“Source control for huge monorepos has prior art, notably Google’s Piper and Meta’s Sapling, so we were able to build Scion with their hard-won lessons in mind.”
Mononoke is a component of Sapling, as I understand it. In fact, the repo link provided in this article links to a subdirectory of the Sapling repo. I’m not totally sure I understand the complaint.
sunshowers 18 minutes ago [-]
The level of inspiration goes well beyond "hard-won lessons". Something like Lore (slop design document aside) can claim that level of inspiration. Here the data model is a direct copy, down to the terminology.
To be uncharitable, this is marketing for Anthropic's impending IPO.
whiplash451 13 minutes ago [-]
I see correlation instead. You IPO when you grow like crazy. You build something like scion when you grow like crazy.
teaearlgraycold 14 minutes ago [-]
> hard-won lessons in mind
Another Claude-written article
bayindirh 10 minutes ago [-]
> Another Claude-written article
This is the load-bearing seam.
MeetingsBrowser 3 minutes ago [-]
When Fable first released, I had it "one shot" a project using an initial spec and a team of agents. I was blown away with how good the results were.
And then I noticed some links to images from random small github projects and realized somewhere along the way agents had searched for existing projects and copied almost everything.
I wonder if something similar happened here on a larger scale.
6879346626 24 minutes ago [-]
Is this what is expected of how to cite sources? Because if this is the expectation nobody does it.
There are two cases and only one is an issue for citations:
- Mononoke was directly consulted and not attributed
- Concepts were reinvented or used as a derivative (Sapling cited Mononoke and implements something similar)
For one I know Sapling, Git, and Jujutsu, but up to today I have never heard of Oxide or Mononoke and I am not exactly compelled to look up the research papers of any of them, at most I read through their high level documentation.
sunshowers 22 minutes ago [-]
To be clear, Mononoke is the server-side part of the Sapling system as deployed at Meta. Scion appears to be very closely inspired by Mononoke.
wakamoleguy 18 minutes ago [-]
Agents tend to act differently than humans here. I would have expected most humans to notice and acknowledge the connection. Passing it off as one's own insight definitely feels like plagiarism. Agents are generally not equipped to deal with this type of thing, since looking for prior art is a detour from their goal or an exercise in post-hoc rationalization of knowledge built into the weights.
Whether it is plagiarism or hacking, the buck has to stop with the operators. It's not a good look.
mad_vill 34 minutes ago [-]
Oh wow. Being pretty new to meta and seeing the anthropic announcement I was thinking to myself “wow that sounds a lot like sapling”.
I guess that is the case.
flakiness 5 minutes ago [-]
Can anyone explain the difference between sampling vs mononoke?
Edit: I was too lazy. From the README: "Mononoke is the server built for the Sapling Source Control System"
sunshowers 2 minutes ago [-]
It's a bit complicated:
1. Sapling can refer to either the system as a whole, or just the client people use (`sl`, forked from `hg`).
2. EdenFS is the virtualized FUSE filesystem (closely modeled after SrcFS at Google).
3. Mononoke is the distributed system that implements the backend server storage + the API they describe for checkout-less writes.
All three come together to form the core of the Meta source control experience. From what I can tell, Anthropic built its own version of 1 and copied 2 and 3, plus also built out a code review tool separately.
cmrx64 11 minutes ago [-]
hi rain :) Anthropic’s post reminded me a lot of your work, glad this is getting some visibility. do you think the “time has come” for some of these ideas that previously may not have spread because they need too much learning to appreciate? I wonder what new norms will emerge in creative collectives.
duhhhhh1212 47 minutes ago [-]
Damn. It’s hard not to see it as plagiarism. I can only imagine the surprised Pikachu face you must have made reading that announcement from Anthropic.
dboreham 22 minutes ago [-]
Similar to how git was "inspired by" BitKeeper and Monotone?
sunshowers 20 minutes ago [-]
I do not think Linus has ever claimed that Git wasn't following in the footsteps of those systems.
InsideOutSanta 18 minutes ago [-]
Neither has Anthropic. They mention Sapling as an inspiration.
sunshowers 17 minutes ago [-]
Scion is far more similar to Mononoke than Git is to BitKeeper.
nomel 4 minutes ago [-]
It's totally wild seeing entities being criticized for writing software based on/very similar to other open source software. Ffs, this used to be what open source software was about. It was actually the fucking point [1].
> And, to be clear, I do not have a problem with Anthropic copying Mononoke’s design. (This is part of why we put out open source — to benefit humanity through the spread of good ideas.)
Followed by:
> But as LLMs continue to assist in designing new systems, they are likely to index heavily on existing designs. Mononoke is open source and in every LLM’s training set. If you ask Opus 5.5 or GPT-6 Astra (thanks Matthew Fowle) about prior art, they both immediately point out the similarities to Mononoke.
I think it is the duty of any responsible engineer to look for and cite prior art and related work, if only to compare notes.
forrestthewoods 13 minutes ago [-]
I really really wish Sapling could be used externally. It is by-and-large TheWay.
Centralized, virtual file system, all commits automatically on cloud, large binary files totally fine, Mercurial CLI. It’s fantastic. People who only use Git really don’t understand how much better things can be.
Shish2k 7 minutes ago [-]
Working for a few years at Facebook, and then returning to the normal world, it was like stepping back in time -- I really think that the mainstream git culture (by which I mostly mean "github") achieved a local maxima around 2012, and has been holding the industry back since :(
(Like GH finally has some support for stacks, 15 years late, with an implementation which is somehow more complicated and less powerful than the prior art...)
wetpaws 25 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
gizajob 27 minutes ago [-]
This headline is very confusing for fans of Basic Channel / Chain Reaction records.
fhdkweig 5 minutes ago [-]
It is also confusing to fans of Studio Ghibli.
Rendered at 21:30:48 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
“Source control for huge monorepos has prior art, notably Google’s Piper and Meta’s Sapling, so we were able to build Scion with their hard-won lessons in mind.”
Mononoke is a component of Sapling, as I understand it. In fact, the repo link provided in this article links to a subdirectory of the Sapling repo. I’m not totally sure I understand the complaint.
To be uncharitable, this is marketing for Anthropic's impending IPO.
Another Claude-written article
This is the load-bearing seam.
And then I noticed some links to images from random small github projects and realized somewhere along the way agents had searched for existing projects and copied almost everything.
I wonder if something similar happened here on a larger scale.
There are two cases and only one is an issue for citations: - Mononoke was directly consulted and not attributed - Concepts were reinvented or used as a derivative (Sapling cited Mononoke and implements something similar)
For one I know Sapling, Git, and Jujutsu, but up to today I have never heard of Oxide or Mononoke and I am not exactly compelled to look up the research papers of any of them, at most I read through their high level documentation.
Whether it is plagiarism or hacking, the buck has to stop with the operators. It's not a good look.
I guess that is the case.
Edit: I was too lazy. From the README: "Mononoke is the server built for the Sapling Source Control System"
1. Sapling can refer to either the system as a whole, or just the client people use (`sl`, forked from `hg`).
2. EdenFS is the virtualized FUSE filesystem (closely modeled after SrcFS at Google).
3. Mononoke is the distributed system that implements the backend server storage + the API they describe for checkout-less writes.
All three come together to form the core of the Meta source control experience. From what I can tell, Anthropic built its own version of 1 and copied 2 and 3, plus also built out a code review tool separately.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software_movement
> And, to be clear, I do not have a problem with Anthropic copying Mononoke’s design. (This is part of why we put out open source — to benefit humanity through the spread of good ideas.)
Followed by:
> But as LLMs continue to assist in designing new systems, they are likely to index heavily on existing designs. Mononoke is open source and in every LLM’s training set. If you ask Opus 5.5 or GPT-6 Astra (thanks Matthew Fowle) about prior art, they both immediately point out the similarities to Mononoke.
I think it is the duty of any responsible engineer to look for and cite prior art and related work, if only to compare notes.
Centralized, virtual file system, all commits automatically on cloud, large binary files totally fine, Mercurial CLI. It’s fantastic. People who only use Git really don’t understand how much better things can be.
(Like GH finally has some support for stacks, 15 years late, with an implementation which is somehow more complicated and less powerful than the prior art...)