honda site, it looks like the same car is under US$33,000. There must some on-road taxes in the US, and difference in specs, but that's a big difference in price, in addition to the ~$100,000 COE.
Even knowing they're expensive, there's something I still can't get over, seeing a 6-figure price across the windscreen of a base model (and knowing you don't get to take off any zeros when doing a currency conversion to what you're used to).
eru 4 minutes ago [-]
> People also choose to get a car loan, again increasing the cost.
Sorry, could you please explain how car loans increase the cost?
> Of course, the COE is in addition to depreciation and maintenance, and those are both also expensive in Singapore. Plus people buy the cars through loans. And, excluding everything I've said above, the cars themselves are very expensive to buy!
In a sense, all these other costs don't really matter: if they increased (or dropped) by a dollar, in equilibrium the winning CoE bid would drop (respectively increase) by a dollar.
If you're well paid expat, it might not be the worst as well. You save so much on income tax in Singapore, but consumption is expensive.
I'm sure for many Singapore still comes out ahead cost wise.
eru 3 minutes ago [-]
> You save so much on income tax in Singapore, but consumption is expensive.
It depends on what you are consuming. Sins like driving, alcohol, smoking and gambling are expensive. But the daily essentials aren't all that expensive, especially eating out starts very low.
shell0x 2 hours ago [-]
I said I never needed a car there :) I can get anywhere by cab in like < 30 mins so I never saw the need to have one. However there are plenty of ultra rich people living there and also many driving luxury cars. It's also a status symbol there(Credit card/Condo/Car).
eru 2 minutes ago [-]
Condos are for the middle class. Landed property is the status symbol (but, alas, it doesn't start with a C.)
Btw, the cab obviously need to bid for CoE as well.
despite the convenience of a well-run public transport system and uber-like services, the ease and freedom of owning your own transport is still hard to beat, and evidently worth the ~75k dollar COE. it removes the walk from bus/subway stations under the tropical/sun, humidity; and the wait (typically 5-10min) of waiting for your uber/taxi driver to showup and enduring the uber car smell (often heavily scented for some reason and triggers my allergic reaction) and someone else's music. and once you have children a car is almost a must.
shalmanese 1 hours ago [-]
A lot of people get a car when they have kids as taking grab with a car seat can be unwieldy. Also, COE wasn’t always $100K, many people are still on legacy COE when it was $30-$50K
normie3000 36 minutes ago [-]
Are car seats mandatory for children in taxis in Singapore?
rossriley 3 minutes ago [-]
For the official taxis they are not, but for ride hailing taxis like Grab/Gojek they are.
immawizard 13 minutes ago [-]
Only for the children you want to keep after car crash.
shell0x 1 hours ago [-]
That's a good call-out actually. I haven't thought of people with kids.
zhivota 37 minutes ago [-]
One note, taxis are exempt from car seat laws and you can book them on demand via grab or the taxi company apps. That's what we did, it's a slight risk but so is life.
red369 20 minutes ago [-]
Are taxis exempt, but car-sharing like Grab not exempt? I have seen Grab drivers turn down taking a child without a car seat a few times.
jimmydef 2 hours ago [-]
The utility of a car in singapore is very different from other places. Yes, a car will get you faster from point A to point B in singapore when compared to public transport. But you can get a private hire car or a taxi which is just as fast and is probably much more convenient.
For many people in Singapore, a car's real utility is to signal status. More often than not, this status gets you real-life benefits. Such as increased dating success.
jnaina 16 minutes ago [-]
For Singapore's boomers, success once meant the 5 Cs: cash, car, credit card, condominium and country club. For today's young Singaporeans, these no longer define success.
fhe 1 hours ago [-]
interestingly enough though, car ownership, and even having a driver's license is increasingly less common among the young.
jimmydef 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, because when adjusted to car ownership costs, the young have a lower purchasing power when compared to the older generation at the same age back then.
itemize123 1 hours ago [-]
it's easy to want one
merek 1 hours ago [-]
> cabs are cheap
Everyone says that but I've had the opposite experience, possibly due to my location (near Orchard Rd). Can easily pay $15 to essentially go around the corner.
Shank 55 minutes ago [-]
> Can easily pay $15 to essentially go around the corner.
Would it not be better to simply walk if the distance is essentially around the corner?
red369 11 minutes ago [-]
I love walking - checking distance tracking on my phone, I walked over 20km in a day a couple of weeks ago. But when it's hot in Singapore, the distances I don't want to walk can become crazy-short at times.
I'm hesitating to judge someone taking a ride-share around the corner. Among many other reasons, I can imagine scenarios where someone would think it worth paying to not arrive a sweaty mess.
38 minutes ago [-]
adt 34 minutes ago [-]
Ever tried walking around the corner when it's 35C (95F) and 90% humidity?
mathisfun123 19 minutes ago [-]
Yes? All the time in South Florida.
VanillaCafe 39 minutes ago [-]
It's called a lower bound.
ExoticPearTree 13 minutes ago [-]
Well, to be petty, people living in Orchard Rd. don’t care about 15 dollars (be it US or SG).
jesterson 54 minutes ago [-]
How much do you pay for around the corner ride in any comparable large metropolis?
tgrowazay 34 minutes ago [-]
Just checked Uber in Los Angeles - it costs $6.95 to go around the corner.
rottencupcakes 2 hours ago [-]
Singapore has the potential to be the first country to eliminate the private ownership of vehicles.
tristanj 2 hours ago [-]
Singapore will not be the first. Albania banned private vehicle ownership for over 40 years until 1991.
nmfisher 1 hours ago [-]
Bet you they won't, because many (most?) Singaporeans think that owning a car is somehow a life achievement.
ExoticPearTree 11 minutes ago [-]
To add a bit more context: owning a car in Singapore is extremely expensive, basically meaning that if can afford that, “you made it”.
2 hours ago [-]
zergrush 48 minutes ago [-]
Why is this something to be celebrated? Private ownership of land, property too ?
elil17 27 minutes ago [-]
Because privately owned vehicles kill literally one million people every year.
jesterson 52 minutes ago [-]
They already effectively done that with COE. You essentially own piece of metal, which is only roadworthy if you pay $$$
evbogue 1 hours ago [-]
Singapore would do better banning cars altogether.
throwaway473825 1 hours ago [-]
Isn't it better to allow a few luxury cars that are taxed to oblivion? As long as there aren't too many cars, the city can be pleasant, and it's a nice source of revenue.
Gigachad 39 minutes ago [-]
What I have heard of the situation is car infrastructure is disproportionally funded because it's used by the rich and influential. It's a drain on public resources when more is spent building huge highways everywhere that the average person can't afford to use.
zhivota 33 minutes ago [-]
While this is true, it's not as bad as somewhere like the US. Public transit gets a lot of funding there, I think they open something like 10 new MRT stations a year on average in recent years, and buses typically come every 2-8 minutes so you never have to wait long.
jnaina 31 minutes ago [-]
Cars are extremely expensive in Singapore, and driving here is becoming increasingly frustrating, what with constant road congestions, seemingly endless roadworks, and inconsiderate drivers, some of whom appear never to have heard of turn signals.
Seriously considering selling our family’s 3 petrol cars and replacing them with a small EV (byd racco, if it ever comes to Singapore) only for grocery runs, especially if Waymo becomes a reality here. I’m not a fan of the inconsistent experience offered by Singapore’s private-hire operators, such as Grab, where poorly maintained vehicles and questionable driving standards are not uncommon.
I also hope Waymo eventually uses the China made Zeekr Ojai in Singapore rather than the Jaguar I-Pace.
ozgrakkurt 28 minutes ago [-]
Isn't public transport good enough?
jnaina 25 minutes ago [-]
Unfortunately the nearest MRT station is at least a 30 mins walk from where we live.
orsenthil 2 hours ago [-]
Singapore is a controlled economy, and has a large workforce for Taxi Drivers and part-time drivers through Grab. I am not sure how the entrenchment of robotaxis like Waymo (and future tesla) is going to play with the general population. My guess, they will co-exist as the government wont jeopardize the living of the taxi-driver-complaining uncles.
Also, I notice a lot new SF based AI companies have started establishing their offices in Singapore too. Sierra, and Fireworks coming to my mind. As government plays a huge part in Singapore, I guess, government noticing these as necessary investments for the future of Singapore.
dyllon 49 minutes ago [-]
> My guess, they will co-exist as the government wont jeopardize the living of the taxi-driver-complaining uncles.
Singapore will do what they always do, which is take a measured approach and control every aspect of the roll out. If they're allowing this, it's because they've already modeled a shortfall in taxi drivers in the future, and they'll keep the number of licenses for each type in balance to meet their goals.
pydry 15 minutes ago [-]
Judging by the depressing number of elderly selling tissues in food courts to get by I dont think the government ever really cared about eliminating service jobs.
It's enough for them that those people have somewhere basic to live and basic medical care so their stats dont look too bad.
aurareturn 28 minutes ago [-]
Been seeing Waymo test cars in Tokyo.
cranky908canuck 3 hours ago [-]
Must be early in the process, most if not all the photos and graphics where the driving side is visible show North American side driving.
goatsi 2 hours ago [-]
They are apparently up to two years out from carrying passengers
"Waymo said it will introduce its fully autonomous, all-electric ride-hailing service in Singapore via the Waymo app by 2028.
An initial fleet of all-electric Jaguar I-PACE vehicles is expected to arrive in the coming months, it said.
Mapping and validation activities are scheduled for 2027, with trained autonomous specialists conducting initial manual driving to adapt the Waymo Driver to local road geometry, monsoon weather patterns, and more. "
Is that super old i-Pace even still in production?
jeffbee 52 minutes ago [-]
No, but production ceased pretty recently and Waymo still has an inventory of them with zero miles.
vineyardmike 2 hours ago [-]
What do you mean? There’s very few images of a car driving, but the roads seem to be correct. Some of the images are definitely generic marketing copy and not Singapore specific, but it seems fairly obvious which ones.
Unless you mean the steering wheel is on the wrong side, but that seems like it wouldn’t matter for an autonomous vehicle.
vachina 2 hours ago [-]
This thing is DOA if it only does predetermined route, which I think is what's going to happen.
danpalmer 2 hours ago [-]
Why do you think that? Waymo hasn't done that anywhere else.
Rendered at 06:39:38 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
I worry the death of the taxi industry means even less avenues for these people to escape to.
Of course the argument here is "well Japan should fix the corporate situation" but the current prime minister seems to be hellbent on the opposite. I think this will suck for a lot of people.
Singapore is so small though and cabs are cheap and I never needed a car. I can see why Waymo will be very attractive.
And if you have kids, being able to leave stuff in your car is pretty useful, so you might want to bid.
Though I guess the main reason is: Singapore is rich, so that drives up the bidding.
Even in countries without an expensive on-road tax, people do often choose to pay more than $10,000 a year in depreciation cost, rather than the option of buying a car that has already gone through the early, rapid depreciation. People also choose to get a car loan, again increasing the cost. I'm fairly uninformed whether the interest on those is significant.
Of course, the COE is in addition to depreciation and maintenance, and those are both also expensive in Singapore. Plus people buy the cars through loans. And, excluding everything I've said above, the cars themselves are very expensive to buy!
As an example, a 2.0L e:HEV Honda Civic is US$195,000 including the COE, so approximately US$90,000 without it. Looking on the US Honda site, it looks like the same car is under US$33,000. There must some on-road taxes in the US, and difference in specs, but that's a big difference in price, in addition to the ~$100,000 COE.
Even knowing they're expensive, there's something I still can't get over, seeing a 6-figure price across the windscreen of a base model (and knowing you don't get to take off any zeros when doing a currency conversion to what you're used to).
Sorry, could you please explain how car loans increase the cost?
> Of course, the COE is in addition to depreciation and maintenance, and those are both also expensive in Singapore. Plus people buy the cars through loans. And, excluding everything I've said above, the cars themselves are very expensive to buy!
In a sense, all these other costs don't really matter: if they increased (or dropped) by a dollar, in equilibrium the winning CoE bid would drop (respectively increase) by a dollar.
If you're well paid expat, it might not be the worst as well. You save so much on income tax in Singapore, but consumption is expensive.
I'm sure for many Singapore still comes out ahead cost wise.
It depends on what you are consuming. Sins like driving, alcohol, smoking and gambling are expensive. But the daily essentials aren't all that expensive, especially eating out starts very low.
Btw, the cab obviously need to bid for CoE as well.
For many people in Singapore, a car's real utility is to signal status. More often than not, this status gets you real-life benefits. Such as increased dating success.
Everyone says that but I've had the opposite experience, possibly due to my location (near Orchard Rd). Can easily pay $15 to essentially go around the corner.
Would it not be better to simply walk if the distance is essentially around the corner?
I'm hesitating to judge someone taking a ride-share around the corner. Among many other reasons, I can imagine scenarios where someone would think it worth paying to not arrive a sweaty mess.
Seriously considering selling our family’s 3 petrol cars and replacing them with a small EV (byd racco, if it ever comes to Singapore) only for grocery runs, especially if Waymo becomes a reality here. I’m not a fan of the inconsistent experience offered by Singapore’s private-hire operators, such as Grab, where poorly maintained vehicles and questionable driving standards are not uncommon.
I also hope Waymo eventually uses the China made Zeekr Ojai in Singapore rather than the Jaguar I-Pace.
Also, I notice a lot new SF based AI companies have started establishing their offices in Singapore too. Sierra, and Fireworks coming to my mind. As government plays a huge part in Singapore, I guess, government noticing these as necessary investments for the future of Singapore.
It’s been mentioned: https://www.mot.gov.sg/news-resources/newsroom/-more-options...
Singapore is a mixed economy [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore
It's enough for them that those people have somewhere basic to live and basic medical care so their stats dont look too bad.
"Waymo said it will introduce its fully autonomous, all-electric ride-hailing service in Singapore via the Waymo app by 2028.
An initial fleet of all-electric Jaguar I-PACE vehicles is expected to arrive in the coming months, it said.
Mapping and validation activities are scheduled for 2027, with trained autonomous specialists conducting initial manual driving to adapt the Waymo Driver to local road geometry, monsoon weather patterns, and more. "
https://mothership.sg/2026/09/waymo-self-driving-cars-singap...
Unless you mean the steering wheel is on the wrong side, but that seems like it wouldn’t matter for an autonomous vehicle.