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▲Elevated errors on claude.ai, Claude Code, and platform.claude.com (status.claude.com)
Topfi 10 hours ago [-]
Depending on what your job is, this is either the adult equivalent of a snow day or some of the greatest stress in a long time.

I have experienced, half a decade ago during some more frequent but less lengthy O365 errors that there are some higher ups who get when this is not something you can fix and some you very much can't. Wishing strength to any "but it's our mail" and "but we bought the Claude" meetings that happen today.

Rebuff5007 10 hours ago [-]
There is a third option where it is a minor inconvenience and you learn to adjust and be productive in other ways.
palata 9 hours ago [-]
I agree that it's an opportunity to "do it the old way", as a way to preserve the skill. I actually would like to do that regularly, like half a day every week or something.

But I find it difficult to motivate it from the "productivity" angle. Like if I work for a day without an LLM today, it feels like I could go skiing instead, and the LLM will do what I would have done today in 10min tomorrow...

billbuild 9 hours ago [-]
Seriously, if the LLM was down and a dev submitted 10 PRs, I think it would raise some good/bad curiosity from the team with where things stands today.
voakbasda 4 hours ago [-]
I have couple dozen branches in flight at any time. A snow day is the perfect opportunity to catch up and get those pushed.
trollbridge 3 hours ago [-]
I'd be busy yelling at my Mac and trying to get things down with 3.8b-27b, but I'd still be getting things done.
Jtarii 8 hours ago [-]
And the LLMs of 5 years from now will do what current LLMs do in a day in 1 minute.
ionwake 8 hours ago [-]
just want to remind HN that it was as little as a year when I mentioned I used LLMs to do all my coding, totally hands off and people here found it a curiosity. One year later and its madness to even contemplate coding manually.

Im not complaining Im just pointing out how quickly the overton window is shifting.

ric2b 7 hours ago [-]
It's not the overton window, it's the capabilities of the models that have changed significantly in 1 year.
ionwake 7 hours ago [-]
I disagree. For me I had already been using hands off ocding for about 2 years by that point.
palata 7 hours ago [-]
> For me

Obviously that's not the case for everybody. 3 years ago, LLMs were very far from producing the quality of code I wanted in my domain.

cstever 7 hours ago [-]
Hey will you share your workflow and how you get LLMs to build correct things for you (or inspite of you)?
alex43578 6 hours ago [-]
If you’re using the latest models( Opus/Fable/Astra/ maybe Sol) and the default harness, along with a little guidance against the worst tendencies like over-writing tests, you really shouldn’t be getting the wrong things built. Like a coworker, you can’t throw it blind into a monster codebase without some guidance, but otherwise the latest models genuinely just work TM.
gibspaulding 6 hours ago [-]
Testing, testing, and more testing. In the project I'm working on right now, about 2/3 of the code is in one way or another related to testing. As a human coder, I'd never spend that much time on building test harnesses, automating regressions, writing unit tests, etc, but it's cheap when you can have a robot do it.
usr1106 6 hours ago [-]
So you assume code written by the agent canno be trusted? But how comes you are trusting the tests?
alemanek 3 hours ago [-]
At my work we still have a QA dept that runs the manual test suites before each release. We have also automated almost all of those manual tests and they gate every merge to mainline.

Things are still found but normally it is a new test case or an edge condition we don’t have an automated test for. The ever growing e2e suite has reduced the amount of regressions pretty drastically.

EDIT: I forgot to note that automated e2e tests were always the answer to improving quality. AI has just made it cheap to have several layers of test coverage.

voakbasda 4 hours ago [-]
To start, you make it a rule that every test must pass with the fix being tested, and it must fail if the fix is missing.
BonerWiener 5 hours ago [-]
You of course use another AI to test your tests, have you been living under a rock? /s
eocjiwnceidj 4 hours ago [-]
How are these /s posts even allowed? You contributed nothing to the conversation other than noise.
soon_to_be_sb 5 hours ago [-]
> One year later and its madness to even contemplate coding manually...

Seriously, why do people assume that what they feel should be how everyone else should be feeling?

edoceo 5 hours ago [-]
I think it's called Normative Cognition or something.

Like: I'm normal, and I do X. Therefore other normal people will also do X. It's the basis for in-group/out-group. We're all normal and they are not. (for some definition of normal).

BodyCulture 6 hours ago [-]
How are you handling all the errors that are hidden in code you can not understand?
greesil 5 hours ago [-]
More LLM, duh
cgio 6 hours ago [-]
I am sure it’s all so good that these incidents should not take more than 5 minutes to resolve. Don’t get me wrong, I am one of the people who would look at you suspiciously a year ago and only in the last year “saw the light”. You were ahead. But that doesn’t mean that at some point you will not overshoot. What we witness today we haven’t witnessed in some time. People also made horrible software but they enriched it with hole plugging hacks that made it run, mostly. AI may build better software but who is plugging the holes. At least today no one. In 1 or 5 years maybe AI. In the meantime, we need to plug some holes and they are not as easy to spot when we are not the ones who left them there.
Betelbuddy 7 hours ago [-]
You give it time....the same way Technical debt is code you chose not to clean up....your Vibe Debt for code you never understood in the first place... will come through.
ionwake 7 hours ago [-]
I dont think so man, it havent really had any issues that Ive noticed
Forgeties79 4 hours ago [-]
Have you asked the people downstream of your bot’s work?
Betelbuddy 7 hours ago [-]
5 hours ago [-]
edoceo 4 hours ago [-]
I heard: This I/O 7/1 ARM loan is so cheap let's buy more house.
recursive 3 hours ago [-]
Madness? I didn't think we'd gone that far...
TZubiri 2 hours ago [-]
So either I am mad or you are all mad, time will tell
dutchiesareok 7 hours ago [-]
"Overton window"? It's just developers being obtuse, short-sighted and slow.

It was obvious in 2023 and it is obvious now yet we still have people in denial even today. These people need AI to take over the world and threatening them with eternal suffering before they will change their minds even a bit.

jenniferhooley 6 hours ago [-]
May I ask why you care so much? Some people like hand-coding, they are free to do whatever they want, stop being so weirdly angry and controlling about what people do/how they do it.
palata 6 hours ago [-]
"It was obvious then, and it is obvious now: I am always right, I can predict the future, whoever disagrees with me is wrong"
sehw 6 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
palata 8 hours ago [-]
Yes, but my company does not pay me every 5 years. I don't know about you, but if I wait 5 years, I won't get a salary in the meantime.

If I wait until tomorrow, though, my company won't see the difference.

Jtarii 8 hours ago [-]
Sure, but depending on what your job is it can make the work feel even more meaningless than it was prior to LLMs.

All the work most people are doing it just going to be Ctrl+A deleted and replaced with someone else's LLM slop using Opus 8 in an afternoon.

All the shit people are building right now just feel ephemeral, like its going to float away on a breeze.

palata 7 hours ago [-]
Well it's getting philosophical. Even before AI, I would argue that the vast majority of software was meaningless. Actually the most successful software on Earth is hurting society and the environment, in exchange for profit for a few humans.

I don't know any software engineer who can say "if I was not doing what I do, society would get a little worse".

edoceo 4 hours ago [-]
The folk keeping Wikipedia running?
palata 1 hours ago [-]
Maybe not part of the "vast majority"? The idea of "the vast majority" is that it's not "everybody".
dutchiesareok 7 hours ago [-]
I console myself that while the products we make are useless and probably even harmful the activity itself just represents the world Geist familiarizing itself with computation and its possibilities and thus growing richer in the process.

In the worst case.. sometimes you learn what's best by experiencing what's not.

whoanoway 6 hours ago [-]
[dead]
tosapple 7 hours ago [-]
sad.
palata 6 hours ago [-]
Well it's not just software engineers. The majority of people in developed countries work in offices. And when you work in an office, it's highly likely that your work is not fundamentally useful.
utternerd 2 hours ago [-]
> And when you work in an office, it's highly likely that your work is not fundamentally useful.

This seems wildly inaccurate.

palata 1 hours ago [-]
Well, for some definition of useful of course. If you find it wildly inaccurate, maybe you don't have the definition that matches :-).
ifwinterco 6 hours ago [-]
You might be right in the end, but the middle of a massive outage probably at least somewhat exacerbated by LLMs, being debugged by (presumably) human software engineers is kind of a weird time to make this point
ponector 2 hours ago [-]
Like to burn billions of tokens? For sure!
samiv 6 hours ago [-]
Which is the way it should be if we were to share the fruits of our labour more evenly in society. Of course in practice the lions share of the product gains go to the capital class and the while they suck the surplus employees and the remaining workers have to carry the burden of supporting the ones now sidelined.
trollbridge 3 hours ago [-]
Snow day / skiing? Since this has affected our customers, and they're asking us for help, it means I was up all last night.

Ironically, I also had a change window last night to make some configuration changes to improve site reliability. It was a little challenging to get customer approval for both the cost & downtime for this. Let's just say... this will be a much more fun conversation to have next week, and for the account manager to have. "Yes, we'e proactively improved your reliablity, and here's why you were very smart to approve it and pay for it."

iknowSFR 7 hours ago [-]
Once you use a cheat code like “how do you turn this on?” It’s really difficult to finish the game without it.
reaperducer 6 hours ago [-]
it feels like I could go skiing instead, and the LLM will do what I would have done today in 10min tomorrow...

You sound self-employed.

palata 6 hours ago [-]
Or during that day where the LLM is down and I pretend to work, I feel like I am wasting my time for no reason.
jstummbillig 9 hours ago [-]
No, and that's also not necessary. We are reliant on our systems. The correct response is to harden our systems, not to foster some illusion of independence.

We can of course do that privately, for just the heck of it, but it's not the right response for anything at societal level. We simply need to work harder for more of these 9s

fhd2 9 hours ago [-]
What's wrong with failover? I don't use anything from Anthropic except their API. So when Claude is having issues, I switch to GLM 5.3 or something, doesn't take more than a few seconds.

I realise people on the monthly plans can't do it as easily. But I would say that as far as possible, having a plan B is the foundation of resilience.

AbsurdCensor 7 hours ago [-]
I think that's the 6 '9's problem. If you have something with 99% uptime, how much more are you willing to pay for 99.9% uptime, then 99.99% uptime. It's risk vs cost. Many places in the US do the same thing with things like say snow removal. Instead of having expensive systems ready to go for the 1-2 days of year of snow, you just shut things down for a day and slow down a little.

That doesn't work for all systems, and not for all businesses, but I would say the mass majority can 'suffer' 24 hours without email or an LLM without everything going up in flames.

atq2119 6 hours ago [-]
It's not only a 9's thing. If you can set yourself up to easily switch between providers, you also put yourself in a better bargaining position.

That's not always easy to do, but with something like inference providers it is, so why not kill two birds with one stone?

peterbell_nyc 8 hours ago [-]
Not hard on monthly plans either. I have ant, OpenAI and cursor (mostly for grok and gemiii). Taxonomy of model steps, each has a pre-tuned failover from a different plan and I just need to flip a switch when a lab goes down. Switch isn’t really required but occasional enough that I want eyes on and the system is only for my personal usage so outage until switch is acceptable…

Another reason to have good Evals…

jstummbillig 7 hours ago [-]
Failovers are nice, something that all reliable systems will provide, and, most notably, exactly the opposite of "just adjust".
Moto7451 9 hours ago [-]
You’re not wrong, but some companies swing real hard at the biggest players assuming they won’t all be down at the same time. My work has hard dependencies on 365 and Cloud Entra and only allows Claude company wide. Today is going to be a snow day since we couldn’t get into anything yesterday but we could at least get projects done using connections Claude had into various platforms that cached the data in 365.
bismanawaz 5 hours ago [-]
Did scheduled jobs failed loudly or stalled? My sessions just stalled and I did not know the outage until I send the followups.
mitxela 9 hours ago [-]
One part of hardening our (company, economic) system is not collapsing when our (technological) system isn't working right.
adastra22 9 hours ago [-]
There is always something that you can do that isn’t gated by the api. It isn’t critical path for literally everything. Go organize your expense reports or something.
peterbell_nyc 8 hours ago [-]
What do you think I use to organize my expense reports? If there’s something substantial you can do entirely without tokens that’s probably an opportunity for additional automation. But please have failover across multiple labs!
Applejinx 7 hours ago [-]
What do you think got ya here?
sandworm101 8 hours ago [-]
>> If there’s something substantial you can do entirely without tokens that’s probably an opportunity for additional automation.

Well, I just finished a meeting where we diagrammed out how change authority is to be structured as we split one group into two, which teams will retain what authorities. Zero claude involvement. Ten people in a room. Whiteboard and markers with a "scribe" taking notes. I am now editing old SOPs to reflect the decisions made in the meeting ... not something we would trust to claude or any other AI.

qrux 6 hours ago [-]
Reading the site guidelines, so I can be Claude-like and properly adjust my answer:

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

You are also a system. And, if you, as a system, don't run with Claude, you're not sufficiently hardened. People have made all sorts of helpful suggestions, like de-risking with multiple providers or just getting yourself a better Mac to run a local model.

The idea that: "No, no, we must have Claude, b/c it's the same as having a pen and paper!" is woefully naive. It's hard to attack the supply chain of pen and paper if you have a few extra reams and a few extra sticks. It's pretty easy for our geopolitical enemies to attack computers located far away from you, especially those systems are designed like fragile Rube Goldberg machines; furthermore, if we build an entire society (a system) to be productive only when we have LLMs, our issue isn't "insufficient-hardening". It's that the design is wrong.

nautilus12 8 hours ago [-]
Learned helplessness on full display here
johnnyanmac 9 hours ago [-]
>harden our systems, not to foster some illusion of independence.

Let me know when the tech industry workers stop doing this and gains some solidarity, and I'll join you in that sentiment.

Until then, I pretty much need to bolster myself on the idea that one day I will need to switch frameworks, IDE's, and even OS's themselves. I'm the ones guiding the tools, not vice versa.

>We simply need to work harder for more of these 9s

The only 100% thing I will guarantee is that these tools will align to the incentives of their leadership over time, not the customers using it. add 10 9's if you want, that just guarantees that humanity is the weakest link.

sillyfluke 8 hours ago [-]
>No, and that's also not necessary. We are reliant on our systems. The correct response is to harden our systems, not to foster some illusion of independence.

I'm not sure if this is your intent, but this paragraph reads like satire given current real world events.

The systems you mention in your second sentence are failing at the "right response" you mention in your third, which dictates that contrary to your first sentence alternative action is necessary.

You cannot harden systems you have no control over. Societal level assurances require law and goverment regulation and enforcement. It is juvenile to pretend otherwise. If we were talking about government services, then as a taxpayer you would have some avenue to enact change.

Your only option when dealing with private companies is to try and become anti-fragile as much as possible at a personal level or at the level of your own company.

Topfi 9 hours ago [-]
Is there not a single SaaS, cloud company or similar that your org depends on? No AWS, no Cloudflare, all internal mail servers, no Docusign, no outside inference, nothing of that sort?
polarsanel 9 hours ago [-]
And a 4th option where you have more than one AI provider
SkiFire13 1 hours ago [-]
And the 5th option where you are your own AI provider.
sevenzero 9 hours ago [-]
Finally having time to vacuum clean the office
philipwhiuk 9 hours ago [-]
Is it not worth getting a Roomba-type device?
yurishimo 9 hours ago [-]
Those things are also still pretty loud. And if you have a large shared office space, it might take hours for it to finish.

At our office we have a cleaning crew and when they come by to vacuum during office hours, everyone in our section takes a 5 minute coffee break and then it's done when we get back.

adastra22 9 hours ago [-]
You can schedule the roomba to run at 2am.
krawat3 8 hours ago [-]
Then at 2:30am it gets stuck as it eats a loose power cable.
kombookcha 9 hours ago [-]
Might not be a roomba-friendly setup. Tall doorsteps, multiple levels, lots of opportunities to get trapped on a carpet etc.
ultrarunner 6 hours ago [-]
They’re getting really good. In a few years no one will be hand vacuuming anymore.
robrain 3 hours ago [-]
Satire, I assume.

Our house has three carpeted steps between levels. Is there a Roomba that can clean those steps whilst cleaning the rooms on each of the levels? Or do I need one per step and the levels?

a) I’m not lazy enough to buy a Roomba. If I was, I definitely would be too lazy to nanny it around the house, lifting it up the three steps. b) When I am feeling lazy I hire a cleaner, who uses their own hand vacuum cleaner.

ultrarunner 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, I'm being facetious. I do wonder how far the analogy goes; is your willingness to apply effort a virtue that will atrophy? Will the satisfaction of applying yourself wane? Will the very real challenges to robot vacuuming (the steps) just be ignored long term, with the resulting loss of quality, or will we simply accept the new higher costs of cleaning floors? Will this all feel like a boon to productivity, or will the atrophied willingness to apply oneself cloud our judgement?

Time will tell.

popkkksidhd 9 hours ago [-]
It is but they don’t replace a good manual clean.
recursive 3 hours ago [-]
In this context, the metaphor is almost too thick.
andsoitis 8 hours ago [-]
Cleaning is therapeutic.
Betelbuddy 7 hours ago [-]
They need Azure to be up....
5 hours ago [-]
deadbabe 6 hours ago [-]
Why bother? You do a little bit of work, fine, but when Claude returns all that work will be done in an instant anyway, so unless you really need results right now, just wait.
billbuild 9 hours ago [-]
I can't imagine a construction worker saying, power is out, gotta find a way to be productive, I guess instead of the paint sprayer, nail gun and circular saw, we'll just find other ways to be productive with our hands. The same might apply to law, medicine, etc. I think we're almost there with software.
ghc 8 hours ago [-]
I understand what you’re trying yo day, but my family ran a construction company for generations (until my father retired) and they had contingencies for every adverse scenario to stay on schedule: Generators, battery-operated tools, hand-operated tools, heaters for pretty much anything you can think of for extreme cold, wind coverings, etc. I don’t remember them ever stopping work except for a trade union strike.

I’m pretty sure doctors don’t abandon their patients during a blackout either, or even a war for that matter.

Mature professions have procedures and backup procedures for pretty much every non-catastrophic situation.

JsonDemWitOster 8 hours ago [-]
Which begs the question is Software Eng'g/Development a mature profession? We've certainly been trying to especially in the last decade, arguably incentivized by ZIRP and VC money but the last few years?

I'm not just talking about tools either. You mentioned redundancies and contingency plans. Layoffs have stripped workforces to barebones headcounts. How can you have redundancy when one sick man-day reduces your eng'g team by 50%?

thesz 5 hours ago [-]

  > Which begs the question is Software Eng'g/Development a mature profession?
I think that correct question is "does use of external LLMs and agentic coding make Software Engineering less mature profession?"

For every sense of the word pair "less mature," including, but not limited to, "less responsible for consequences of actions."

qrux 6 hours ago [-]
No, it's not.
LouisSayers 3 hours ago [-]
> Generators, battery-operated tools, hand-operated tools, heaters

The equivalent for a dev is laptop, another AI, mobile hotspot and work at a cafe/library.

Microsoft being down is like having a contingency for a tornado.

svieira 3 hours ago [-]
> having a contingency for a tornado.

Sounds like a normal thing to do if you live in Kansas. And perhaps we are all about to start living in the software equivalent of Kansas?

dematz 8 hours ago [-]
Yes, I believe US hospitals are legally required to maintain and test backup generators in case power goes out.

Of course proof by analogy is silly anyways, my email going down is not nearly as bad as a patient's medical equipment going down.

officeplant 6 hours ago [-]
>Yes, I believe US hospitals are legally required to maintain and test backup generators in case power goes out.

And even that only does so much, it was 45 years ago but my Grandmother had a stroke on the operating table because the power went out and generators didn't kick on until someone could run and manually start them because the autostart failed.

bestatsiege_01 8 hours ago [-]
I have seen framing crews leave site when their compressor goes down.

Or maybe more prescient; machine operators going home on a cold day because they can’t get their loader started.

mitxela 9 hours ago [-]
I can.
squidmaster 9 hours ago [-]
[dead]
saithound 6 hours ago [-]
I may be misunderstanding what you wrote, but I think that says more about your imagination than about software. Yes, medics do improvise a lot to keep patients alive when the power is out, or when essential tools or medicines are not available. "Well, the power failed, so did the sustainable backup, let's everyone go home, today's ICU is a writeoff".
root_axis 5 hours ago [-]
Imagine not knowing how to code or write anymore.
JsonDemWitOster 8 hours ago [-]
I get what you're saying and I would wholeheartedly agree 5-7 years ago but after hearing Our Lord and Savior Claude Code as the solution to all our technical problems with ever increasing fervor and intensity for the last two years, I'm gonna take the cynical route, maybe fence on office chairs, not because my code is compiling, nor my prompt is running, but Claude is down management, what do you want me to do now, actually think?

From what I hear, the project managers are having a hard time sending emails anyway. We'll call it quits, winkwink.

trollbridge 3 hours ago [-]
Friendly reminder that Microsoft has been engineering Office 365 for a while so it simply cannot interoperate with a self-hosted e-mail server or a small hosting provider's e-mail platform.

Likewise, Anthropic / Dario has been busy proclaiming why nobody except themselves should be allowed to develop frontier AI, that we need "kill switches" in all AI models, and that we need a pause / slowdown on AI development because of the threat of open source models.

Essentially, they want complete lock in to their platform, so yes, it's very appropriate to ask questions when they can't meet basic 3 9's of reliability.

I was unable to do things beyond basic banking with my bank yesterday (and today) due to this outage. It just involves making changes to a merchant processing account for a nonprofit, but the point is that normal business activity grinds to a halt when it relies on an unreliable provider like this.

brookst 7 hours ago [-]
Sure, like if your company’s internet is down, you can start sending invoices to customers by paper mail. Just to prove that you’re not reliant on a technology that’s made work more efficient.
cnobody 8 hours ago [-]
tell that to people working in medical fields.
danaris 9 hours ago [-]
There's also the option where it doesn't affect you at all, because you do not rely on LLMs—or even just do not rely specifically on Claude—at all, and can easily do your job without ever noticing that it's down.
acedTrex 6 hours ago [-]
This concept is baffling to people who are terrible at their jobs.
gigatexal 7 hours ago [-]
Haha. Like people forgot how to develop before LLMs smh
leonbaixing 1 hours ago [-]
[dead]
samiv 9 hours ago [-]
People already forgot how to do their work without Claude?

That's a scary thought.

clivedup 9 hours ago [-]
I suppose I can't bring myself to do the drudgery of coding. I enjoy some of the problem solving but not the workflow frictions, spending 20 minutes due to a stupid typos, syntax fuckery, API lookups, etc.
xmcqdpt2 8 hours ago [-]
I've started noticing at $WORK that a lot of systems, procedures, etc. that fall under SDLC or devX are being made ever more onerous or complex because "LLMs can do it."

Some examples include requiring that someone addresses every review comment separately, or that a PR description be formatted a specific way, or that support requests have existing JIRA numbers etc. All of these make the developer experience much worse and would never fly if generating text (that no one reads) wasn't cheap now. A lot of this is cargo culting to make vibe coding feel more serious and entreprise.

The teams that have gone full specs driven development are not AFAICT more productive but good luck getting any change in without 10$ of API usage, even for a one liner. In some cases development is now slower with LLM than it was before!

RHSeeger 8 hours ago [-]
I've seen every one of the things you listed, sometimes all at the same company. None of them add much in the way of effort/time to do the work.

- JIRA ticket - audit trail

- PR format - easier for people to scan, and to make sure things aren't forgotten (you can even have the template inserted when it's created)

- address review comments separately - not sure what to say on this one because I don't understand how _else_ you would address them - I've always addressed each one individually

xmcqdpt2 8 hours ago [-]
> JIRA ticket - audit trail

The team I'm on prides itself in providing great service to our clients (other devs in the company). This includes responding to support requests even if the client isn't entirely sure how to ask or who to ask.

> not sure what to say on this one because I don't understand how _else_ you would address them - I've always addressed each one individually

What I mean is that it used to be enough for you to address PR tasks by changing the code and pushing the updates and marking the tasks as "resolved". Now in some projects at work you also need to reply to the comment explaining how the change you made addressed the task. The idea obviously is to stop LLM from just ticking tasks without actually doing the work, but it's onerous and based on distrust. Not trusting LLMs is warranted but those rules get applied to everyone.

9dev 8 hours ago [-]
> The team I'm on prides itself in providing great service to our clients (other devs in the company). This includes responding to support requests even if the client isn't entirely sure how to ask or who to ask.

So in that case, you would create the ticket on their behalf before getting to work, right? Because how would you track what you have been working on, if something has happened already in the past, if there is a pattern in support requests, or how well your team reacts to support requests?

macintux 6 hours ago [-]
> PR format - easier for people to scan, and to make sure things aren't forgotten (you can even have the template inserted when it's created)

The team I just left had a PR template that was probably 60 bullet points (never bothered to count, just grumbled). Certainly was not easy either to scan or to update manually.

clivedup 8 hours ago [-]
> A lot of this is cargo culting to make vibe coding feel more serious and entreprise.

Those examples sound like responses to being swamped with LLM PRs:

* "every review comment separately" [so the bot doesn't get a chance to miss it]

* "a PR description be formatted a specific way" [so the bot has guardrails]

* "support requests have existing JIRA numbers etc" [so we can have a chance of understanding the context]

> The teams that have gone full specs driven development are not AFAICT more productive

I suppose time will tell. It's difficult to generalise my experiences beyond my immediate team/company/industry.

> In some cases development is now slower with LLM than it was before!

Yes, pre-LLM I wouldn't sign up for formatted PR descriptions!

flohofwoe 8 hours ago [-]
Sounds like you're in the wrong job ;P
throwup238 8 hours ago [-]
That’s pretty common to the human condition.
frabjoused 8 hours ago [-]
If your job was shoveling, you were excellent at it, and then someone gave you a massive tractor that could lift 5 tons of dirt at a time.

Tractor breaks, you complain about shoveling again and someone says you’re in the wrong job.

breezybottom 8 hours ago [-]
If the tractor is intelligent and can operate itself, what exactly is your role?
meehai 7 hours ago [-]
In his analogy it's not; it can just lift dirt faster but you tell it which dirt to do.
diegolas 7 hours ago [-]
except the tractor still needs instructions and guidance
breezybottom 3 hours ago [-]
That's what managers are for.
clivedup 7 hours ago [-]
Not shovelling, for sure.

It's asking a tractor why the ground is full of dirt, despite having tractors to move the dirt, and tractors to confirm there is absolutely no dirt left before all the tractors can rest.

The tractor informs me that my tractors don't have permission to clean the dirt, nor see whether there is dirt, nor even distinguish that from "no permission to see dirt".

It found that faulty ACL was a known issue, and is a high priority bug for a team I've never heard of, and thousands of tractors are waiting for this.

One tractor found a webcam that overlooks the dirt patch, which bypasses the ACL, but that is now overloaded. Another tractor has setup multicast streaming to broadcast that camera, with low latency, hardware acceleration, and no single point of failure.

We're back in business.

Bypassing ACLs, multicast streaming, and using image recognition APIs for coding usecases are all against company policy, but nobody wants to pull the plug on any of this.

"Tractor, please add the multicast address to my AGENTS.md, and check my tractors have resumed."

"I've updated your AGENTS.md. The tractors have already cleaned the dirt. Here are images from the camera over the past 5 minutes, correlated with logs of the reporter tractors that reviewed progressed, to demonstrate the reports are now accurate too. I found an integer division bug, now fixed. Shall I schedule a tractor to oversee this every hour, by checking the camera?"

"Yes. And raise a blocking bug to fix all this up when the high priority bug is resolved."

8 minutes have elapsed.

kronodeus 8 hours ago [-]
[dead]
gpugreg 9 hours ago [-]
The codebases have been sloppified so only AI can understand it now.
thatsabadlook 9 hours ago [-]
Yep. This is what happens. Once you give up control it's mostly gone. The interesting thing is, if you maintain control, you can always choose to use llms here and there. But expecting humans to dive into 10000 file 40million line code bases branded todo apps isn't going to happen.
qrux 6 hours ago [-]
10k files, 40m LOC is rookie numbers for a todo app.

I recently asked Claude to edit a few targets of a Makefile. It decided: "OH BOY HERE WE GO LETS FIRE UP ALL THE B200S BABY" and went way deep adding tests...I stopped it when I saw something like: "Adding guards to prevent homebrew injection threat...". It had written an entire fucking build subsystem, probably larger than make. For a 5-line change.

sevenzero 8 hours ago [-]
You cant expect humans to jump at code if management fired half of the department due to the big AI productivity promise.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 6 hours ago [-]
If humans can't maintain a 10,000 file 40 million LoC code base, then three things are true:

1. We haven't learned anything from Google, who maintained Chromium and Android before LLMs

2. Your LLM is not generating code as maintainable as Chromium and Android (which are gigantic open-source projects that probably 99% of your devs have used)

3. Your company has no faith or interest in teaching devs how to maintain code nor how to build maintainable code

And that's pretty pathetic. It's solvable, but it's pathetic.

I will be amused if those 3 points lead to this conclusion:

4. If you aren't asking your LLMs to write maintainable code, and they aren't smart enough to do it by default, you are pretty quickly gonna hit a brick wall where your LLMs are also just slopping mud onto the big ball of mud. Then nothing will save you, if your leads haven't heard of "quality".

(Yes, this is projection. Yes, I'm late for work)

snoman 2 hours ago [-]
What does “maintainable” mean in a world where people aren’t even reading the code that gets merged?

There are companies telling their developers that they’ll never write code again. They manage agents now. It’s like asking PMs how maintainable the codebase is.

3 hours ago [-]
johnnyanmac 9 hours ago [-]
Really makes me wonder how much some programmers really understood programming 5 years ago if this is the reaction to a very recent knowledge center being down.

I suppose the equivalent would be Google search being down 10 years ago and being forced to read man pages again. Annoying but not literally "snow day" levels of lost productivity.

Izkata 6 hours ago [-]
I did an experiment with some co-workers around a decade ago, and one of the results was most of that group learning for the first time it was possible to train yourself to read code more easily. I was self-taught and had been doing it for so long, combined with some very specific pressures as a teacher's assistant for years, that I learned to read code in programming languages I understand about as easily as I can read English - something they had never even considered possible before.

I never did find out how they see code, but I have to imagine the right verb for them was "deciphering" instead of "reading"...

morkalork 8 hours ago [-]
Software documentation was a little different when it went through a publication process as a part of a larger waterfall. I was going to say better but I'm not sure about that part, but it was certainly verbose.
YeGoblynQueenne 5 hours ago [-]
To be fair most code in most shops I worked for since 2011 was crap with some notable exceptions. People came and went, teams forgot why code was written or what it did, or randomly rewrote stuff that just worked to replace it with crap that didn't, over-enthusiastic rookies wrote over-complicated code to impress their seniors, early code debt was calcified into impossible monstrosities that couldn't be refactored without bringing entire systems down, etc.

But I'm sure in a few years AI will be so good we won't have to worry about any of that anymore. After all, it's not like those systems learn how to code by reading our code, is it?

dutchiesareok 9 hours ago [-]
You doing your work manually is like going back to the 90s or further even. It feels like dropping into 6502 manual assembly mode. It's fun but it's not "work" anymore. I honestly think without AI my company is better off if we programmers sat around and talked like humans about business. Coding is for the clankers now.
thatsabadlook 9 hours ago [-]
No not really. Most the companies I know that haven't gone full vibes are doing great.

People can and do still write code. Especially in regulated industries. The internet is just full con artists and hype followers not thinking about the future at all.

r_lee 7 hours ago [-]
I write all my code with LLMs (Opus)

but I can say that, anyone experienced will notice how you really can't just "let them loose" on the codebase because they'll lose context, not understand the architecture, not have good vision/ideas about the codebase etc.

so I'm bottlenecked by following the code generation and then having to review and respond

and there's so many times where I go "wait but can't we just do x?" and then the model goes, "oh let me see.. yes we can"

if you were to just use agents w/o looking at code you'd have complete spaghetti in no time

maybe the future is that you embrace the spaghetti and just treat code as a black box where all you care about is the input/output

but my intuition tells me that it's not really viable yet. you'll take many steps forward and many steps back.

snoman 2 hours ago [-]
I think there’s lots more throwaway code out there than you are imagining.
canelonesdeverd 7 hours ago [-]
> You doing your work manually is like going back to the 90s or further even

Is going back to just a couple of months ago. Jesus.

qrux 6 hours ago [-]
ROFL--I suspect the previous commenter hadn't lived through the 90's, let alone coded in them. You tell 'em!
customguy 9 hours ago [-]
If all the professionals leave coding to clankers, and discussions about coding to people who code, I see nothing I don't love about that. Just like the web was more interesting before there was money in it, coding is more interesting without people who can't shut up about their work.
DotNetCorePowa 6 hours ago [-]
Don't mix "the HN crowd" with "coder crowd", then everything on this website is becoming clearer...

Most people people here do not code. They wish they do, but they don't.

diegolas 7 hours ago [-]
code without business is just a puzzle. an IT department exists within a business, it's not adult daycare.
customguy 7 hours ago [-]
That's exactly my point, programming isn't your IT department, "cool things that can be done with computers" isn't even on speaking terms with it, and the web is not a sector of marketing, either. Bores turn everything they touch boring, and now they're telling us we'll be left behind. And I'm like, YES, finally, can't wait, what can I do to accelerate it?
swiftcoder 8 hours ago [-]
If you are that reliant on LLMs for your workflow, then how do you not have any redundancy in place? Assuming you've have any kind of basic abstraction in place, swapping in API keys for a different provider should be a simple config change...
seszett 8 hours ago [-]
> If you are that reliant on LLMs for your workflow, then how do you not have any redundancy in place?

You could ask that question about the MS outage as well and million other things.

I suppose I can't understand because where I work our scale is small enough that we can have an actually resilient infrastructure and can stay in control of almost everything we need, and when you get bigger it's more difficult? I mean, even an outage from our email provider could be worked around in a matter of a couple hours at most.

I'm really not sure it's not just because most managers are clueless and shortsighted though.

embedding-shape 8 hours ago [-]
> we can have an actually resilient infrastructure and can stay in control of almost everything we need, and when you get bigger it's more difficult?

It's a culture thing, if it leans "engineering-heavy", you usually have contingencies, tests restoring backups and lots of other "goodies" that gets skipped if you don't lean that way. Microsoft and similar organizations been a sales-and-enterprise leaning organization for most of its life, so of course they're not gonna think about what happens when their "always online cloud tooling" goes offline when setting things up, it's much more important to finish things quickly and have a long list of features to be able to present to customers.

DaveChurchill 8 hours ago [-]
There are already entire companies out there without a single human who has any idea how their systems are implemented, let alone being able to manually fix them. This problem will only worsen with time.
spacephysics 8 hours ago [-]
Depending on company size and security posture (like mine), we only have one provider claude and the company outright bans all other ones, even local models unless approved via a lengthy process
swiftcoder 7 hours ago [-]
> Depending on company size and security posture (like mine), we only have one provider claude and the company outright bans all other ones

I get it, we had to sign separate HIPAA BAAs with Anthropic and OpenAI - but we did sign them both, if only to be able to have access to a wider array of models.

agumonkey 8 hours ago [-]
Unless these were meetings about how they would enable redundancy soon with the help of $llm
pimeys 10 hours ago [-]
Or if my DeepSeek provider goes down, I switch to the backup and continue working.
pilooch 2 hours ago [-]
This why every corp should have an always on fallback. Self hosted, single dgx spark qwen flash next level. It's like the 5G backup line on optic fiber router, because when it's down, you're out.
999900000999 9 hours ago [-]
If today is a stressful day it’s probably due to bad management.

I’ve been in this situation before, an external API is basically down and my managers solution is to blame me.

Didn’t last there too long.

7 hours ago [-]
BodyCulture 6 hours ago [-]
It is also a good occasion to better understand how the people leading your processes are prepared for independence.
streetfighter64 10 hours ago [-]
I think it should be fine for most people. Hopefully people don't rely on Claude for Ops, and if it's not Ops-related but just regular coding, I can't see why it shouldn't be able to wait a few days. I mean, even if Claude is down for a month, people should have enough competent developers to keep going, just at a slightly slower pace, right?
xmcqdpt2 8 hours ago [-]
> Hopefully people don't rely on Claude for Ops, and if it's not Ops-related but just regular coding, I can't see why it shouldn't be able to wait a few days.

IME if anything, people are relying on LLMs for ops more than for development! Devops convinced management that ops isn't actually all that valuable and that devs can just do it. IaC is usually a mess of boring YAML based syntax that no one in their right mind want to learn anyway. Learning Ansible doesn't feel like a transferable skill unlike learning a programming language or paradigm, and in most teams the quality of the IaC stuff (abstraction, code reuse etc.) never mattered much.

As soon as LLMs became good, generating IaC stuff was like the first thing to go full vibe coding, at least for me. I'm proud of my craft, I don't produce bad code with my name on it, I very carefully review all the code changes etc. Devops YAML stuff? Couldn't care less.

4 hours ago [-]
streetfighter64 6 hours ago [-]
Right, perhaps I used the wrong term. I'm referring to sysadmin stuff, like what MS got wrong in their latest outage. "DevOps" or YAML stuff is to actual Ops like Excel is to actual programming.
brabel 10 hours ago [-]
I really don’t feel comfortable merging a PR not reviewed by both of our AI reviewers. They catch so many bugs no human could. Seriously changed my view of code since we started using it in earnest. Bugs shall not pass. Without AI it feels like the Wild West again.
hi_im_greg_h 8 hours ago [-]
I don’t mean to be demeaning to you, but I am asking genuinely.

Why are you still employed? What do you bring to the table if you’ve off loaded so much to AI that you can no longer review a pull request…?

neutronicus 8 hours ago [-]
Just imagine it’s a static analyzer or something deterministic that you know reduces bug rate
olmo23 7 hours ago [-]
OpenAI just discovered close to 1000 LPE's in Linux, yet nobody is wondering why kernel developers are still employed or what they bring to the table.

What more needs to happen before you accept that human review does not catch all the bugs that AI does?

rglullis 4 hours ago [-]
> nobody is wondering why kernel developers are still employed or what they bring to the table.

For now. Wait until we start hearing things like "Mythos reverse-engineered Apple ARM architecture and implemented the whole roadmap of the Asahi Project".

popkkksidhd 9 hours ago [-]
Ditto. I can do it, and thankfully I’ll say AI mostly catches weird edge cases that often aren’t worth the trouble, but having a 2nd set of eyes has been great for quality.
streetfighter64 9 hours ago [-]
This mindset of "I don't trust myself to do it" is a bit (sorry) pathetic. I think one should realize that mistakes happen and to a certain extent, though professionals have lower rates of failure, everything is a tradeoff.

Some people have asked me, aren't you afraid you'll make a mistake if you fix your own car? Well, aren't they afraid their mechanic will make a mistake?

I think it's good to realize that AI (famously) also makes mistakes, and not to infantilize yourself to the level of not feeling "comfortable" trusting your own thinking.

Though, I do see younger people today whipping out their phone calculator to "double check" something like a 75% increase on 120.

brabel 5 hours ago [-]
Are you comfortable writing a C application that handles internet traffic on the internet? Well that’s the feeling I have now, if humans were reliable programmers there would be no bugs. AI is already able to pick up most mistakes, by humans and by machines. And I can tell you we all make a lot of mistakes! Be humble and use the tools at your disposal to make that better. This is not infantile, this is what a professional programmer has always done: we had static analysis, type checking, lots of tests. Would you ship code without those? If not, add AI review to your tool belt and you will see it’s probably more valuable than your other tools combined.
streetfighter64 4 hours ago [-]
> Are you comfortable writing a C application that handles internet traffic on the internet?

Yes, of course. Why wouldn't I be?

Everybody makes mistakes, and of course tools to prevent that are good. But what you're saying makes no sense, have you never written code without using type checking or static analysis?

Sometimes good enough is good enough, it's silly to think that a word without bugs is even possible. And besides, using LLMs to get there is a fallacy in itself, because it's a fundamentally non-deterministic system.

ricardobayes 9 hours ago [-]
Apologize for strong words, and sorry, nothing personal, but I find this mindset bizarre and even comical. Will we reach a stage where surgeons on the operating table will second-guess their experience and education and refer to an AI assistant?
GrayShade 9 hours ago [-]
It was technically surgery, but my dentist asked ChatGPT which antibiotic I should take.

Amusingly, I did the same and it told me there's no point in taking more than a single dose in my uncomplicated case (prophylactically).

mcherm 9 hours ago [-]
I sure hope so!

Imagine we had an AI system that could monitor 38 different patient signals (from blood pressure electrical activity in the brain) during a surgery and give the surgeon warnings whenever these drifted out of the expected range. It feels plausible to me that using such a system might improve surgery outcomes by, say, 20%.

I would prefer to have a surgeon who used the AI assistant rather than a surgeon who chose not to.

rambambram 6 hours ago [-]
Why should this be an AI system, and not just a software system?
neutronicus 8 hours ago [-]
You would also probably prefer a surgeon who forges ahead without it if the AI is down and you are going to die.

Claude is going to write a banger medical drama about this

swader999 9 hours ago [-]
In some amount of future time you won't let a human near your injured kid. How else does this play out?
johnnyanmac 8 hours ago [-]
Potentially. Probably not in my lifetime, but it's not impossible given how most sci-fi works depict it. You can argue we had a bit of that paradigm shift already with specialized machinery. I'm sure people can still do hand surgeries, but existing tools and sensors increase the precision.

it is a bit sad comparing that to "I can't check for bugs without an AI", though.

dutchiesareok 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, definitely. If an android nails your procedure while you doing it manually drops it into the low, say, 60s survival rate, what would you expect? I fully expect all human workers becoming dependent very quickly once the clankers get good enough.
streetfighter64 9 hours ago [-]
Unlike what many programmers like to think, programming is not a skilled work on the level of surgery. And besides, many doctors probably would benefit their patients by having AI assist in their work. This has already been experimentally shown for e.g. medical imaging diagnosis.
Topfi 10 hours ago [-]
Was viewing it more through the lens of less technical companies, Excel, Powerpoint, the backbone of traditional office work has become very model dependent in some companies I have seen and those are the owners and fellow employees that tend to struggle more in getting that the local IT guy can't fix this themselves vs developers.
iamflimflam1 10 hours ago [-]
Maybe we can actually spend some time reviewing PRs properly… or maybe not.
lovasoa 10 hours ago [-]
I'm sorry, but I forgot how to code. I'm not even sure where the curly braces are on my keyboard anymore.
dutchiesareok 9 hours ago [-]
You've got "upper management" written all over you.
Maken 9 hours ago [-]
Time to switch to Python then.
dango369 9 hours ago [-]
Just as you described. Snowday for some... I was caught in between snowday and stress today with these things. Got too used for claude to just do most things.

But at the same time was surprised I could still google and resolve things myself when I started thinking again lmao.

Betelbuddy 8 hours ago [-]
The most likely scenario, is their team of high achievers, deployed a massive pile of stinking technical debt, against the advice of the experienced folks who are constantly overridden.

On a normal environment the old Graybeards would fix it, after grumping on being taken away from playing with their latest Emacs config.

But this is the Valley, and we dont do experience only VibeOps. And half reading this post, are wondering if Emacs is a new frontend framework they never heard about....

codeduck 10 hours ago [-]
> but we bought the Claude

My soul just dry-heaved from laughter. Nice.

kristianc 9 hours ago [-]
I have fond memories of the “we’re a tech company, why can’t we get a video conferencing call going” and gently reminding them that reliable, synchronous, multiparty video conferencing was a lot harder than anything this company was trying to do.
kasperni 10 hours ago [-]
> O365

O364...

quietfox 10 hours ago [-]
I’ll have to steal this, sorry
oblio 9 hours ago [-]
Which makes you think, leap years already have downtime built in.
pletnes 10 hours ago [-]
...and counting
spystath 7 hours ago [-]
We are now in year 3-ish of LLMs going mainstream. Do people immediately forgot writing code manually the moment Claude was out? I understand the LLM acts as a multiplier but does coding immediately stop when Claude is down? My line of business is not in software development so this is a truly genuine question.
fergie 8 hours ago [-]
Anybody who has based their workplace on MS and Claude having 100% uptime kind of should take responsibility though
Forgeties79 3 hours ago [-]
The whole point of dumping all your infrastructure onto these companies in the first place is CYA. “Microsoft is down? Well that’s basically force majeure as far as I’m concerned.”

You get to pass the buck and management can’t be mad at you (sort of)

xmcqdpt2 8 hours ago [-]
As people used to say "No one was ever fired for choosing IBM."

If people lose enough money then they will come up with contingency plans etc. that may even work in the next outage! Absolutely no one will be held responsible though. The kind of management folks that made those decisions will just turn around and work on those contingency plans, and everyone (including themselves) will believe that they had been doing so all along.

At least that's my experience in big corporations.

4 hours ago [-]
goalieca 8 hours ago [-]
This hopefully means fewer 1000+ line PRs to review
gabucino 10 hours ago [-]
>check my local qmail, dovecot

yeah, couldn't be me

vonneumannstan 5 hours ago [-]
What scenarios are there where Execs need to have a "Claude is down" meeting? Surely we aren't far enough along in the singularity where this needs to happen anywhere yet.
cmiles8 9 hours ago [-]
The odd thing about these outages is that when they become so big that everyone is impacted then the severity almost drops, since everyone is impacted and thus just shrugs their shoulders.
s_dev 8 hours ago [-]
Too big to fail. In the 1970s in Ireland there was a 12 month period in the space of a 5 years, where no banks operated due to a huge strike by the workers. The country just ticked along with everyone extending IOUs to each other for when the banks came back online.

It's just one of those things, you'd think the economy or country would collapse effectively but things just tick on by they way they always did. Imagine the banks in the US closing for 6 months?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_bank_strikes_(1966%E2%80...

huijzer 9 hours ago [-]
Yup, it seems like there are a lot of options, but in reality lots of things have become severly centralized. (There has never been a better time to self-host by the way. My Forgejo instance for example is having practically no outages. For AI, use the open models via one of the competing providers.)
mitchitized 5 hours ago [-]
++1 on forgejo, also stood up a plane instance for better issues (and better alignment with business and product).
clivedup 8 hours ago [-]
I get the sentiment, but the biggest loser is Anthropic, because they aren't earning, and because this will motivate employers to seek alternatives/callbacks.

Their moat isn't large.

brazukadev 8 hours ago [-]
yeah no the biggest loser is the subscription users that won't get a reimburstment.
stingraycharles 8 hours ago [-]
In that case, the loss isn’t that big?
8 hours ago [-]
xamde 10 hours ago [-]
Many Claude session suddenly require a re-login, which first worked but now gives

OAuth request failed Temporarily unable to authenticate. Please retry.

Can this be fall-out from the Microsoft outage?

GCUMstlyHarmls 10 hours ago [-]
3. Sandbox escapes, misalignment and Outlook. What we're doing to prevent a re-occurrence. (anthropic.com)

94 points by cloudbreaker 22 hours from now | flag | hide | 64 comments

lionkor 9 hours ago [-]
And honestly, that's our mistake! We should have caught this inverted dependency earlier and didn't.
dcl 9 hours ago [-]
lol, lmao even
browolf 10 hours ago [-]
all the people who were using copilot are now trying to use claude and overloaded it?
meerita 8 hours ago [-]
Yes, it is. I logged in two days ago. Now I have to relogging again and I can't because of M365 down for 15hs.
justinclift 9 hours ago [-]
> Can this be fall-out from the Microsoft outage?

Copilot is down too, so it's probably Microsoft engineers trying to vibecode their replacement Azure infrastructure before the current garbage fire finishes burning out.

not_a_bot_4sho 5 hours ago [-]
Microsoft employees don't have Claude access
uxhacker 10 hours ago [-]
Yes, both are caused by it been Friday 13th.
stefan_ 10 hours ago [-]
Isn't magic email login link only great? What a shambles.
OJFord 10 hours ago [-]
I absolutely hate it, can't understand how that's all they offer (or Google SSO). It's bad enough when the password option is just really hidden and non-obvious (like Notion iirc), not having it at all is ridiculous.

I don't have that email account on my phone. So to log in, I have to open my laptop, get the 'magic' link, find a way to send it to myself on my phone that doesn't make a request (e.g. for an unfurl) expiring it, and then open it on my phone to log in. So magic.

vbezhenar 9 hours ago [-]
If you open login form and link on different devices, you'll get code to type, no need to send link.

So basically you start login on phone, keep page open. Open laptop, click on link on laptop and you'll get a code. You type that code on your phone and that's all.

OJFord 8 hours ago [-]
Even if that's correct, I should not need to use a second device to log in because of some asinine decision not to have a password field.

Solving problems that don't exist, and creating problems that don't need to.

vidarh 9 hours ago [-]
There are a number of clipboard sync apps, but personally I swear by simply having an E2E encrypted chat app on both your desktop and phone that lets you send messages to yourself. Serves both the clipboard usecase and as a general "notes to self" space.
OJFord 5 hours ago [-]
Sure. Shouldn't have to.
lima 1 hours ago [-]
You can add a passkey.
FinnKuhn 10 hours ago [-]
SSO logins don't work either.
ninjin-carh 10 hours ago [-]
Time to support passkey so we don't need to keep opening email to use a magic link?
EduardoBautista 5 hours ago [-]
The thing is, they frequently ask for a passkey to avoid the magic link but after setting it up multiple times, I have never once been asked to use the passkey.
AndroTux 10 hours ago [-]
Especially awesome when they don't allow you to change your email address ever again.
vbezhenar 9 hours ago [-]
I requested Mythos access and was granted it. But now apparently I need to use Google Sign In on my account instead of email link, as email link is not secure enough. But my email is not google, it's my custom domain. Now I don't even know what to do. I don't want to buy google apps or whatever it's called just to be able to use Google SSO with my custom domain; and I don't want to register completely new account for gmail either. It's a mess.
nicce 9 hours ago [-]
> Isn't magic email login link only great? What a shambles.

They just outsource the security into your email provider.

abyssin 9 hours ago [-]
Isn't the email provider almost always one of the links of the security chain? Then, why not accept it and simplify the chain?
nicce 9 hours ago [-]
Usually it is the weakest link in the chain, and you are encouraged to switch to proper 2FA or Passkey instead. So even if the email is compromised, other accounts are not compromised.
gregman1 10 hours ago [-]
Let the weekend start! Tech sabbatical is kinda enforced now =D
Tehnix 10 hours ago [-]
Is Claude on Azure? GitHub also seems affected, could seem like all of this is related to the huge Microsoft outage
IsTom 9 hours ago [-]
Doesn't Anthropic rent some hardware from them? Not all, but some and if that's out they could have capacity problems.
disgruntledphd2 10 hours ago [-]
I thought that they weren't, but maybe they have some instances running from there (as they've been doing deals with everyone).
nxobject 7 hours ago [-]
I’m not sure at this point whether that’s resilience through multiple providers or opening yourself up to more points of failure.
JulianWasTaken 10 hours ago [-]
Is there indication this is really a separate issue or just Claude not being able to reach Microsoft Entra for whatever periodic requests confirm the user is authenticated (and maybe this page even simply being automatic reflection that those requests are errorring frequently)?

Are people who don't use M365 experiencing issues here?

boutell 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, coworker on google account was impacted, same claude team plan. I am not, but I wasn't asked to reauthenticate today. Could be timing-related.

It seems resolved now.

akkad33 9 hours ago [-]
Yes I'm on Google
Animats 2 hours ago [-]
By "elevated errors", do they mean the system returns an error code, or the AI makes more mistakes?
seizethecheese 1 hours ago [-]
The status page says it was an authentication issue, so not the AI making more mistakes. (They already nerfed 5.5 a few weeks ago https://micjm.com/blog/get-ready-for-fewer-opus-5.5-em-dashe...)
dmix 6 hours ago [-]
Notably this brought MCPs down, which they call Connectors on the status page. Which impacts business customers using claude to access SaaS apps, not just coders.

Reminds me of when we built Facebook apps and were at the whim of the platform.

weird-eye-issue 5 hours ago [-]
Yep we just got a support email earlier about our MCP not working. When they tried to re-create the connector the UI makes it sound like our server is down or misconfigured.
dmix 4 hours ago [-]
Yeah I thought it was us at first before seeing it still worked in Codex.

Now we need to handle this stuff on status pages because this is not clear to the users.

julienmarie 10 hours ago [-]
time to spend family time
AndroTux 10 hours ago [-]
But my wife is offline, too.
booi 9 hours ago [-]
maybe try copying the prompt to gemini?
jleehn 5 hours ago [-]
This one got me lol
sourcecodeplz 9 hours ago [-]
Local is the way
theF00l 8 hours ago [-]
In spirit yes but aren't the hardware requirements massively out of reach for the average person, to have something even remotely similar to Opus 5.5?
AnotherGoodName 4 hours ago [-]
I wish someone would ship a reasonably high end GPU with a lot of highly parallel NAND storage attached.

Solid state NAND has 100x the latency of RAM but in parallel it's just as capable of the bandwidth to feed a gaming GPU as RAM since bandwidth scales. Much much cheaper per byte too. The latency isn't a blocker in inference because the weights needing to be processed are predictable. You can actually work around latency, and in general that only affects time to first token not total tok/s, which on local inference is much faster no matter what you do compared to the internet. For local AI all you need is storage/memory bandwidth and that's actually perfectly scalable for any storage mechanism.

The bottleneck today to running Kimi 3.1pro at home is storing the weights in a way that you can get them into and out of the GPU for processing fast enough. A good gaming GPU can process the ~100billion active weights fast enough for a reasonable tok/s for a single user but we cannot get the weights from either system RAM or high bandwidth storage into and out of the GPU fast enough atm and we can't keep the weights in GPU RAM because that would cost too much. The way it's done in datacenters is just to have many GPUs working together and all the weights always in GPU RAM across a cluster of GPUs.

The datacenter approach of all weights in RAM always is great for serving 1000's of people at once, each with 100's of tokens per second but for home use it's a waste. You'd never individually maximally use a cluster of GB200's.

So for home use what we really want is a lot of high bandwidth storage of any kind (it can seriously be solid state NAND, just needs a 10x wider interface for bandwidth) hooked up to a moderate amount of compute. That'd get us Kimi on a single card.

I'm going to assume someone will make it at some point in the near future. At that point we're free!

pllbnk 7 hours ago [-]
If all the hardware innovation didn't get stifled and the prices didn't explode because of all the circular investment deals, a person who needs to step foot in the frontier model territory with local hardware for ~$10k. You could argue that in that timeline frontier model development could have happened differently, but my point is that if the hardware starts catching up again at some point, people who need it, might be going local.
caned 8 hours ago [-]
Does the average person need Opus 5.5? Qwen3.8-27B fits nicely in 32gb VRAM...
TiredOfLife 5 hours ago [-]
Does the average person needs tasty well prepared meal? Some beans and rice is all you need.
jnovacho 7 hours ago [-]
Good thing I have stockpiles full of GPUs with 32GB VRAM! /s
tornikeo 8 hours ago [-]
currently yeah. this and next year the best the AI labs going to get. after that, I think local hardware will catch up.
_heimdall 8 hours ago [-]
I heard I'm not even supposed to own RAM, its all meant to live in data centers.
I_am_tiberius 9 hours ago [-]
I hope they at least give a free reset
Calazon 2 hours ago [-]
I wouldn't mind a deadline extension for using Fable 5.2 on the Pro plan.
worik 1 hours ago [-]
I looked at the outage notice

https://status.claude.com/incidents/nn11wk485zfn to be clear

I was using Claude Code Friday morning, and I wanted to know what the issue was and how I might have been effected

I do not know, after reading their notice

All the more reason to hurry up our move away from Anthropic.

Claude Code is good. But if when it has problems it issues notices like this, being good is not enough

If they expect to be as valuable as they seem to feel entitled to, they must do better

What a shame

slekker 10 hours ago [-]
Previous outages of GitHub, AWS and so on didn't get that much traction.

I guess anecdotal but people nowadays are incredibly addicted to LLMs, to the point where they cant or dont want to work when there's an outage

K0balt 9 hours ago [-]
It’s alarming how much of the project knowledge ends up in agentic workflows… although that information is technically on your computer, how long will it take you to find it and unravel the string?

Time to warm up the GPUs I guess, since I can’t be fucked to do it myself lol. Thank gods for qwen flash next and DeepSeek!

TBH the only reason I’m not working mainly with flash next anyway is that I can only run inference for one agent at a time on my setup.

AndrewSwift 10 hours ago [-]
Yep, one instance can't connect, and one instance seems to have crashed but is pretending to keep working (Toulouse, France)

3 minutes later... I can reconnect, and the "crashed" instance woke up.

yodon 8 hours ago [-]
> A fix has been deployed for the issue affecting Claude services and we are monitoring for recovery. > Nov 13, 09:58 UTC
weird-eye-issue 5 hours ago [-]
Our application logs show zero errors from their API today
mchivelli 10 hours ago [-]
I suspect something larger at play happening atm
makaveli26 10 hours ago [-]
Jensen's plan B
K0balt 9 hours ago [-]
I suspect he already used up all the plan B in his immediate vicinity. I feel for the dude, he clearly let shit go to his head. I knew things weren’t going well for him when he put on the leather jacket. It’s basically putting on the “bad boy” costume. If you haven’t purified your soul before donning the jacket, it will consume you, like the one ring.
bloopernova 9 hours ago [-]
We can just pretend I pasted a funny version of the "One Ring to Rule Them All" verse here. I won't subject y'all to generated stuff that bad.
10 hours ago [-]
darkwi11ow 10 hours ago [-]
Yeah got 403 cloudflare attention required, but was able to finish session. Switching to Codex for a while
armchairhacker 7 hours ago [-]
Apparently it was resolved in 2 hours.

That seems faster than usual, compare to Outlook (down for a day) and GitHub. It's still embarrassing for a heavily-relied service, but better, and I wonder if Claude (or another LLM) helped diagnose and fix the outage?

isaacdl 7 hours ago [-]
It's back down again, new incident: https://status.claude.com/incidents/34wq7gxnxvvm
armchairhacker 7 hours ago [-]
I still wonder if LLMs were used to "resolve" the first incident...
lnenad 6 hours ago [-]
What's there to wonder? The premiere AI company is bound to dogfood their product to help with the main problem space their product is meant to tackle.
clivedup 7 hours ago [-]
There's not many LLM provider features that operate across multiple accounts.

This allows their architecture to be simpler, and scale more easily.

GitHub meanwhile is highly relational, across repos and users, and provides real time updates over all this. Outlook is similar.

cheptsov 6 hours ago [-]
It's not resolved. For example, connectors do not work, e.g. Google Docs, etc.
nxobject 7 hours ago [-]
I look forward to the PR video “How we used a swarm of agents to fix an outage issue”, right after “How we used a swarm of agents to identify thousands of potential drugs for Alzheimer’s”.
armchairhacker 6 hours ago [-]
Judging by recent AI exploits and sandbox escapes: “how we used a swarm of agents to fix someone else’s outage”.
cornfieldlabs 10 hours ago [-]
It is back now
orbis-tertius 10 hours ago [-]
Maybe Cloudflare related? There were some (possibly unrelated) outages on CF around the same minutes
domh 10 hours ago [-]
Yeah I'm getting a CF error on /login but the session still appears active if I just try again?
balaj 9 hours ago [-]
Seeing the same errors. Might be linked to Microsoft.
_jx 10 hours ago [-]
Still down (Italy) from about 30mins ago.
singularity2001 10 hours ago [-]
it happened right after the upgrade of the desktop app. Same for anyone, or was it coincidence?
disgruntledphd2 10 hours ago [-]
Coincidence I'd say as I haven't updated.
damsta 9 hours ago [-]
AGI is here
wolfi1 6 hours ago [-]
do they have infrastructure on azure?
dr_dshiv 10 hours ago [-]
Yep Dubai/Germany
mr_roboto 9 hours ago [-]
This stuff is so new and wild west at the moment that in our company everyone is using it completely differently. 20% of the devs have 30x output and are doing everything with Claude, 10% won't touch it, the rest are in some weird in between where they use it for some things and not other things which it is perfect for. We have managers that suggest just going back to doing it by hand when there are outages, which is the most laughable thing in the world to me now. It is incredible to watch this miracle tech hit so fast and have everyone's understanding of it be so different across the board.
clivedup 8 hours ago [-]
Yeah, it's an exciting time.

And jarring. When interacting with colleagues in teams that I haven't worked with, there's an uncomfortable "where are they on AI...", which will decide whether I have to dial down my usage, or whether we can both let it rip.

In mere months.

white_dragon88 9 hours ago [-]
[dead]
mrbombastic 7 hours ago [-]
it is very funny to me that on a story about a major outage at one of the companies pushing the "software is solved" narrative the suggestion to slow down and do things more carefully is laughable, I think we officially need to retire calling ourselves engineers.
gramstrong 49 minutes ago [-]
Software developers shouldn't have ever called themselves engineers to being with.
mr_roboto 6 hours ago [-]
Did they stop being mathematicians when calculators were invented? Architects when cad software came along? They produced way more while having to do a lot less. AI is a tool that empowers me to do the same job at an easy 30x speedup and this is just getting started. I've produced more in the last year than I have in the last 20. I'm more of an engineer with these tools than I ever have been.
mrbombastic 5 hours ago [-]
did mathematicians get pressured to stop reviewing their work? skip verification because it was slowing down shipping? do things outside their job description (cough design, product management) and stop collaborating with their colleagues because "velocity" demanded it? If you are doing the same job as yesterday with the same safeguards 30x faster good for you, keep calling yourself an engineer. If you are like me and a lot of others out there pushing slop out the door with more and more incidents weekly and forgetting what good software dev looks like, stop pretending.
mr_roboto 5 hours ago [-]
It probably depends on the job. There is huge variance across the industry as far as what people are working on. I don't work with top talent and I'm very happy with the results compared to human coworkers. I've found the secret is detailed architecture plans in advance. These models are in their infancy and if you aren't happy with the output yet I'd wager they catch up to your needs faster than expected.
zahlman 4 hours ago [-]
> Did they stop being mathematicians when calculators were invented?

After learning to use a calculator, did it promptly become laughable to do arithmetic by hand (or even in your head) if yours broke or otherwise became unavailable?

mr_roboto 4 hours ago [-]
On any scale that matters, absolutely. You think a physicist or accountant is going to start hand crunching their 800 equation spreadsheet when their laptop dies, laughably absurd. You think I am going to spend several hours writing a couple hundred lines of code when I'm now normally doing several thousand per day, laughably absurd.
cyclopeanutopia 9 hours ago [-]
[dead]
_jwr 10 hours ago [-]
Well...
igleria 10 hours ago [-]
what a friday, huh?

currently running a Claude model through github copilot CLI. Pretty odd given the two ongoing outages.

aiaco 10 hours ago [-]
faaaaahhhh
devpras 10 hours ago [-]
works now!
gpulogy45 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
CervelloAI_Stor 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
anthypahq 10 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
peterschmidt 7 hours ago [-]
[dead]
LovingPointer 10 hours ago [-]
[dead]
ivalice 10 hours ago [-]
[dead]
smallerfish 9 hours ago [-]
I used claude for the first time in months yesterday (have been using codex, ran out of resets this week). I had picked up from general consensus comments that 5.5 had fixed the opus 5 issues, but that's far from the case. Its "personality" is still smartass, know it all, and whiny. It disregards specifications in tickets if it thinks it knows better. It complains about the size of tasks when it reads task descriptions. I've gotten used to codex, which just jumps in and does stuff (which of course carries its own set of issues). I have no love for Altman, but their product is still better at the moment.
ramraj07 9 hours ago [-]
The post was about their uptime. How is this relevant.

Even if it vaguely is, why do people think subjective anecdotal thoughts about which model is better are a good discussion topic. If there’s an objective evaluation idea that would be useful.

I run evals for a very specific domain. Opus 5.5 is still the industry leader (we can’t use Fable class yet).

smallerfish 9 hours ago [-]
> How is this relevant.

It's relevant because there's only so many "yep it's down" comments that are interesting. They have a technology problem which isn't fixed. They're about to go IPO. Their marketing is clearly still working, but subjective experience with both contradicts the marketing.

> I run evals for a very specific domain.

What do your evals test for?

greenchair 8 hours ago [-]
We come here to share our experiences with tech so yeah it is relevant. His anecdotes are just as valid as yours.
brazukadev 8 hours ago [-]
Let's just post company names as title then, so people talk about whatever problem they have with the it, not the thread topic.
alexgoodhart 9 hours ago [-]
I mean, yeah I agree. Claude is a condescending experience
bob1029 7 hours ago [-]
Anthropic's products appeal to a certain kind of audience. This is all very much as intended.
sznio 7 hours ago [-]
manager thinking

you'd rather have a subject that does exactly as told, or that does what's right?

yardenshoham 10 hours ago [-]
Also Microsoft 365. I wonder if it's related.

https://status.cloud.microsoft/m365/

newsclues 10 hours ago [-]
Did they move away from oracle dc yet?
bjakes 10 hours ago [-]
The rouge Anthropic agents (on AWS servers) are hacking Microsoft so Anthropic has had to pull the plug
altern8 10 hours ago [-]
I thought it was Microsoft 364, now..?
bita_nidir 10 hours ago [-]
I think it's only fair to add decimal points:

Office 364.3789278392647

(estimated)

0x20cowboy 10 hours ago [-]
Microsoft 364
K0balt 9 hours ago [-]
Two and a half nines
sparse-Matrix 10 hours ago [-]
Microsoft 363 and counting.
vkgcr 10 hours ago [-]
If Claude is down and can't be used to debug outages in Claude, is it recursive self-sabotage?
netdevphoenix 7 hours ago [-]
And this company, about to start its IPO, wants to make the majority of the world's office workforce dependent on them when they can't even handle their current load.
LauraMedia 10 hours ago [-]
This explains why I was logged out forcefully. Funnily enough, due to the Microsoft outtage, I also cannot log back in.

Well, it was my employers wish that we devs incorporate more AI, and we did. It's their misfortune now.

jofzar 8 hours ago [-]
Going the other way, Claude duet has just gone into invite beta, people get 3 invites and inviting someone else gives them a month of pro, I saw on Twitter a link every minute about 3 hours ago (can't use because I'm Australian) I wonder if they are just getting DDoSed from their own invite spam?
epistasis 7 hours ago [-]
I've been using Claude Duet for a while, and usage for similar chat inputs seems to be > 10x regular Claude chats. I've never hit a weekly quota, but did on Wednesday. My quota reset on Thursday, and I'm already at ~60% of usage.

Depending on how widely this was deployed, perhaps that's affecting usage too...

bita_nidir 10 hours ago [-]
It's catch 22 now. This is related to MS outage, and MS can't fix it now since all their Claude Code agents aren't working. Long weekend!
K0balt 9 hours ago [-]
Lmfao I know this should not bring me joy, but it does. Is this the great filter? AI builds AI. Society becomes completely dependent on AI. It goes down, no one can fix it. Total chaos ensues.
bita_nidir 5 hours ago [-]
Great filter? You might be on to something: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50482379
8cvor6j844qw_d6 10 hours ago [-]
Claude, Outlook. Need GitHub to join in for the trifecta.
singularity2001 10 hours ago [-]
if you want to keep working, Grokbot offers which feels like half the intelligence and half the quota for the same price.
diehunde 6 hours ago [-]
Trillion dollar company going public next week ladies and gentleman!
bodge5000 7 hours ago [-]
Looks like when people said "If you don't get on the AI train you'll be left behind" they were right. They're all getting a day off and I'm not.

(I know CC =/= AI, but put that aside for the sake of the joke)

Y-bar 6 hours ago [-]
Unable to log in for two hours thanks to only allowing single-factor email with magic links instead of also allowing normal things like password+TOTP.

Was pretty nice though, less stress.

kunver 10 hours ago [-]
Reliability is still not solved, I guess.
udfalkso 6 hours ago [-]
How do the people at Anthropic fix Claude without Claude? Are they using OpenAI models? Coding and analyzing logs by hand??
anilakar 6 hours ago [-]
It didn't help that my login expired and the only way to log in was via an email link... sent to my company address, hosted by Microsoft.
hollowturtle 8 hours ago [-]
Should you receive a salary if you can't work without AI? If a crane stops working for a construction worker it doesn't stop at all
packeted 10 hours ago [-]
And..... we're back!
FinnKuhn 10 hours ago [-]
It really is Friday the 13th today with outlook and now Claude both being mostly down. I wonder if this is related though. Either way not going to be a great ad for their IPO.
jagermo 9 hours ago [-]
Jensen really kept a lot of things running himself, huh.
epsteingpt 8 hours ago [-]
They will reduce the frequency of these transient errors if the IPO price goes back to $2T from $1T. Or else...
8 hours ago [-]
rootnod3 2 hours ago [-]
If y’all can’t cope without Claude, y’all need Jesus. There’s the “can boost my productivity “ and then there’s the “Claude takes the wheel and my brain is off”.
jttnr 9 hours ago [-]
Maybe all the Copilot monkey now switched to Claude, causing human initiated DDoS on Anthropic.
steveBK123 8 hours ago [-]
Guys running their own email servers & local models having a hell of a week right now
handwoven 9 hours ago [-]
Sorry guys, an agent swarm was misbehaving, and Dario had to press the red button his desk.
FacZap 9 hours ago [-]
I thought software was solved?
nelox 10 hours ago [-]
Claude is taking over. It has begun.
setnone 10 hours ago [-]
what a fun day! is claude down because it's being used/abused to fix microsoft issue?
small_model 9 hours ago [-]
Looks like a new Chinese model has went rogue and taken down MS and ANT /tinfoilhat
creimers 10 hours ago [-]
Kind of reminds me of the days when work was ground to a halt because stackoverflow was down.
bjakes 10 hours ago [-]
The rouge claude agents have hacked Microsoft so Anthropic is pulling the plug
hologramofham 9 hours ago [-]
Turns out AI was just a bunch of Microsoft 365 Excel spreadsheets.
lleontop 10 hours ago [-]
claude is not responding anybody remembers the git command to push?? :D
MaxikCZ 10 hours ago [-]
Default shorcurt is CTRL + ALT + F4
Maken 10 hours ago [-]
Enjoy resolving the merge conflicts by hand.
bloopernova 9 hours ago [-]
gp

well, it works on my machine.

throw1234567891 10 hours ago [-]
rm -rf /
aucls1 10 hours ago [-]
rm -rf .git

try this one /s

nsoonhui 10 hours ago [-]
It's 6pm Friday here when Claude went down. Nice! Time to rest.
throw1234567891 10 hours ago [-]
Thoughts and prayers.
hihuhihihuhi 9 hours ago [-]
I hope it stays down for the day so my hack "colleagues" flail like imbeciles for the lulz. And I won't have to review their "work" because literally all they do is prompt dear CLAUDE and have everyone read their slop.
raffael_de 7 hours ago [-]
seems like grok is also currently experiencing all sorts of mysterious issues.
InsideOutSanta 10 hours ago [-]
Well, now the Outlook outage will never be fixed.
dools 9 hours ago [-]
I love how Claude having "elevated errors" is #1 on HN after 1 hour, Microsoft outlook global outage has been below the fold for like 12 hours.

Jim Cramer has $MSFT as "DON'T BUY"

qlte 4 hours ago [-]
Because people are tripping over each other to post the same "agent swarm hit RSI and takeover beginning??" on the Anthropic post.
vconnor 10 hours ago [-]
Microsoft in shambles.
itopaloglu83 10 hours ago [-]
Microslop is now becoming micro availability. I’m so curious about the postmortem of this outage.
orbis-tertius 10 hours ago [-]
can someone ask codex to fix claude code please
litshord 9 hours ago [-]
who needs circular financing when you can have circular system dependencies and circular financig?
underseacables 8 hours ago [-]
Surely this is a coincidence
billyjones101 10 hours ago [-]
another day, another anthropic outage. Yes, this is because of Microsoft, but they do seem to have a significantly higher amount service disruptions compared to the other LLM providers.
franz_matt 10 hours ago [-]
Their November uptime was very solid so far https://status.claude.com/uptime
dude250711 10 hours ago [-]
They should give out like 3 proper banked resets for this.
6d6b73 8 hours ago [-]
"I want to make $1BLN by the end of the week. Copy MS365. Make no mistakes."

And now we have Claude and MS365 down.

nalekberov 10 hours ago [-]
Now imagine entire nation depends on Claude to do their job.
K0balt 9 hours ago [-]
Look out the window… tires burning in the streets, widespread looting, led by people in suits. This is the great filter.
rvz 9 hours ago [-]
Maybe Claude can help the engineers at Microsoft with the Outlook 365 outage. [0] Oh wait...

6 Hours later after this comment [0] Claude also went down. It's now up to the human engineers (if there are any) to fix this outage.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50478409

panny 10 hours ago [-]
Jensen's dead man switch! lol
lofaszvanitt 8 hours ago [-]
Rache Bartmoss
small_model 9 hours ago [-]
Ha, Jensen becomes CEO of Huawei and they catch up instantly.
8 hours ago [-]
devpras 9 hours ago [-]
lmao
9 hours ago [-]
imjackofitall 10 hours ago [-]
[dead]
ath3nd 9 hours ago [-]
[dead]
mmoustafa 9 hours ago [-]
dead internet. dead internet!
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