This is stuff on the level of O&O ShutUp10.
Which is a good tool, but also, a Windows tool for very (back in the day) Windows-specific nonsense.
What's going on at Apple product strategy?
userbinator 29 minutes ago [-]
It's interesting to see more customisation tools appearing for macOS, as just a few years ago I was looking for ways to strip down the OS (CI related), and while such info was widely available in the Windows world, to the point that customised "distros" are available, it was nearly nonexistent for macOS; only the Hackintosh community had some useful articles on how things worked.
Could the rise of LLMs and vibe-coding have motivated people who otherwise wouldn't bother?
gumby 19 minutes ago [-]
It’s hard to strip it down these days as the OS image and its core, immutable filesystem cannot be edited. Admittedly this helps keep idiots from destroying their filesystem and also blocks many malware attacks on the system, but, for example. I don’t believe you can delete the chess program.
23 minutes ago [-]
nailer 12 minutes ago [-]
> Every release is built from its tag by GitHub Actions and carries a build provenance attestation.
Huh cool. They're doing curl | bash properly.
the_arun 22 minutes ago [-]
How do we believe this tool? Is it secure?
pyaamb 20 minutes ago [-]
Is there a way to do this manually?
pietz 10 minutes ago [-]
This should have been a prompt.
iAMkenough 2 minutes ago [-]
Now I just need a tool that restores the ability to customize the Siri shortcut on my keyboard.
I want to hold command+space like pre-Golden Gate allowed for, since that's what my muscle memory is trained on.
neuroelectron 12 minutes ago [-]
Not a lot of good reasons to upgrade to 27. They removed Rosetta and you have to reinstall that if you want it. So is MacOS turning into something that more regular people are going to have to maintain in the future or end up with something like Windows 11?
I switched to MacOS 3 years ago because of Microsoft and the writing on the wall seems to say I got another year left before I'm forced into Linux. Because if I have to maintain my own OS then I might as well install Linux and do it once.
halJordan 8 minutes ago [-]
If a temporary tool being retired is the reason you switch, then wait until you find out how many LOC are being deleted from the linux kernel this year and next
“You wouldn't run a stranger's code without reading it.” Yes I would. We all do it all the time. macOS itself is closed source, and even if it weren't, there’s way too much code to read.
jtrueb 54 minutes ago [-]
Lol, thinking the exact same thing. No, we don’t read next to 0.0001% of the code we run.
jacquesm 31 minutes ago [-]
Code from trusted repositories is an entirely different thing compared to running 'wget some_github_repo_shell_script | sh' . That said, the likes of Tailscale are setting a bad example.
halJordan 6 minutes ago [-]
You download a dmg and run it blindly? You download an exe and run it blindly. I wish it were in an rpm or deb coming from signed repos, but it's not so here we are
nvme0n1p1 11 minutes ago [-]
The script, and the code the script downloads, both come from the same repo and were written by the same developer.
If you've already decided you trust the author, what's the actual threat here?
jacquesm 8 minutes ago [-]
I would not trust the author just like that.
But then again, I'm a bit paranoid. At a minimum I would download the script and read it, and if it was too long or not written clearly enough then I would just drop it and find something better.
user43928 2 minutes ago [-]
I think the point is that when a repo contains:
program.bin
install.sh
It seems rather pointless for me to thoroughly inspect the install script before I run the program.
tmpz22 51 minutes ago [-]
Don’t be obtuse, the intended audience is developers with enterprise credentials sprinkled throughout their environment.
Its a different threat model. You should not curl bash.
benterix 20 minutes ago [-]
Developers with enterprise credentials sprinkled throughout their environment running anything from the Internet deserve what they get.
But I assumed the intended audience are home users with entry level macbooks/minis with 128 GB RAM where this patch actually helps them.
packeted 45 minutes ago [-]
Great initiative. I recently got stung by an advert on reddit for "HBO Max for MacOS, 6 months free" from the official HBO user (don't get me started on how that slipped through). Front and center was a curl | bash copy to clipboard that obfuscated the payload source in base10. I knew better, but I think we've made this kind of thing way too acceptable. Of course it was malware and I realized the instant I pressed enter. Thankfully I didn't give it my password and immediately disconnected from the internet and killed the machine. I'm genuinely concerned these kind of attacks are going to become much more commonplace with AI, plus the ability to inject malicious code in to things that get run by trusted scripted installers.
andelink 28 minutes ago [-]
You curled and executed bash code allegedly from _HBO_?
swozey 43 minutes ago [-]
They all dump env and ship it off so check for any keys you might have had in there if anything was able to send at all.
demibabs 1 hours ago [-]
Good message but AI generated text is so grating to read.
maccard 43 minutes ago [-]
What’s your suggested installation method instead? Unless it’s “download and read the source before running it” this is no worse than npm install, or pip install, or clicking “trust” on a git repo in VSCode
mingus88 34 minutes ago [-]
It is actually worse than those examples. Pip and npm may be insecure, and that is a fault of those tools, but most user expect secure package managers and should demand it
Telling users it’s fine to raw dog arbitrary commands directly into their shell is dangerous and lowers the bar for all security. In fact by even making this comparison you are communicating that you are complacent with pip and npm’s issues and why shouldn’t you just execute arbitrary commands without even a second glance? Security doesn’t matter!
And for the record, even with pip and npm being the way that they are, they are still better than a curl pipe because they are versioned. In the case I get a compromised deployment I understand immediately if I got hit by the affected package, and the entire repo can then be audited. Not the case when I’m just curling whatever the internet wants to send into my process space
stock_toaster 17 minutes ago [-]
Why is this even an app? It looks like it just generates a mobileconfig profile on the fly. Instead, seems like they could be offering a download of a pre-generated mobileconfig, which seems like it would be much safer than installing some app via curl|bash .... but then I guess there wouldn't be a chance to have an "app", get github stars, and do whatever else.
zakki 24 minutes ago [-]
Fed the source to LLM for analysis?
mogwire 45 minutes ago [-]
I bet this is the guy on the call who has to correct someone who calls them SSL certs.
Excuse me, they are TLS certs.
Thanks Arialdomartini, as I was saying… we need to renew the SSL
Certs
porridgeraisin 33 minutes ago [-]
> Bash starts before the download finishes ... Drop the connection mid-transfer and you get partial execution: a command like rm -r /usr/share/program can truncate to rm -r /usr. Commands ran, cleanup didn’t.
curl | bash scripts all define a function and then call it on the last line. This is a non issue in the real world.
> The server knows you’re piping — and can lie
This `sleep` based trick is always a cool demo to show freinds yes, but the server can also sneak in malware in a multitude of other ways given you're downloading code and binaries from them.
> You trust DNS, TLS, the CDN, and the origin simultaneously. A compromised CDN or BGP hijack delivers malware silently.
Well yes, that's how the internet works. If TLS of the server is really compromised, then the attacker will replace the checksum as well as the signing key. In real scenarios, you are going to be reading the signing key and checksum from the same domain. [1]
> You can’t reproduce what ran
`| tee inspect.sh | bash`
> Add sudo and it’s game over
Most credentials and important files live in the home directory, root is a red herring. If you're running it on shared server, then well... don't add sudo.
[1] Yes of course there are legitimate usecases for signing software. Common example: linux distros which are mirrored at many domains, but the checksum and signature are hosted on the canonical domain. But if I am curlbashing uv's install.sh from `astral.sh`, then doing signature verification using the public key hosted on the same astral.sh isn't adding much.
Terr_ 14 minutes ago [-]
I think that's missing the forest for trees. The problem with these curl-to-bash approaches is not that you are literally unable to intercept and inspect them with enough effort and planning.
The problem is that:
1. The effort and care needed to test is unnecessarily high. You've got to guard against way more tricks from an interactive source that can see you and choose what it's going to deliver and how.
2. With no "standard" artifact that can be exactly compared, that work cannot be shared.
In contrast, release_1.2.3.zip isn't going to mutate under you and everybody can agree on what its size/hash/bytes ought to be, and if it deviates from that it sets off alarm-bells.
> curl | bash scripts all define a function and then call it on the last line. This is a non issue in the real world.
Why would a convention often followed by good/careful actors bind what malicious/careless people create?
hnfong 16 minutes ago [-]
> curl | bash scripts all define a function and then call it on the last line. This is a non issue in the real world.
Which installs via a random 3rd party tap, which honestly isn't much better than yolo curl|bash.
aaomidi 47 minutes ago [-]
This isn’t really that much of an issue when we have tls tbh.
Like I get why it’s bad, but also homebrew package installation is a more organized version of this.
Hashes are cool but also in a lot of systems you’re trusting the hash to be provided by the same website you don’t trust the binaries from…
hypeatei 45 minutes ago [-]
> If the project publishes a SHA-256 hash, use it. Non-negotiable on production machines.
They're pushing FUD around downloading a file but then suggest that we trust the same chain of complex things to display the right hash value? Integrity != authentication.
46 minutes ago [-]
behnamoh 1 hours ago [-]
Oh, things are about to get worse with the new macOS "privacy/security" measures. They are going to curb agentic workflows even more. I don't know how Apple just finds new ways to annoy developers, but we're in a minority after all. Of 200 million Mac users, probably just up to 1 million are developers, and the rest are normies who can't tell when they should authorize or cancel the pop-up.
doawoo 59 minutes ago [-]
I'd argue that a lot of developers can't determine if an LLM generated command is actually safe or not.
fmajid 32 minutes ago [-]
It’s not about privacy, it’s about kneecapping competitors, just like when they blocked the advertising ID but exempted themselves from this because “Apple is not a third-party, we’re a second-party”.
Apple is an advertising company and thus inherently untrustworthy.
51 minutes ago [-]
ultrarunner 33 minutes ago [-]
With LLMs, everyone's a developer now. Welcome to the mainstream.
wartywhoa23 58 minutes ago [-]
Ah, if only that meant that there'll be less slop in the macOS code itself..
NamlchakKhandro 52 minutes ago [-]
Apple hates developers
pjmlp 40 minutes ago [-]
They love the ones that buy Apple hardware to develop apps for iDevices, pay the dev subscription and store fees for apps, or simply because they wanted a shiny UNIX and don't consider BSD/Linux OEMs worth their money.
bigyabai 1 hours ago [-]
Something horrible must have happened, if macOS users are curling shell scripts from the internet to make their desktops more like Linux.
trollbridge 42 minutes ago [-]
curl|bash is now standard way to install packages on both macOS and Linux. It’s maddening, but it is now.
pjmlp 39 minutes ago [-]
Meanwhile on Windows we mostly use the store or winget, funny times.
trollbridge 28 minutes ago [-]
Yeah. I think of Windows as basically “homebrew comes preinstalled”.
31 minutes ago [-]
drnick1 40 minutes ago [-]
Uncomfortable, but true.
GNOME has reached maturity and hasn't changed significantly in years, while Apple is busy destroying macOS.
dijit 28 minutes ago [-]
Really? GNOME is not what I would recommend to people.
I should applaud their efforts, and I get that much of it is voluntary, but their bugs are numerous, notable and the way they interact with the rest of the universe (both people with accessibility needs, and the wider developer ecosystem on linux) can most accurately be described as arrogant and hostile.
KDE is the bastion of maturity here, and I would agree that it is mature.
I’m not sure how the love for GNOME continues when KDE (while not my personal choice) has clearly been running circles around it since GNOME3 and the gap has only widened since that change too.
bigyabai 9 minutes ago [-]
Both desktops are pretty mature. I've run both of their Wayland stacks, and Mutter/KWin both perform great these days. It really comes down to personal preference for most use-cases.
nomel 54 minutes ago [-]
Nope. The only people who notice or care about any of this are those who can't accommodate the storage. Outside that, it all just works better now (especially Siri).
trollbridge 41 minutes ago [-]
People with 256GB laptops care when the 27 AI stuff burns up 10-20% of their storage.
GeekyBear 38 minutes ago [-]
So don't install Chrome.
trollbridge 27 minutes ago [-]
Most people want Chrome for the inevitable site that doesn’t work in Safari.
The problem is Apple intelligence is decent, but not worth 20% of your storage decent.
behnamoh 52 minutes ago [-]
Saying that Siri "works" is peak Apple fanboism.
internet2000 1 minutes ago [-]
The new one just works. Do try it.
nvme0n1p1 6 minutes ago [-]
Also "those who can't accommodate the storage" is funny.
What's that? You didn't pay Apple's 1200% markup on storage, so you can have enough room for your actual work after the OS fills your disk with a bunch of bloat? What are you, poor?
swozey 46 minutes ago [-]
I'm sick of juggling disk space on my 1tb laptop AND I don't want an llm attack vector anywhere near my machine, this things getting nuked from orbit or i'm not updating to golden gate, ever.
Rendered at 21:23:50 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
What's going on at Apple product strategy?
Could the rise of LLMs and vibe-coding have motivated people who otherwise wouldn't bother?
Huh cool. They're doing curl | bash properly.
I want to hold command+space like pre-Golden Gate allowed for, since that's what my muscle memory is trained on.
I switched to MacOS 3 years ago because of Microsoft and the writing on the wall seems to say I got another year left before I'm forced into Linux. Because if I have to maintain my own OS then I might as well install Linux and do it once.
https://nocurlbash.com/#en
If you've already decided you trust the author, what's the actual threat here?
But then again, I'm a bit paranoid. At a minimum I would download the script and read it, and if it was too long or not written clearly enough then I would just drop it and find something better.
Its a different threat model. You should not curl bash.
But I assumed the intended audience are home users with entry level macbooks/minis with 128 GB RAM where this patch actually helps them.
Telling users it’s fine to raw dog arbitrary commands directly into their shell is dangerous and lowers the bar for all security. In fact by even making this comparison you are communicating that you are complacent with pip and npm’s issues and why shouldn’t you just execute arbitrary commands without even a second glance? Security doesn’t matter!
And for the record, even with pip and npm being the way that they are, they are still better than a curl pipe because they are versioned. In the case I get a compromised deployment I understand immediately if I got hit by the affected package, and the entire repo can then be audited. Not the case when I’m just curling whatever the internet wants to send into my process space
Excuse me, they are TLS certs.
Thanks Arialdomartini, as I was saying… we need to renew the SSL Certs
curl | bash scripts all define a function and then call it on the last line. This is a non issue in the real world.
> The server knows you’re piping — and can lie
This `sleep` based trick is always a cool demo to show freinds yes, but the server can also sneak in malware in a multitude of other ways given you're downloading code and binaries from them.
> You trust DNS, TLS, the CDN, and the origin simultaneously. A compromised CDN or BGP hijack delivers malware silently.
Well yes, that's how the internet works. If TLS of the server is really compromised, then the attacker will replace the checksum as well as the signing key. In real scenarios, you are going to be reading the signing key and checksum from the same domain. [1]
> You can’t reproduce what ran
`| tee inspect.sh | bash`
> Add sudo and it’s game over
Most credentials and important files live in the home directory, root is a red herring. If you're running it on shared server, then well... don't add sudo.
[1] Yes of course there are legitimate usecases for signing software. Common example: linux distros which are mirrored at many domains, but the checksum and signature are hosted on the canonical domain. But if I am curlbashing uv's install.sh from `astral.sh`, then doing signature verification using the public key hosted on the same astral.sh isn't adding much.
The problem is that:
1. The effort and care needed to test is unnecessarily high. You've got to guard against way more tricks from an interactive source that can see you and choose what it's going to deliver and how.
2. With no "standard" artifact that can be exactly compared, that work cannot be shared.
In contrast, release_1.2.3.zip isn't going to mutate under you and everybody can agree on what its size/hash/bytes ought to be, and if it deviates from that it sets off alarm-bells.
> curl | bash scripts all define a function and then call it on the last line. This is a non issue in the real world.
Why would a convention often followed by good/careful actors bind what malicious/careless people create?
Please take a look at this before making any assertions... https://github.com/omlahore/RemoveMacAI/blob/main/install.sh
Like I get why it’s bad, but also homebrew package installation is a more organized version of this.
Hashes are cool but also in a lot of systems you’re trusting the hash to be provided by the same website you don’t trust the binaries from…
They're pushing FUD around downloading a file but then suggest that we trust the same chain of complex things to display the right hash value? Integrity != authentication.
Apple is an advertising company and thus inherently untrustworthy.
GNOME has reached maturity and hasn't changed significantly in years, while Apple is busy destroying macOS.
I should applaud their efforts, and I get that much of it is voluntary, but their bugs are numerous, notable and the way they interact with the rest of the universe (both people with accessibility needs, and the wider developer ecosystem on linux) can most accurately be described as arrogant and hostile.
KDE is the bastion of maturity here, and I would agree that it is mature.
I’m not sure how the love for GNOME continues when KDE (while not my personal choice) has clearly been running circles around it since GNOME3 and the gap has only widened since that change too.
The problem is Apple intelligence is decent, but not worth 20% of your storage decent.
What's that? You didn't pay Apple's 1200% markup on storage, so you can have enough room for your actual work after the OS fills your disk with a bunch of bloat? What are you, poor?